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View Full Version : Funzio, L Fizzle, and CCM - The Effects of Skill Points



Nicholost
04-18-2012, 05:12 PM
Funzio, L Fizzle, and CCM,

We need to have better insight into the effects that attack and defense skill points have on the game. I think a lot of us, myself included, are half-assing the ATM event because no one knows how these skill points work. We pretty much know they are not additive, meaning 40 attack skill points do not add 40 to your attack. But what what we need are hard numbers.

The advantage to previous events is that it's clear what "+1 RP/attack" or "reduce upgrade times by 25%" means, but without any knowledge into how attack and defense skill points work, there is no incentive to get 10 credit cards. That means no incentive to spend gold.

I am all for mystery in this game. I think the random variable that is applied to fights and robberies is a good example of a mystery that should stay mysterious. But attack and defense skill points are something that users have the ability to modify, but there is no knowledge as to what they do. That's like putting a big red button in the middle of a panel with no label. Now that there is an event that rewards lucky players with 40 attack skill points, I think it's time to come clean about how attack and defense skill points work.

Santa
04-18-2012, 05:13 PM
Yes, please tell all your secrets. :)

Nah, JK. I also want to know this information.

Nicholost
04-18-2012, 05:17 PM
Yes, please tell all your secrets. :)
It's not that we want to know their secrets. It's that attack and defense skill points shouldn't be a secret in the first place since they are two variables that users have control over. Unfortunately, no one knows what they do other than "add attack" and "add defense." What we need to know, is the effect these values have. Without this knowledge, there is no incentive to get the prize at 10 credit cards.

jmeijer
04-18-2012, 05:18 PM
They should've made it 40% increase in attack. Then, it would be clear what the advantage is.

Ghost818
04-18-2012, 05:23 PM
Totally true bro, I'm with you on this one ( as always )

I don't mean to sound pessimistic but I fear this is one of those Cant Say answers -__-, however I hope this thread changes that answer regarding this topic.

+1 Nose-picking.

Joeycool
04-18-2012, 05:28 PM
I'm still going hell for leather at the event.

I'm only using in game cash.

So If I get the Bank Buster its still a cracking reward for free!

Att 344 and def of 197! Pretty cool. Plus 40 extra attack points (what ever they actually do) is pretty top draw!

L Fizzle
04-18-2012, 05:29 PM
I'll ask...but understand that they probably won't even tell me. :P

Joeycool
04-18-2012, 05:30 PM
I'll ask...but understand that they probably won't even tell me. :P

God Fizz! Who wears the pants in that office!!??

Santa
04-18-2012, 05:41 PM
Hopefully everyone wears pants at work...

mnju_03
04-18-2012, 05:41 PM
Hopefully everyone wears pants at work...

HAHAHAH! Good one...

L Fizzle
04-18-2012, 05:42 PM
I LOL'd....at both of you.

You know I'll do my best to find out and get you guys everything you want and more. :P

mnju_03
04-18-2012, 05:43 PM
I LOL'd....at both of you.

You know I'll do my best to find out and get you guys everything you want and more. :P

Did you just promise me "everything" and "more"!?

I took a screen picture, it's legally binding now!

Santa
04-18-2012, 05:43 PM
Wait, I was being serious...

Did I miss something?

Joeycool
04-18-2012, 05:45 PM
Hopefully everyone wears pants at work...

It is a phrase Santa. It means who is in charge or who makes the decisions. In the past this would always be men... which is why they say "wears the pants" as women traditionally wear skirts.

L Fizzle
04-18-2012, 05:46 PM
Oh.....You know what I mean.

BTW...there's an email chain going about this thread in the office now. I'm trying to get you answers!

Everyone be on your best behavior and make me proud. :)

mnju_03
04-18-2012, 05:46 PM
Oh.....You know what I mean.

BTW...there's an email chain going about this thread in the office now. I'm trying to get you answers!

Everyone be on your best behavior and make me proud. :)

Always am... :D

Santa
04-18-2012, 05:49 PM
Ohhhhhhhhh. Well in that case, it WAS a joke! :)

@Fizzles

Say hi to the team for me? I mean like, specifically mention ME? I wonder what they would say...

L Fizzle
04-18-2012, 05:51 PM
They know who's on the naughty and nice list.

jmeijer
04-18-2012, 05:52 PM
Ohhhhhhhhh. Well in that case, it WAS a joke! :)

@Fizzles

Say hi to the team for me? I mean like, specifically mention ME? I wonder what they would say...What do you want to say to Funzio.. Christmas man said hi? :p

jobadass
04-18-2012, 05:53 PM
Great Post. I have both my attack and Defense around 30. I only increased them early on and stopped because I had no idea what the advantage was. I'm sitting on a bunch of skill points now.

Santa
04-18-2012, 05:54 PM
How about...

"Hey team. That annoying kid, what's his name? Oh yeah, Santa. Right. Yeah, he says "hey"..."

Nicholost
04-18-2012, 06:16 PM
Thanks, Ms. Fizzle. I appreciate you looking into this for us.

Also, guys, I'd like for this thread to stay on-topic so we can reference back to it in the future.

mnju_03
04-18-2012, 06:17 PM
Thanks, Ms. Fizzle. I appreciate you looking into this for us.

Also, guys, I'd like for this thread to stay on-topic so we can reference back to it in the future.

And I'd like to win the lottery...:P


Just joshing ya'll... I agree totally. :D

sez
04-18-2012, 06:17 PM
Well done Nicholas, big thanks for helping the ENTIRE CC community and even all the lurkers.

sez
04-18-2012, 06:20 PM
And I'd like to win the lottery...:P

Stop, respect the fact it most likely took Nicholost a good deal of time to post this and awnsers might come of it.

Santa
04-18-2012, 06:40 PM
You got it. :)

The attack and defense points discussion has been going on even before I joined the forum. Seems like a good time to spill the goods now that the event reward gives a +40 attack bonus.

Bopper
04-18-2012, 09:01 PM
Thanks, Ms. Fizzle. I appreciate you looking into this for us.

Also, guys, I'd like for this thread to stay on-topic so we can reference back to it in the future.

+1 on this. As a mid-level "free" player who is debating on breaking open my piggybank during the next gold sale to get more out of the game this information would be very useful.

Jill
04-18-2012, 09:13 PM
They know who's on the naughty and nice list.

That would be an interesting list to see ..... cc me on that mail LOL

schnuffler
04-18-2012, 09:25 PM
I'm definitely keen to find out what skill points contribute to the attack / defense equations. I know Funzio have never given this information, but I would like to hope it's more than the +10 attack/defense per skill point that some people have speculated on over time. At worst, having this number would allow us to find out the outer bounds of the random part of the equation

Fig Oni
04-18-2012, 09:49 PM
No need to ask funzio regarding the skill point.

Let ask the Fig.

Skill point on attack/defense are a useless placebo in the game they are only there to amuse the masses into thinking they will have benefits to your player.

Also if a person goes to a doctor & he prescribes a drug and when you asked what the purpose for it and you're only being told, it does help but how I won't tell you.
Would you still take the drug?
That must prove there is no benefit.

All I can conclude is in modern war skill point on att/def don't make no difference, if i had a second device I would start a new CC account just to prove it.

frenda
04-18-2012, 10:56 PM
<<< still trying to process the mental pic of everyone at Funzio pant less...

xclusiv
04-18-2012, 11:41 PM
two things i dont know about this game how much do skill points increase your attack and defense, and what effect do defense buildings have on robberys.

Nudie
04-18-2012, 11:43 PM
I'm not taking any chances. I'm putting all my skill points into Attack in case I meet up with a tough rat.

Bruiser
04-19-2012, 03:45 PM
Any updates???

jobadass
04-19-2012, 04:05 PM
Any updates???
I've been wondering the same thing.
Nicholost asked a great question, one that many of us have wondered about forever.
@Lfizzle: Where did that email chain get us? Thank you for any reply. You can solve it, tell us it's coming or put it to bed and let us know that we will never know.

Pikachu
04-19-2012, 04:09 PM
I put lots of skill pOints into energy I like doing map quests

jobadass
04-19-2012, 04:13 PM
I put lots of skill pOints into energy I like doing map quests
Mistake IMHO
Go with stamina

Pikachu
04-19-2012, 04:14 PM
Mistake IMHO
Go with stamina

but then I can farm lots of items!!! That's what is said to do in best of best guides

jobadass
04-19-2012, 04:19 PM
but then I can farm lots of items!!! That's what is said to do in best of best guides
Start a new thread if you want to discuss this.

kinghansen
04-19-2012, 04:43 PM
I'm going to be very happy if we finally get an answer regarding skill points.

L Fizzle
04-19-2012, 04:52 PM
Still trying to convince the guys to share their info with me. :)

jobadass
04-19-2012, 04:53 PM
Still trying to convince the guys to share their info with me. :)
Still hoping to hear.
Thanks Fizz

Ghost818
04-19-2012, 04:54 PM
Thanks L Fizzle, much appreciated.

Pekersss
04-19-2012, 04:56 PM
this would be extremely helpful, especially since I put most of my skill points into attack and defense. C'mon, Fizz!

PS- appreciate everything you do for the community.

L Fizzle
04-19-2012, 04:58 PM
Working on it! This week has been insane after the cheats, 9th item, and now KA launch. :)

Euchred
04-19-2012, 05:03 PM
Thanks for the effort Lauren I'm especially interested after actually getting the bank buster.

Is there any merit to the formula taken out of the game data that is if you're above level 100 each 1 point counts 10 attack or defense.

chumpbuster
04-20-2012, 03:11 AM
and another one bites the dust....

mnju_03
04-20-2012, 03:44 AM
Hey Fizzle... Lauren, have a drink at lunch. You deserve it. Heck, have 2!

Amber_
04-20-2012, 08:52 AM
Working on it! This week has been insane after the cheats, 9th item, and now KA launch. :)

K.. but since it's only like 2 days left it would be good to know.. i'm not spending any gold until I know what I get for it.. heck, I'm not spending gold anyways until the cheaters are sorted out.. but for others to know

willydpooh
04-20-2012, 09:28 AM
Working on it! This week has been insane after the cheats, 9th item, and now KA launch. :)
you can do it, just dont stress your beauty :)

Vile Lynn
04-20-2012, 09:53 AM
Excellent post, Nicholost! Thank you for it!
Better late than never, but I, too, would like to know how using skill points on attack & defense effects gameplay.
Anxiously awaiting L Fizzle's return with some answers.

G Wiz
04-20-2012, 10:53 AM
I figured since we're waiting for a response that maybe we can make some educated guesses as to how the attack points work.

I feel as though the skill points in reference to attack and defense might follow a similar algorithim as the defense buildings do.
If we apply the logic used when we assign skill points to energy and stamina, we know that we are getting a raw point increase of a certain number:

1skill point = 10 energy or 2 skill points = 1 stamina.

What do you guys think about skill points adding about .5% of your overall attack or defence? That would mean that as you get stronger each level, your skill points will increase their effectiveness as well? We also know that it takes a boat load more attack than a persons defense to have real success over an opponent, which is why something like this .5%, or even less, proves to have little impact on attack/defense success.

Just an off the dome assumption though...feel free to hack n slash it :)

Dorian Gray
04-20-2012, 11:32 AM
Funzio can be so sketchy sometimes. (Skill points, def building values, etc.) Usually the reason people are scared to tell you the truth is because they suspect you'll react badly if you were to find out. Transparency builds trust.

Airjenks
04-20-2012, 12:29 PM
Working on it! This week has been insane after the cheats, 9th item, and now KA launch. :)



Talks about cheating is not allowed on the forums... I thought u knew better! Lol

Crime City Mark
04-20-2012, 12:59 PM
Funzio can be so sketchy sometimes. (Skill points, def building values, etc.) Usually the reason people are scared to tell you the truth is because they suspect you'll react badly if you were to find out. Transparency builds trust.

Or other reasons. We're not worried at all about reaction to the numbers. We have other reasons for not releasing them.

Crime City Mark
04-20-2012, 01:00 PM
Funzio can be so sketchy sometimes. (Skill points, def building values, etc.) Usually the reason people are scared to tell you the truth is because they suspect you'll react badly if you were to find out. Transparency builds trust.

Or other reasons. We're not worried at all about reaction to the numbers. We have other reasons for not releasing them.

murf
04-20-2012, 01:04 PM
Funzio can be so sketchy sometimes. (Skill points, def building values, etc.) Usually the reason people are scared to tell you the truth is because they suspect you'll react badly if you were to find out. Transparency builds trust.

or the belief in having multiple unknowns causes perfectly logical people to follow different paths, if everything was black and white, the game would only have a single optimal path and the discrepancy between people on this forum following that stragegy and the other 99% would be even greater then it is today

sez
04-20-2012, 01:04 PM
Or other reasons. We're not worried at all about reaction to the numbers. We have other reasons for not releasing them.

Mark are you taking part in the 4/20 festivities today? I sense a touch of "annoyance and munchies" in your comments....

Vile Lynn
04-20-2012, 01:21 PM
I get the feeling that Funzio will keep a&d skill points as secretive as their reason for not explaining them sooner.
Bummer.

Crime City Mark
04-20-2012, 02:02 PM
Mark are you taking part in the 4/20 festivities today? I sense a touch of "annoyance and munchies" in your comments....

Nope. I may be from that area, but it's not my thing. Had some nice soup today though.

Dorian Gray
04-20-2012, 02:04 PM
Or other reasons. We're not worried at all about reaction to the numbers. We have other reasons for not releasing them.



Stating those reasons would indicate a desire to work on transparency. Not stating those reasons comes across as sketchy... As in: I wonder why they won't be up front and honest about these things?

To quote L Fizzle -
"Part of my role here is to help improve transparency between our development teams and the community."

I'm not trying to get on your nerves Mark, just trying to share a perspective on how Funzio comes across sometimes to players.

Joeycool
04-20-2012, 02:05 PM
Or other reasons. We're not worried at all about reaction to the numbers. We have other reasons for not releasing them.

Wooooooo! Mysterious! :)

Joeycool
04-20-2012, 02:05 PM
Nope. I may be from that area, but it's not my thing. Had some nice soup today though.

What kind of soup Mark?

eka6484
04-20-2012, 02:17 PM
Stating those reasons would indicate a desire to work on transparency. Not stating those reasons comes across as sketchy... As in: I wonder why they won't be up front and honest about these things?

To quote L Fizzle -
"Part of my role here is to help improve transparency between our development teams and the community."

I'm not trying to get on your nerves Mark, just trying to share a perspective on how Funzio comes across sometimes to players.



Well said mate

dudeman
04-20-2012, 02:39 PM
I don't think it's necessary for Funzio to comment on skill points. I know I seem like an unlikely person to say something like that, but I actually do think we know everything we need to know about skill points. There is a pretty clear statement about them on the skills page in game.

Maybe I'm way off here, but I think you can use explosives to figure it out based on trial and error. That's what I do and +40 Attack Skill seems to make a nice difference. It's a noticeable difference to me anyways. Actually make that +50. I got 2 Hardened Shotguns fairly recently.

Crime City Mark
04-20-2012, 02:42 PM
Butternut squash soup. It was delicious.

As for why we don't give the reasoning out; it's a lot of reasons. I'll give you one of them though. We want some things in the game to stay mysterious.

Joeycool
04-20-2012, 02:45 PM
Guys... forum members have been trying to squeeze this info out of Mark since the forum began.

It aint gonna happen.

Move on.

sez
04-20-2012, 02:49 PM
Guys... forum members have been trying to squeeze this info out of Mark since the forum began.

It aint gonna happen.

Move on.

You don't tell us what to do! ;-)

Joeycool
04-20-2012, 02:51 PM
You don't tell us what to do! ;-)

Sez... give me a $20 Itunes voucher!

sez
04-20-2012, 02:52 PM
Butternut squash soup. It was delicious.

As for why we don't give the reasoning out; it's a lot of reasons. I'll give you one of them though. We want some things in the game to stay mysterious.

Can I refer to you as "ButterNutz" from this point forward?

sez
04-20-2012, 02:52 PM
Sez... give me a $20 Itunes voucher!

I'm on it...

Joeycool
04-20-2012, 02:54 PM
Can I refer to you as "ButterNutz" from this point forward?

Ha ha! Massive LOL!!!

tempt
04-20-2012, 03:04 PM
Hope there is a real purpose to Atk/Def points. Otherwise I've wasted a bunch of those points.

Funzio: Can you at least acknowledge there are SOME value/impact with Atk/Def points? Even potential impact (linear/exponential/inverse-linear/etc.) would help. Otherwise, I think I may start banking on those skill points too...

pluxfan2
04-20-2012, 03:05 PM
I have been doing some testing with this with other players and have a rough idea of how it works.

eka6484
04-20-2012, 03:05 PM
Working on it! This week has been insane after the cheats, 9th item, and now KA launch. :)



What did L Fizz mean about the 9th item? Does she mean the ninth item in the event?

jobadass
04-20-2012, 03:06 PM
I have been doing some testing with this with other players and have a rough idea of how it works.
do tell...please

Dorian Gray
04-20-2012, 03:27 PM
I don't think it's necessary for Funzio to comment on skill points. I know I seem like an unlikely person to say something like that, but I actually do think we know everything we need to know about skill points. There is a pretty clear statement about them on the skills page in game.


I'll just agree to disagree on this one. I just don't think the statements on the skills page are clear at all when it comes to atk/def skill points.

I'm the kind of gamer that wants hard data when I'm making a decision on how to spend points I've earned while leveling up. Many many games I play give me exact numbers on how spending those points will affect my character. Whether it's +100 points to this or +10% to that. I don't think this 'mystery' Mark refers to is a positive thing in this aspect of the game because it forces you to make decisions without really knowing what you're getting for the skill points you spend. I would just like to be able to make an informed and educated decision is all.

Plux
04-20-2012, 03:31 PM
'g' You are not from Earth! You drink far too much coffee! I also agree with the rough idea statement, however I do not agree with your coffee antics, think 20p and how much more you could have had.

Remaining neutral in this discussion, I'm sitting on the fence and ouch it hurts!

frenda
04-20-2012, 03:36 PM
I'll just agree to disagree on this one. I just don't think the statements on the skills page are clear at all when it comes to atk/def skill points.

I'm the kind of gamer that wants hard data when I'm making a decision on how to spend points I've earned while leveling up. Many many games I play give me exact numbers on how spending those points will affect my character. Whether it's +100 points to this or +10% to that. I don't think this 'mystery' Mark refers to is a positive thing in this aspect of the game because it forces you to make decisions without really knowing what you're getting for the skill points you spend. I would just like to be able to make an informed and educated decision is all.

+1 I'm the same way. If Funzio expects me to spend skill points on something, I should know the relative cost of doing so. I know what I get for stamina or energy, but atk / def should remain a mystery? huh?

Burn
04-20-2012, 03:39 PM
We want some things in the game to stay mysterious.

This actually makes me quite angry.

I have generally been loosely supportive of Funzio, but this current 'mystery' about Attack points is absolutely farcical.

You want us to buy into an event but won't tell us what the end product Attack bonus actually delivers by way of tangible benefit?

You want us to buy crates on the off chance that we'll win a gun that has more of these Attack points as a bonus, but again won't tell us what the benefit is?

I've never heard anything so frankly ridiculous. It would be almost funny if it wasn't so fundamenally insulting to expect customers to pay out for something with no clear explanation of what that something actually is.

Suggested name for next limited edition item... The Emperors New Clothes. "Only 850 Gold. You won't see it in your inventory, it won't add anything to your Attack or Defense stats that is visible to the naked eye. But believe us, it's really really great!!"

What next? Funzio branded snake oil?

I won't be holding my breath waiting for any kind of reasonable response to this post.

*wanders off shaking head*

frenda
04-20-2012, 03:42 PM
Burn, brilliant mate. Said with the British sense for the ridiculous that we couldn't muster on this side of the big pond. Hopefully Funzio will take notice.

Rhino72
04-20-2012, 03:42 PM
I have been doing some testing with this with other players and have a rough idea of how it works.

Would you say that during your testing the value of each point after level 100 is about 10 as has been mentioned in many a post? If this is not the case do you think it changes with each level and the multiplier gets higher? I always go back to the ccm posts months ago about this topic and I keep looking at where he said it could add 1000s and where he used an example with a multiplier that was in the 50s.

One other thing that I am now thinking is that since the hardened shotgun has a + 5 attack skill added to the weapon that the multiplier is probably closer to 10. I don't think funzio would be giving out 100s of attack points with a common crate weapon and that is the only reason I am making this statement.

Joeycool
04-20-2012, 03:43 PM
ha ha! I love Burn :)

Dorian Gray
04-20-2012, 04:00 PM
ha ha! I love Burn :)

lol Burn certainly has a flair for getting his point across. :cool:

pluxfan2
04-20-2012, 04:04 PM
I need to do a bit more testing on it, so bare with me, but I remember a comment that one of the developers said that it can add thousands to your total. This is correct.

Dorian Gray
04-20-2012, 04:07 PM
Burn, brilliant mate. Said with the British sense for the ridiculous that we couldn't muster on this side of the big pond. Hopefully Funzio will take notice.

I need to hire him to speak at my next political rally.

dudeman
04-20-2012, 04:09 PM
I need to do a bit more testing on it, so bare with me, but I remember a comment that one of the developers said that it can add thousands to your total. This is correct.

+1

It's not as noticeable when only adding 3 points at a time, but when you get 40 or 50 almost overnight you notice a difference.

pluxfan2
04-20-2012, 04:13 PM
You need to know what your opponents def and att skill points are. If you can get them of them, then you can work out the impact they have.

kimberleyj
04-20-2012, 04:13 PM
i have to agree with burn. it is the reason why i won't be spending any gold on this event.

jobadass
04-20-2012, 04:30 PM
Not to get evryone all excited, but I just upped my skill attack by 3 (to 33).
My attack and defense are right at 29k. usually when I attack someone with real defense above 22k I would lose at least one fight in five.
Attacked someone with 23.5 D(real D) and won 10 straight. Coincidence? I'm not sure.

mnju_03
04-20-2012, 04:33 PM
Just have to have faith.... :D

Rhino72
04-20-2012, 05:27 PM
I need to do a bit more testing on it, so bare with me, but I remember a comment that one of the developers said that it can add thousands to your total. This is correct.

Ok please pm me if you want to share your results. What I wish I knew and most everybody else in this thread is that if + 40 attack on the bank buster equaled 400 attack with the theory of 10 above level 100 then it is nice but it isn't worth gong crazy for. Now if it was + 2000 to your attack then it makes it well worth it as well as people who spent a good deal of points on attack and def.

Pikachu
04-20-2012, 06:10 PM
Ok please pm me if you want to share your results. What I wish I knew and most everybody else in this thread is that if + 40 attack on the bank buster equaled 400 attack with the theory of 10 above level 100 then it is nice but it isn't worth gong crazy for. Now if it was + 2000 to your attack then it makes it well worth it as well as people who spent a good deal of points on attack and def.

Now it's a +100 bonus to your attack skill. Check the "Announcements" section.

Yahkin
04-20-2012, 08:13 PM
Now it's a +100 bonus to your attack skill. Check the "Announcements" section.

So with random luck, people can now gain what equals 34 levels of skill points overnight. These events are well on their way to screwing up the gameplay. It's difficult to have any sort of strategy, because the next event will likely just invalidate that strategy.

One "strategy" was putting more than the average joe into attack so that people would not be afraid to attack you, and then you would surprise them by being able to retatilate. Now a large group of people just leapfrogged those people without spending a drop of gold. :/

Some change is good to keep it interesting, but frankly each of these events/crates/nerfs, etc. is having drastic effects on gameplay.

Nudie
04-20-2012, 09:17 PM
+10 Burn ..........

chumpbuster
04-21-2012, 03:27 AM
its 100 attack points now, but we still have no clue on to how much percent or whatever 1 attack skill points equals to in actual attack?

FatDaz
04-21-2012, 04:04 AM
The Emperors New Clothes is a good idea, they say they want transparency

Thgil
04-21-2012, 04:57 AM
i am all about the unknown. but when it comes to spending rare skill points.....it would be nice to know somethings about the attack/defense. there are so many possibilities of how they can factor the use of the points in.
1 sp in att= 1 att point....1 sp in att= ?% of weapons damage, or 1 sp in att lowers the defense of other player. or 1 skill point in att will add 1 attack point to all weapons? who the heck knows. but i have 2000 point in energy, 80 in stamina and have a ton just waiting to be put somewhere.
right now i feel like they have made the events (for the most part) worth the time money/gold it takes to get them. so i do have a level of trust that this is more beneficial, than just 100 more to our att stats.
i also think that if we are spending gold on events, that we should be getting better drops when we don't get a card. i mean 25,000$ thanks? 500 respect points is a good enough trade for me, but i have spent over 500 gold in boxes and just barely got my 9th one. i only have 350 gold left. i hope i can get it!!! and i am wondering if i had spent that gold on creates how much more my stats would have gone up. but i am hoping for the best, and am trusting in CC.

epicrecipe
04-21-2012, 07:52 AM
It's difficult to have any sort of strategy, because the next event will likely just invalidate that strategy.

This. The official Funzio line is this is not a boxed game (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?21711-M4A1-Update!).
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?21711-M4A1-Update!

The beauty of Funzio's games is they allow for a myriad of approaches to success, yet the program managers will not hesitate to block *months* of player investment pursuant to a strategy that actually yields an edge. I believe that this philosophy coupled with a defiant attitude to the community leads to the frustration expressed.

Ramshutu
04-21-2012, 07:55 AM
its 100 attack points now, but we still have no clue on to how much percent or whatever 1 attack skill points equals to in actual attack?

1 attack skill point = 3.4 magic beans.

Hopefully, that should close the issue.

epicrecipe
04-21-2012, 08:04 AM
To the OP, l will say A/D skill points do have a significant impact. I've been stacking defense points for many levels and I very rarely suffer losses from attack or robberies. This allows me to no-bank and I can still attack a huge portion of my rival list.

In this case, for me, this event complements my strategy. Unless I find that it opens me up to stronger players, to which I'll go back to banking.

murf
04-21-2012, 09:11 AM
Would you say that during your testing the value of each point after level 100 is about 10 as has been mentioned in many a post? If this is not the case do you think it changes with each level and the multiplier gets higher? I always go back to the ccm posts months ago about this topic and I keep looking at where he said it could add 1000s and where he used an example with a multiplier that was in the 50s.

One other thing that I am now thinking is that since the hardened shotgun has a + 5 attack skill added to the weapon that the multiplier is probably closer to 10. I don't think funzio would be giving out 100s of attack points with a common crate weapon and that is the only reason I am making this statement.

+1 ...to add to your argument, the fact that they just increased to Bank Buster to +100 attack skill points, further adds to the theory that a skill point maxes out at around +10 to attack/defense....anything significantly larger would make this bonus too great IMO

iteachem
04-21-2012, 09:12 AM
1 attack skill point = 3.4 magic beans.

Hopefully, that should close the issue.

I thought I should have been collecting those magic beans... so tough to find

murf
04-21-2012, 09:17 AM
I'll just agree to disagree on this one. I just don't think the statements on the skills page are clear at all when it comes to atk/def skill points.

I'm the kind of gamer that wants hard data when I'm making a decision on how to spend points I've earned while leveling up. Many many games I play give me exact numbers on how spending those points will affect my character. Whether it's +100 points to this or +10% to that. I don't think this 'mystery' Mark refers to is a positive thing in this aspect of the game because it forces you to make decisions without really knowing what you're getting for the skill points you spend. I would just like to be able to make an informed and educated decision is all.

I agree with you Dorian, but taking Funzio's side for a second, this is what I posted earlier:

or the belief in having multiple unknowns causes perfectly logical people to follow different paths, if everything was black and white, the game would only have a single optimal path and the discrepancy between people on this forum following that stragegy and the other 99% would be even greater then it is today

So, having these unknowns causes us to make wrong decisions at times, which is frustrating to us, but keeps the playing field a little more level for the casual player who isn't spending hours upon hours dissecting each decision.

Dorian Gray
04-21-2012, 03:38 PM
I agree with you Dorian, but taking Funzio's side for a second, this is what I posted earlier:

or the belief in having multiple unknowns causes perfectly logical people to follow different paths, if everything was black and white, the game would only have a single optimal path and the discrepancy between people on this forum following that stragegy and the other 99% would be even greater then it is today

So, having these unknowns causes us to make wrong decisions at times, which is frustrating to us, but keeps the playing field a little more level for the casual player who isn't spending hours upon hours dissecting each decision.

I just think if they told everyone straight up on the skill points page what you get for each skill point spent in atk/def then this wouldn't be an issue.

As far as there only being one optimal path if everyone knew the details, I just don't think that would be true. Even if everything was there in black and white there would still be players who want to focus on attack and those who want to focus on defense so you would still get people taking different paths.

To paraphrase Tramp Stamp on this issue: "Some could argue that the best games ever made are the ones where all the variables are known."

Take Chess for example. Is there some random factor involved in whether or not that pawn is going to capture that other piece it is attacking? No. The rules of Chess are clearly laid out for all to see. That doesn't mean every game of Chess is going to play out the same.

Burn
04-21-2012, 03:59 PM
I also have no problem with the mystery, I do have a problem with them trying to monetise said mystery.

If their secrets are so important to the integrity of the game, then perhaps that particular area of the game shouldn't be so readily put up for sale and thus subjected to this level of scrutiny?

Besides, this whole safeguarding of the games 'secrets' is rendered laughable when we are still seeing cheaters running around all over the place diminishing the value of the Gold a number of us have purchased - and purchased on the assumption that Funzio can at least maintain the advantage we are paying good money for, by keeping their house in order.

And the primary reason for my own personal annoyance currently... whilst Funzio support is superb, whilst LFizzle is clearly trying hard to forge better customer relations, and whilst the Devs continue to add new features and enhancements, I find that CrimeCityMark can be surly, dismissive and at times frankly rude - as an important customer facing representative of Funzio he could do with a few lessons in Customer Relations - either don't talk to us at all, or talk to us openly and as valued customers - I for one do not appreciate being treated so dismissively by any employee of any company whose products I am paying out good money for. It's insulting, and casts Funzio as a whole in a very poor light.

Ziva
04-21-2012, 05:02 PM
Burn, I'm giving you a standing ovation!! You deserve a medal for having the courage to write these posts, and I'm with you 100%!!

The Billionaire
04-21-2012, 05:03 PM
I've been increasing my attack and defence points by 1 skill point each time i level up and spending the left over points on energy and stamina. I'm seeing a lot of talk about cheating over the last week can someone tell me whats been happening??

Many Thanks

Burn
04-21-2012, 05:08 PM
@Ziva - Thx, but I'm not on any kind of crusade, I'm just calling it as I see it.

Ziva
04-21-2012, 05:23 PM
@Ziva - Thx, but I'm not on any kind of crusade, I'm just calling it as I see it.

Yes, I know, and that's what makes your comments so much more significant. We deserve decent customer courtesy, especially those of us who have purchased gold, and the lack of this is why I will no longer be a paying customer.

epicrecipe
04-21-2012, 06:20 PM
@Burn...I agree 100%.

murf
04-21-2012, 06:40 PM
I just think if they told everyone straight up on the skill points page what you get for each skill point spent in atk/def then this wouldn't be an issue.

As far as there only being one optimal path if everyone knew the details, I just don't think that would be true. Even if everything was there in black and white there would still be players who want to focus on attack and those who want to focus on defense so you would still get people taking different paths.

To paraphrase Tramp Stamp on this issue: "Some could argue that the best games ever made are the ones where all the variables are known."

Take Chess for example. Is there some random factor involved in whether or not that pawn is going to capture that other piece it is attacking? No. The rules of Chess are clearly laid out for all to see. That doesn't mean every game of Chess is going to play out the same.

I understand what you are trying to say...but you don't see casual chess players playing against grandmasters (is that the right term?), which is what you would have here if all the rules were black and white...not knowing what skill points are worth, or how defensive buildings are used has caused some of us to possibly play sub-optimally, which closes the gap between the forum readers and the rest

Synergy
04-21-2012, 07:13 PM
Folks I've been trying to get specific answers regarding this issue and the defense building issue since I first joined these forums. In short, all my attempts at getting an answer were unsuccessful and eventually after talking about it long enough, I was told never to address any devs here, that they would never answer questions directed at them or answer requests for a response to any certain question, and that this wasn't the place to even ask. I was given a temp ban the next day and have somewhat left it alone since then.

Yahkin
04-21-2012, 07:16 PM
Folks I've been trying to get specific answers regarding this issue and the defense building issue since I first joined these forums. In short, all my attempts at getting an answer were unsuccessful and eventually after talking about it long enough, I was told never to address any devs here, that they would never answer questions directed at them or answer requests for a response to any certain question, and that this wasn't the place to even ask. I was given a temp ban the next day and have somewhat left it alone since then.

That's some stellar customer service there.

Pikachu
04-21-2012, 07:17 PM
Seems like this is a touchy subject. Maybe we could get some hints?

sez
04-21-2012, 07:19 PM
Seems like this is a touchy subject. Maybe we could get some hints?

Go to bed! It's 9:00pm for Pete's Sake!

Pikachu
04-21-2012, 08:05 PM
Go to bed! It's 9:00pm for Pete's Sake!

Aww, but it's a Saturday! Even on school days I sometimes don't go to bed until 10:00 or so.

chumpbuster
04-21-2012, 08:35 PM
l fizzle whats the sitch?????????

Synergy
04-22-2012, 12:40 PM
One good thing that will come out of this event (although I doubt anyone will be able to pin anything down mathematically), is that we should have a much better understanding on this issue (without any dev input). +100 Attack skill should make a big difference in your overall attack strength if they're worth anything. As far as answers from devs, I'm not holding my breath.

But, just like we figured out a pretty precise effect of defense buildings (which led to most of us stopping building/upgrading them), through trial and error we should be able to do the same with this issue. Those who get the "bank buster" will be vital in helping with this.

Giedrius
04-22-2012, 12:52 PM
I'm waiting for someone to tell us what difference they got after getting buster. I can't tell myself. I got Bank buster but I got loads of crates recently as well, my attack increased by roughly 3k last couple days.

Pikachu
04-22-2012, 01:05 PM
I'm waiting for someone to tell us what difference they got after getting buster. I can't tell myself. I got Bank buster but I got loads of crates recently as well, my attack increased by roughly 3k last couple days.

I don't think the added attack or defense from the skill points is visible. Must be a hidden multiplier or something. Random elements really make me angry. :/

Giedrius
04-22-2012, 01:12 PM
We all know it's "hidden", but players can check difference by attacking theyr rivals before and after buster. And do that not just few times but for few days and see % of succesfull wins.

Pikachu
04-22-2012, 01:13 PM
We all know it's "hidden", but players can check difference by attacking theyr rivals before and after buster. And do that not just few times but for few days and see % of succesfull wins.

Oh. My badddd. :)

Well, good luck with your research.

i need muney
04-22-2012, 01:27 PM
Wish I attacked anyone strong enough before winning the banana, but.....
My mafia attack is at 37k + 9k of napalm + 261 attack.
I attacked a guy with about 40k of real def and was STILL losing 1-3 napalms almost every shot.
That really makes me think that skill points ain't worth a rats azz.
So attack points are worthless, defence points are worthless, energy is no longer relevant and even if you're into maps, 1700-2000 is really enough. Stamina? Right now it looks like the only valid skill. But going over a hundred is questionable.
How can anyone talk about balance after that?

dudeman
04-22-2012, 01:31 PM
I got some crates in the time surrounding my acquisition of the Buster too, but only increased my attack about 1800. Previously, this would mean that I could now attack rivals with a defense score 1200-1500 better than rivals I had been attacking before.

However, with my latest TMA increase I can attack rivals with defense scores 5000 points stronger than rivals I was previously attacking. Tell me that has nothing to do with the Bank Buster.

Also, since the Bank Buster got here I have even stronger suspicions (than I already did) that there is a relation between skill points and explosives consumption. If I am correct, this would be another good reason why we don't know more about A/D skill points.

Yahkin
04-22-2012, 02:37 PM
Meh...I can't get more than 8 Cc's...so I guess I don't care.

Ghost818
04-22-2012, 02:42 PM
Wish I attacked anyone strong enough before winning the banana, but.....
My mafia attack is at 37k + 9k of napalm + 261 attack.
I attacked a guy with about 40k of real def and was STILL losing 1-3 napalms almost every shot.
That really makes me think that skill points ain't worth a rats azz.
So attack points are worthless, defence points are worthless, energy is no longer relevant and even if you're into maps, 1700-2000 is really enough. Stamina? Right now it looks like the only valid skill. But going over a hundred is questionable.
How can anyone talk about balance after that?

Started going 1 gold 1 cash cause you got your banana! I hope its worth it lol

Chiefer
04-22-2012, 03:29 PM
L fizzle.... Tell them... I got attacked by some one 13k,13k. Over 9k less from me. Have invested all this time and money since the game came out. And, his bank buster +100 attack did it. Tell them. This is an obvious f*** up. Or intentional breaking of the game to put all attention towards Kingdom Age and the weaning of Modern War. If you really want to do it Funzio. Be prepared to not being able to defend yourself against the judgement of what was done....... I've invested lots of money, lots of time. And the bank buster gives anyone power over me.....

And.... I'm going to buy it flat out later with gold..... I have no reason to worry about it...... But it BREAKS the game.

Face it. You devalued all my investment to sell the bank buster to me. You fixed a game that you charge for. It's immoral, unethical.

I say it breaks the game. I say it devalues investment, I say you cannot disprove me. But come on everyone. Disprove me Funzio. Or let everyone believe what I said as true.

Pikachu
04-22-2012, 04:39 PM
L fizzle.... Tell them... I got attacked by some one 13k,13k. Over 9k less from me. Have invested all this time and money since the game came out. And, his bank buster +100 attack did it. Tell them. This is an obvious f*** up. Or intentional breaking of the game to put all attention towards Kingdom Age and the weaning of Modern War. If you really want to do it Funzio. Be prepared to not being able to defend yourself against the judgement of what was done....... I've invested lots of money, lots of time. And the bank buster gives anyone power over me.....

And.... I'm going to buy it flat out later with gold..... I have no reason to worry about it...... But it BREAKS the game.

Face it. You devalued all my investment to sell the bank buster to me. You fixed a game that you charge for. It's immoral, unethical.

I say it breaks the game. I say it devalues investment, I say you cannot disprove me. But come on everyone. Disprove me Funzio. Or let everyone believe what I said as true.

:O

I had no idea it did THAT much...