A Counter Argument to Camping (*gasp!!*)

[Jp lfs]

I haven't posted much on the forums yet, mainly because I was too busy reading them. Also, I wanted to be able to actually CONTRIBUTE something, rather than just react, reply, or ask a silly FNG question. (Thanks War Priest for your patience and kindness in response to the ones I did ask.)

So here it goes... and I know this flies in the face of a lot of stuff that is pretty much accepted as God's Law around here, but... STOP CAMPING. Especially to those of you on level 2 waiting for all of your buildings and your vault to upgrade completely before you go any further.

One of the many amazing things about this game I love is that there are many built in checkpoints that force you to slow down. Whether it is a Barracks or Shipyard upgrade required to unlock a unit needed to do a certain portion of the map, or a mission to "Upgrade a Military Market to Level 6", there are built-in places already that will force you to slow down for at least a day or two before plowing ahead, and also serve to remind you to pay attention to more than just beating up on your rivals or slamming through missions. And that is all I believe you need to do. Slow down a little bit, pay a little closer attention to your economy, and upgrade your vault as much as possible. But honestly, some of those upgrades take FOREVER, and I'm not going to STOP playing a game I love, the way I love to play it, for TWO MONTHS or more, until my vault is maxed out.

I think my biggest problem with camping is a post I read that recommended that you NEVER PvP. Up until that point, I was drinking the Kool-Aid, too. I started a new LLP and camped him. And I totally agree with an economy based, vault-conscious strategy. But no PvP... EVER?? That is without a doubt my favorite part of this game. My team vs. your team, head-to-head, best man wins. And can possibly break the bank with a win, as well.

A successful "hunting run" for me can net upwards of 3 million dollars (10 repeated 300k strikes on a cash cow or a bunch of 50k-200k strikes on smaller ones) in less than 15 minutes of gameplay. And I enjoy every single second of it. That is the equivalent of a 300k/hr camper spending 10 hours of constant vigilance over their base. I can do a hunting run while I'm driving, and not even be a safety hazard. Whereas, after a week of "camping" both my level 65 character and my level 6 one, I realized that after a week, I was nothing but a glorified landlord. Bored.To.Tears. With a game I love. That is no good at all, so I finally decided to post a Counter Point.

There was a thread posted asking who was up to 300k/hr, and it was a lot of good reading, but I have to throw out a couple of things I hold to be true...

1. That Income Per Hour is a HOLLOW number. For a couple of reasons:
a)You actually have to be clicking every dollar the second it pops up to realize that amount. Not possible unless you don't sleep or log out or shower or have intercourse without a 5 min. alarm going off to remind you to check your Supply Depot. Sorry campers, but if I want to spend 6 hours of quality time with my kids, I'm gonna miss 120 collections on those buildings alone, and do it gladly.
b)You actually have to be able to collect it. And by that I mean that no one raided it while you were asleep or in the shower or living your life away from the game. And in levels 62-70 I swear to you EVERY SINGLE ONE of the bases I visited between midnight and 3am EST had been looted down to the floor. Some of them had even lost their guard towers. All of them. At level 70 I started to notice that even during the day most or all of the bases had been raided 60-80%. I don't get raided successfully very often, so I'm not sure, but I think that means that when you wake up in the morning and go to do your collection rounds, you're going to be clicking a lot of little baby wrenches instead of little dollars.

Why is that? It's simple. For a hunter like me, the well runs dry. At about level 65, I stopped being able to take down a cash cow for 3 mil. several times a day. Either everyone has been reading the forums and wised up, or they just realized that their unvaulted cash was gonna be gleefully spent by someone like me while they slept. By the time I hit lvl 70, a 3 mil hit on someone became a rarity. Maybe once every 2 days, or even 3. And since all of the other bases on my rivals list had about the same stats, they were reduced to raiding each others bases for extra loot. Like a school of pirahnas who start feeding on each other when there's nothing else to eat. At about lvl 60, the raid numbers of my rivals started going through the roof while their fight numbers leveled off almost completely.

What is my point? When you campers actually start playing through the game, and leveling up normally, you are setting yourselves up as bright, shiny targets for EVERY SINGLE RIVAL who sees you on their list. I understand that camping is a strategy. And the reason behind it IMHO, is fear of the sharks ahead of you, whether that is the giants above level 100, or the gold players in the lower levels who are going to DEVOUR all of your meat shields and your Lvl 10 Munitions Stockpiles while you are sleeping. And those are very real things to be afraid of, I admit. But what you aren't understanding is that the pirahnas are actually the bigger threat. What I mean is that the other regular players in your weight class are going to be throwing themselves at your base 300 times a night or more, and the sheer weight of their numbers means that they WILL EVENTUALLY SUCCEED. I will say it again because I think it is so important- EVERY SINGLE BASE I VISITED was completely looted by 3am or sooner.

My son was complaining today about a girl in his kindergarden class who wins every game they play, and I was telling him something that it took a long time for me to realize in my own life- there will ALWAYS be someone bigger, stronger, and faster than you. ALWAYS. You will NEVER catch up to someone who started the race 3 months before you started running. Which brings me to my second point...

2. You might want to break down and buy some gold.

I'll give all of you loud and proud FREE players a moment to shake your heads in disgust and hate me even more at this point, but the simple truth of it is that buying gold gives you a competitive edge. A HUGE head-to-head advantage, in my case. And I really didn't have to spend that much REAL money before I was the #1 player statistically in my weight class (full allies) AT EVERY SINGLE LEVEL. Up until level 70, at least, I didn't see a single other player with attack or defensive #'s even close to mine. I mean I was at least double 60-70% of them. And even at 70, I have only seen 2 higher so far. That means I can pretty much attack the competition with impunity. And I have been for weeks now. I am telling you now that a little bit of gold can buy you a couple of units that will dramatically boost your stats, and that you never have to worry about losing them. While I was reading post after post about the broken PvP casualty rates, I also noticed that since I got the 10 Titanium Bar unit, my rates really have dramatically dropped and also that I worry less about losing an occassional Super Hornet or Osprey when that bright green airplane I bought a couple weeks ago is always leading the charge into battle, and always will be.

Why do professional athletes use steroids? Because they work.

Also, buying some gold gave me the ability to stop checking in every 5 minutes to collect, because it wasn't as critical to my gameplay anymore that I collect on time. And if $20 buys me the freedom to live my real life full time and also enjoy this game to it's fullest, then I will gladly spend it again and again.

You will never catch up to the top tier players in this game that started playing when it was first released, and if you aren't really lucky, when you finally start leveling up, you will be DEVOURED by the school of pirahnas who have been eagerly waiting for you to finally come into the water. What I am really mystified by is the LLP's who are planning a long-term strategy FOR A GAME THEY HAVE NEVER REALLY PLAYED.

So, in closing, although I do agree with slowing your game down a little to pay more attention to your economy, and freely admit that upgrading your vault is vital to monetary survival in this game, I think that camping in general, and especially long-term, is a flawed strategy. I think that while you are busy keeping a fearful eye on that shark in front of you, the pirahnas are going to be tearing you apart from behind. And when you run out of stuff to spend the money on (and you will) you are going to overflow the 10 mil max on your vault anyways. So the sharks will get you in the end, too. Good luck on that unprotected race to buy the Nanotech Factory before someone notices all that unvaulted money. I have never once seen one on a base, and I would really like to.

This is way longer than I originally intended. I apologize, but I felt I needed to fully explain a position that is opposed to most of what I have been reading on here. I welcome your feedback, even to bash me for being a loud and proud goldilocks or warn me that there are players in my future who will easily destroy me. Thanks.

[JMC]

I never liked camping, but you do need to camp a little bit now if you're just getting into the game.

Most of the people that have been camping on here for months came into the game as some of the first players, so i have no idea why they decided to camp. The whole point of camping is for you to get into a different group of players and be ahead of them. But if you started first and are already ahead of most people just because you started playing earlier, why camp?

Anyways, i think the best way to play the game now is to camp for a little bit at the start. Maybe a week or 2 to give you an edge against all the players you're going to be going against and to build up a slightly higher income/vault. Then in the low levels people tend to leave money out of the vault or just don't have a vault large enough. This is when PvP is most profitable. Instead of camping only and avoiding PvP, you should be doing PvP only. This will allow you to bring in millions a day, getting even more ahead of the people you're playing with without having to sit there and not even really play the game. This is something that im guessing digitalwalker did on his digitalcamper account. And look where he is now compared to everyone else his level.

Also don't know why some campers compare their income per hours to higher level players and feel like they're better if theirs is higher/similar. If they leveled up, they would need the unit buildings that we need, and i'd say i've probably put in a good month and a half or more upgrading non-income buildings. When those guys do need the buildings, their income per hour will then be haulted for all that time. Just saying.

[Jp lfs]

Thank you so much! I have been PvP'ing a ton with my LLP and using all of the loot to fuel my economy. Seems to be working really well.

[JohnnyR]

Wow dude, I had a feeling this was gonna be a WOT, JMC's replied so must be worthwhile read.

[Agent Orange]

That was a really delightful read, well done.

I agree, the way the game is designed sitting still in one place is not terribly productive and now that all buildings can only be unlocked at specific levels it makes even less sense.

The other important point is that the game is still evolving so one strategy that worked well may not work so well now with the exception of building an all gold army since that is invincible but as others have said your best bang for the buck is now buying in the lower levels since trying to keep up in the high levels is a very expensive proposition.

PvP is a funny critter, I do a lot over 22,000 wins so far and about 1500 losses many from me being curious but it is an important source of valor. But you really need to intel your rival before you pull the trigger and now I have taken to reading a players wall just to get a feel for where they are at. For example if they are being taunted by a bully I tend to move on and instead hunt the bully since I find I get some interesting results from doing this. Also important if they happen to be friends with other palyers you are friends with or they may happen to be in a very powerful alliance and this brings upon you a nasty barrage of attacks from their allies.

I started to camp my LLP a bit but soon realized that I had no choice but to level up due to the high number of valor related PvPs I was doing. Instead I realized that upgrading specific weapons buildings so I could buy the most powerful weapons it made was far more useful. I think there is a fine line in terms of your level and ally count and if you can milk it you can get a lot of valor with minimal losses.

But in the end there are a lot of different ways to play and I think it boils down to what works best for you.

[Dreno33]

If they leveled up, they would need the unit buildings that we need, and i'd say i've probably put in a good month and a half or more upgrading non-income buildings. When those guys do need the buildings, their income per hour will then be haulted for all that time. Just saying.

I am increasing my income first to max (for a lvl 2), then work on 3 of the 4 unit buildings available at lvl 1 (excluding the grounds unit building) to 10. I figure it as, if I start upgrading the unit buildings periodically and not the income buildings, I am losing out in a sense. The quicker I get those income buildings to lvl 10 the more I am stocking up after while the unit buildings are upgrading. This way when I am lvl 10 in the unit buildings, I can stalk up quickly on the better units before PvP to lvl up to 3. I am going to take it ONE lvl at a time, maxing my available buildings first. I want to see how high of a lvl I can reach without ever losing a fight or raid(: I know how sometimes people lose even though the stats were in their favor, but I want to try(: Good points though JMC, this is just my personal strategy

[JMC]

I am increasing my income first to max (for a lvl 2), then work on 3 of the 4 unit buildings available at lvl 1 (excluding the grounds unit building) to 10. I figure it as, if I start upgrading the unit buildings periodically and not the income buildings, I am losing out in a sense. The quicker I get those income buildings to lvl 10 the more I am stocking up after while the unit buildings are upgrading. This way when I am lvl 10 in the unit buildings, I can stalk up quickly on the better units before PvP to lvl up to 3. I am going to take it ONE lvl at a time, maxing my available buildings first. I want to see how high of a lvl I can reach without ever losing a fight or raid(: I know how sometimes people lose even though the stats were in their favor, but I want to try(: Good points though JMC, this is just my personal strategy

Yeah, it's better to get the income buildings first, but, just saying to those campers that do think they're superior to higher levels because of income per hour, their income per hour would not be nearly as high if they spent half their time upgrading other buildings as well.

[JMC]

Wow dude, I had a feeling this was gonna be a WOT, JMC's replied so must be worthwhile read.

I read the start but it is pretty long so i didn't really read the rest. Skimmed through it and most of what he's saying are my thoughts about camping so i think i have a pretty good idea of what his view on it is. So i just went with my own reply after that.

[War Priest]

No problem buddy. Good work on typing that up.

[Dreno33]

Yeah, it's better to get the income buildings first, but, just saying to those campers that do think they're superior to higher levels because of income per hour, their income per hour would not be nearly as high if they spent half their time upgrading other buildings as well.

very true. and very possible to still be a complete ignorant player with high income per hour at low lvl. Found a couple like me just browsing the rival list. Suggested building a shipyard and air field and expanding. One replied and asked what units were for. *Sigh*

[JohnnyR]

I agree with income per hour being hollow, and didn't really find a need for beefing that up till money earned started being eroded by casualties lost, however I think a good bit of camping here and there is good to recharge and recooperate. I find that complete domination over an oppenent leaves fewer casualties on my end to replace, and both the process and the result of camping brings a nice boost in stats. By cutting allies, one meets weaker and more vulnerable cash cows, and after a spell at the lower rungs, moving up with more money and units makes it easier to take on the more evenly matched opponents. Camp breathers. Overkill in any direction isn't going to work longterm though.

No supply depots or armories in my base, and electric companies were a tough sell. Glad I got those when I did though, collected those crazily during the supply box event.

[Jp lfs]

Dreno, I find it fascinating that you have chosen to respond to the other members, but not to the actual point. Especially because you are the one I was talking about who is planning a long-term strategy and is considered a Senior Member in the forum for a game you have not even really played yet. Not an attack, just an observation.

[Jp lfs]

I think it was Mcdoc who called that "Turtling" from time to time, rather than long-term Camping. I actually agree with that idea completely.

[Dreno33]

Dreno, I find it fascinating that you have chosen to respond to the other members, but not to the actual point. Especially because you are the one I was talking about who is planning a long-term strategy and is considered a Senior Member in the forum for a game you have not even really played yet. Not an attack, just an observation.

Crime City...

None taken, It's merely a form of play. I like to try and be best at what I involve myself in. I figured that no one has ever tried and continued this strategy yet so I decided to give it a try(: But considering some low stat a-hole just freakin attacked me and leveled me up to 3, I'm quite annoyed at this moment...

[JohnnyR]

Dreno, I find it fascinating that you have chosen to respond to the other members, but not to the actual point. Especially because you are the one I was talking about who is planning a long-term strategy and is considered a Senior Member in the forum for a game you have not even really played yet. Not an attack, just an observation.

He plays Crime City as well, which shares a forum here.

Turtling and camping are two seperate strategies in my head as well. I think the seperation would be that campers attack and build up at low levels, while turtlers simply build econ and completely hault levelling up and most progress.

[digitalwalker]

I never liked camping, but you do need to camp a little bit now if you're just getting into the game.

Most of the people that have been camping on here for months came into the game as some of the first players, so i have no idea why they decided to camp. The whole point of camping is for you to get into a different group of players and be ahead of them. But if you started first and are already ahead of most people just because you started playing earlier, why camp?

Anyways, i think the best way to play the game now is to camp for a little bit at the start. Maybe a week or 2 to give you an edge against all the players you're going to be going against and to build up a slightly higher income/vault. Then in the low levels people tend to leave money out of the vault or just don't have a vault large enough. This is when PvP is most profitable. Instead of camping only and avoiding PvP, you should be doing PvP only. This will allow you to bring in millions a day, getting even more ahead of the people you're playing with without having to sit there and not even really play the game. This is something that im guessing digitalwalker did on his digitalcamper account. And look where he is now compared to everyone else his level.

Also don't know why some campers compare their income per hours to higher level players and feel like they're better if theirs is higher/similar. If they leveled up, they would need the unit buildings that we need, and i'd say i've probably put in a good month and a half or more upgrading non-income buildings. When those guys do need the buildings, their income per hour will then be haulted for all that time. Just saying.

Yes, that's right! Low level pvp has brought me a great amount of cash that can hardly earn from money buildings.

Don't understand, always see people upgrade units and boost buildings that not belong to his own country. If only focus on ones own country's buildings, not only get a higher boost, but also save a lot of time.

[Jp lfs]

Just wanted to say thank you all for the feedback. I am truly flattered that some of the players here even took the time to read my rant, let alone respond. And praise or support was completely unexpected. I really thought I was gonna get flamed mercilessly. Thank you all again. Nothing but respect for all of the senior members here.

[vball]

Jp, love the location tag. Too funny. And I agree with you too.

I personally enjoy seeing players with high level munitions, oil rigs, etc as most of them do not seem to have built up adequate defenses. I see some with a hundred or more light gunners, desert leaders and so on but their overall strength is quite low. These are friends to visit often and see if they have not harvested their money.

I agree with Digital Walker, the valor points are the key. Initially was doing much more camping, but frankly find it a bit boring and enjoy browsing around my rivals list to see if there are any out there to attack.

Part of the fun for me I suppose, so in the middle of changing my paradigm I suppose to better suit my personal taste.

[Mcdoc]

Great thread JP.

Trust me, going against the grain sometimes starts a whole new strategy. When I first suggested that people try losing some allies to get down to some fun PvP - it got mixed reviews. Then a lot of people tried it and we're having fun again. I think someone eventually gave some statistical data that showed there wasn't that much difference - but my point was like yours - I'm more interested in having FUN than tracking stats, bragging about my hourly income - and even though I'm pretty proud of my Win / Loss ratio, I don't feel the need to pull mine out to compare to yours.

I don't think I was the 1st to mention Turtling - I thought it was maybe the Preist who said he was on the toilet - well - maybe I did ask is he was Turtling while Toileting - but I referring to a different kind of Turtling at the time - but if that's where the term originated - then I guess thats it.

Also, I'm still kinda torn on what you guys call camping. For me, camping is what I do when I find the guy with 2 NanoTech factories, 2 Oil Rigs and 2 Nuclear Plants all uncollected and I just ran out of valor - so I will camp on his base, check my inventory, add every Allie number in his news feed, and build up my stamina until i can take every penny I can from every building - nothing personal - just playing the game the way it was intended to be played :)

I get what you guys call camping - but in my mind - camping is what you do somewhere away from home - and so I would call camping in your own back yard "Turtling". I almost started a thread "Camping vs Turtling: Serious Strategies They Don't Want You To Know About" -but the FNG Guide kinda covered most of what I would have said already.

I'm glad to see different strategies discussed - otherwise this becomes a game of lemmings. With the crazy PvP casualties that are so freakin ridiculous right now - I'm seriously considering taking my Allie count down to just my gold units and clean up on PvP cash. Only problem is that would leave my base wide open for constant raids as I would have very low defenses.

Choices . . . Choices.

[Jp lfs]

Thanks for your advice on losing allies by the way. I was up to 595 and realized I had no reason for it. It has taken a while but I have cut 200 so far. I should soon be down below the max for my level and be able to try out your strategies, as I am sure they will work for me. Thanks again!!

[Dreno33]

Just wanted to say thank you all for the feedback. I am truly flattered that some of the players here even took the time to read my rant, let alone respond. And praise or support was completely unexpected. I really thought I was gonna get flamed mercilessly. Thank you all again. Nothing but respect for all of the senior members here.

i guess we can agree to disagree ;)

[Hassleham]

I don't see why there's people trying to tell others how to play. One of the good things about this game is that there are different ways of playing it, but there is constantly people trying to dictate how exactly it should be done. Leave people to make their own decisions!

[Thunder Child]

Not sure anyone is TELLING anyone else how to play. One of the reasons why I finally joined this forum after months of sitting on the sidelines was to acknowledge the fact that I had learnt so much from the healthy and generally amiable discussions which take place here. People are entirely free to take what they want from these discussions, opinions and insights....

[War player]

I play the game for fun. When it becomes no fun, I will stop playing it. Everyone has their own definition of fun. First, I want to get every non-gold building in the game. Every one. That's what makes it fun. I do PvP, raids, and complete missions as fast as I can in order to build up money, so I can buy more buildings. That's what makes it fun for me. I'm almost there. When I get there, I will try to get as many buildings to level 10 as possible.

Is that the best strategy?? Of course it is. It's what makes the game fun for me.

[Thunder Child]

Slightly different goals but pretty much the same philosophy. And I have to say that the forum has only added to the fun I'm having...

[Dreno33]

+1 Thunder Child

[Angirl]

That was a very good and formal read and after reading all the camping threads after I had started the game, I thought I had made a big mistake by not camping and I would have to start again.

However, I PvP and raid other players and (I rarely see a player with higher stats than me and judging by the size of their base they have been camping for a while) then I spend all my cash on units until I have a free slot to either build, upgrade, expand or increase my vault. I easily turn over 8 million a day.

My only downfall is that I am leveling to quick for my economy and I am not sure how long I can carry myself through the game just by robbing other people.

Time will tell but at the moment I am enjoying the game and even considering giving money back to the game by buying a few gold units.

[JMC]

Nobody will ever have any money out of their vault once you get to the higher levels. Before u get too high, you're gonna want some economy so that you can continue to make money without earning anything from PvP. You could win some cash from raids, but the casualties cost you triple what a raid would reward you with, even if you're raiding something that pays out a lot.

[Acheron]

Heres a nice raid I did at level 57

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9032/img0236y.png

thankyou campers!

[el_gringo]

I see where youre coming from but it also depends on the device you are using.

I'm on an ipod touch 8gb and every attack or raid crashes my game, so on the occasions I do attack it has to be very well prepared.

Thus your method takes an awful lot of time, and sitting around upgrading monoey buildings is a much better option. I reckon it would take a days straight play to afford a super hornet!

The other 'advantage' here is that I can't actually get my stamina down below 5 due to the time taken to get back into the game after a crash, so all my points go on energy, defense and attack!

[Poopenshire]

I am going to weigh in here. I have been play since November but just joined the forums. I am level 77 with >15000 attack and >18000 defense. That is not counting my skill points. I don't camp but I do not rush to level up either. Camping alone is too boring and leveling too fast means exposure to whales I am not ready for yet. It's an art to balance everything. I do "pause" sometimes to upgrade my money and unit buildings. I also pick my battles. What ever you do just do it and remember we all have our own opinions. Btw, I am free play considering gold in the future. I think I do well but might compete more later.

[emcee]

Another thread about the efficacy of camping....

Everyone playing this game whether you are hardcore pve/pvp or strict turtling is exercising camping to a degree. When you are sleeping and upgrading your income buildings and obviously not raiding/attacking or doing mission, technically you are camping.

The arguments against camping are numerous however as long as you are not generating negative income its a good thing. Now the degree of efficacy depends on how aggressive you camp. Strictly hunkering down and doing nothing other than upgrading income buildings is an extreme but is also imo the best LONG term strategy. People have to keep in mind that Modern War is not a race to get to the highest level first. You are not competing with the guy who started at the same time with you or for that matter before or after. You are only competing with people at your level within your alliance members bracket. As long as you strong against these people that's all that matters.
There is no such thing as opportunity cost of not utilizing your energy and stamina while camping as there is no timeline for playing this game. If Funzio gave everyone only 2 years to play this game then all bets are off and camping would be crazy.

If you want to actively play this game then camping would be quite boring. My level 6 tortoise account has been camping for 4 months or so. I am sure most people who started at the same time are way more powerful than me at present. However, this is not an apples to apples comparison. I am only concerned with people at my level and within my alliance member bracket. With that said my hourly income 223392, money on hand 44859162, max vault, 41 square base expansion and perfect win loss record is hard to ignore for anyone at my level. Also, when I chose to level up I will have the best units money can buy and still have access to best valor units like every other player.

Hardcore turtling is the only viable long term strategy imo as Modern War is not a race to the finish line.

[Thunder Child]

Awesome exposition of the hardcore position.... Wish I had read something like that way back! I have decided to go 'hardcore' at level 89, and I'm prepared to stay here for months... Some type of peverse experiment - come strategy. I agree with your long termism, and I fell certain it will bear fruit down the line, as well as make for interesting gaming when I relaunch my forces. I only hope I don't run into you Emcee on the same day!

[emcee]

Awesome exposition of the hardcore position.... Wish I had read something like that way back! I have decided to go 'hardcore' at level 89, and I'm prepared to stay here for months... Some type of peverse experiment - come strategy. I agree with your long termism, and I fell certain it will bear fruit down the line, as well as make for interesting gaming when I relaunch my forces. I only hope I don't run into you Emcee on the same day!

TC I doubt we will ever run into each other. It will still take a while to have all of my remaining 11 income buildings to reach level 10 not to mention upgrade all unit buildings. Perhaps if you stay the course at level 89 my secondary account at level 16 may catch up.

Happy camping.

[Poopenshire]

Emcee, what people are saying is there are alternatives to turtling and camping. Myself, I preach a blance of everything, but that's what's fun for me. There is no right or wrong way. No one has collected any data to suggest one way or the other if anything will work long term. They are all speculative and will work out over time. I currently have max vault, 36 money buildings with many leveled 7 and above, all basic unit buildings are minimum level 7 and now am working on the advanced buildings. All this with out hardcore camping/or turtling. All this as a free player and doing PVP and PVE. Granted I do slow down alot and I am always upgrading a building and expanding my base, but I want to have fun now. In 2 years there may be no game.

[Joe Brown1]

What lvl do you consider higher levels where PvP doesn't generate much income? Currently at lvl 36 (going back and forth between CC and MW as I don't have time to pursue either aggressively. As a result I am at about $302K income but like the idea of more PvP if it pays for itself. Also where do you target an opponent's def vs your att to minimize losses. PvP on CC is one of my favorite aspects.

[Bronson]

What lvl do you consider higher levels where PvP doesn't generate much income? Currently at lvl 36 (going back and forth between CC and MW as I don't have time to pursue either aggressively. As a result I am at about $302K income but like the idea of more PvP if it pays for itself. Also where do you target an opponent's def vs your att to minimize losses. PvP on CC is one of my favorite aspects.

When you click on your rivals list always press raid to go to your opponents base then click on the rival profile and it will show his A/D stats. Make sure your attack is considerably higher than their defense as their stats do not consider things like country bonus, buildings bonus and skill points

[Joe Brown1]

Understand that - however in CC you don't lose usits - have you estimated a Att to Def ration to minimize yopur expensive losses - i.e generally try to keep to defenders with 75% or less of your attack etc. Also - seems like even at lvl 36 most people have their funds in the vault

[Bronson]

Understand that - however in CC you don't lose usits - have you estimated a Att to Def ration to minimize yopur expensive losses - i.e generally try to keep to defenders with 75% or less of your attack etc. Also - seems like even at lvl 36 most people have their funds in the vault

Unfortunately with MW there doesn't seem to be a sweet spot. I have done some PVP today against people with under a third defence to my attack and still lost around 10 units in 14 attacks including 2 GIGNs.

There are numorous threads on here complaining that the PVP is broke and nothing has changed in the last few months

[Freekizh]

Hi this is my first post. I started MW 4 days ago, and I completely agree with the OP.

I have had over 1000 fights (won 850) and I live for a raid! Thats 300 fights a day - i would literally add all my skill points to stamina and still die waiting for it to recharge! First I did all those crappy missions but worked out you XP and level up too much without $$. So by selectively picking cash rich raids I could pick up to 300k a raid by the time I hit level 17.

Then I realized at that level everything got real expensive to expand or upgrade, so I started adding a few money buildings but not upgrade them as much as was worried about attracting raider in later levels. My economy is now 32k - but I get the real money from raids, the economy is a "just in case" for later levels. A few raids could easily net me 1-2million much quicker. My vault is still very small (50k) and so a lot of cash just sits there.

I limited my allies (now 15) depending on how much quality units I had and limited by slow unit upgrades. Valor units helped out a lot after I lost a crap load of bradleys/A10/submarines. I wouldn't mind losing a 50k unit, get 50k cash and gain 2 valor points. Then I got a bit worried about leveling up to fast but raiding was just too fun. Then the document event came along, so I leveled up like crazy to 21 to reach the better units. Currently I have 6 docs and am sleep deprived.

I have 600 attack and 500 defense - I don't see many people with more attack than defense :) but surprisingly I have not been raided much at all. I am waiting for a big raid on my base for me to justify buying for gold or upgrading defense units. I blew all my 10 gold early to finish construction but have thought about buying gold many times as those upgrades just kill you.

I have 20 stamina and only 320 energy but I have long stopped upgrading energy and putting them all into attack points now..

[bigflan]

Hi this is my first post. I started MW 4 days ago, and I completely agree with the OP.

I have had over 1000 fights (won 850) and I live for a raid! Thats 300 fights a day - i would literally add all my skill points to stamina and still die waiting for it to recharge! First I did all those crappy missions but worked out you XP and level up too much without $$. So by selectively picking cash rich raids I could pick up to 300k a raid by the time I hit level 17.

You could not beat me in a raid and were almost identical levels my defense is 600 with 8 allies so do not get to excited and level up fast are it will bite you later on

Then I realized at that level everything got real expensive to expand or upgrade, so I started adding a few money buildings but not upgrade them as much as was worried about attracting raider in later levels. My economy is now 32k - but I get the real money from raids, the economy is a "just in case" for later levels. A few raids could easily net me 1-2million much quicker. My vault is still very small (50k) and so a lot of cash just sits there.

I limited my allies (now 15) depending on how much quality units I had and limited by slow unit upgrades. Valor units helped out a lot after I lost a crap load of bradleys/A10/submarines. I wouldn't mind losing a 50k unit, get 50k cash and gain 2 valor points. Then I got a bit worried about leveling up to fast but raiding was just too fun. Then the document event came along, so I leveled up like crazy to 21 to reach the better units. Currently I have 6 docs and am sleep deprived.

I have 600 attack and 500 defense - I don't see many people with more attack than defense :) but surprisingly I have not been raided much at all. I am waiting for a big raid on my base for me to justify buying for gold or upgrading defense units. I blew all my 10 gold early to finish construction but have thought about buying gold many times as those upgrades just kill you.

I have 20 stamina and only 320 energy but I have long stopped upgrading energy and putting them all into attack points now..

You would not beat me in raid and were almost the same level and I have 600 defense but I have 8 allies don't get to ahead of yourself it will bite you later on

[digitalwalker]

Come on, it's his first post!

welcome! Freekizh! Hope u enjoy here!

[bigflan]

Why should I I'm giving him good info

[Mcdoc]

Why should I I'm giving him good info

Somebody kick Big Flan back down to Junior Member - LoL

[War Priest]

You would not beat me in raid and were almost the same level and I have 600 defense but I have 8 allies don't get to ahead of yourself it will bite you later on

Yeah what is with the bullying? Come to my cage and play with me tough guy. ;)

[bigflan]

I'm tryin to make a point here raiding should not be your main source of income and your economy is not your backup my income is 90k I don't have to raid to make loads of money and this allows me to buy units and buildings without going broke and by meaning not getting ahead of yourself he cannot to excepect to make lots of money through raiding in higher levels as if you lose a unit that costs 700 000 and you get 14 you lost so much money don't make that mistake

[bigflan]

And really how is this mean its constructive feedback

[Freekizh]

You would not beat me in raid and were almost the same level and I have 600 defense but I have 8 allies don't get to ahead of yourself it will bite you later on

I had a quite a few fights with guys with same defense as my attack, but I find that having additional attack points and valor units help reduce losses and increases wins. Quite often I just lose a bit of cash when I have a single failed attack. I mostly lose units when I win - weird. I'm also selective on my targets - depending on risk return, and how big I think their vault is.

But the point is there is a long way from my level to higher levels, and you can have more fun than just sitting around improving your economy. In fact the counterpoint is that it is also economical at lower to mid levels to raid without relying on your economy, and at higher levels with gold players, it seems you gotta have gold anyway to compete?

I try not to focus solely on economy and on gathering $$, and I upgrade my economy ONLY while waiting for expansion of land or construction or upgrading weapons buildings (a priority for me so I can be more competitive as I level up), which takes FOREVER. In fact I don't often need to collect $$$ as it is much slower than raiding at these levels. My only regret re my inexperience is not developing/expanding more land much earlier on...now it takes like 38 hours for one crappy block..

That was the main point of the OP right - and just saying its been my experience too!

[Freekizh]

Come on, it's his first post!

welcome! Freekizh! Hope u enjoy here!

Thanks DW - its a very informative forum!

[digitalwalker]

Thanks DW - its a very informative forum!

U r welcome:), and well written! I agree most of ur post. And thx for ur contribution

[Hellstorm]

As much as i respect other peoples strategies Camping is simply a waist of time and pre programmed loss of your time spent. Now I will tell you why that is.
In my case I leveled up way too fast, and I wouldn't recommend anybody to level in two and a half month to level 85. However, with almost 14.000 wins and less than 1800 losses I have some might in my statistics. How do you look like with 4000 losses and 50 wins? Pretty poor I would say.
Economically it is the best thing you can do... I make about 3-6 million every day in attacks and raids only. Plus my hourly income that is just over 200.000. If you don't take advantage of the nice low level payouts you will lack behind for the whole game... You will simply miss the jumps tart. Now I am doing better than 95% of the people in my level range with my stats... And only thanks to not camping. Sometimes you will have to camp... For a couple of days but then keep going again.
If you camp forever, then this game loses its purpose and is economically unsustainable. If you finally get to the point after a year to have finished your last building for instance nanotech then it will take you another 2 years to pay all that off. In other words you wait to continue waiting forever even if your economy is massive. The high paybacks will be paying off debt... Where as if earned in battle you are debt free. And if you are smart about making money through attacking and raiding than the money gain will always outweigh the unit loss by far.
Now you can continue to camp, waste a lot of time.... Or you can start playing.

[Dreno33]

As much as i respect other peoples strategies Camping is simply a waist of time and pre programmed loss of your time spent. Now I will tell you why that is.
In my case I leveled up way too fast, and I wouldn't recommend anybody to level in two and a half month to level 85. However, with almost 14.000 wins and less than 1800 losses I have some might in my statistics. How do you look like with 4000 losses and 50 wins? Pretty poor I would say.
Economically it is the best thing you can do... I make about 3-6 million every day in attacks and raids only. Plus my hourly income that is just over 200.000. If you don't take advantage of the nice low level payouts you will lack behind for the whole game... You will simply miss the jumps tart. Now I am doing better than 95% of the people in my level range with my stats... And only thanks to not camping. Sometimes you will have to camp... For a couple of days but then keep going again.
If you camp forever, then this game loses its purpose and is economically unsustainable. If you finally get to the point after a year to have finished your last building for instance nanotech then it will take you another 2 years to pay all that off. In other words you wait to continue waiting forever even if your economy is massive. The high paybacks will be paying off debt... Where as if earned in battle you are debt free. And if you are smart about making money through attacking and raiding than the money gain will always outweigh the unit loss by far.
Now you can continue to camp, waste a lot of time.... Or you can play this game like you got finally some balls for your birthday and become strong.

We appreciate your input of your opinion but the unnecessary offensive usage of words is uncalled for. Your definition of "strong" makes you weak. Now go level up thrice a day and have fun with your own game, leave the constructive criticism to kind people who weren't given balls on their birthday like you. Thank you, Hellstorm

[Hellstorm]

It seems like you feel personally attacked... Please don't :) be happy don't worry. Play the way you'd like obviously this is not meant for you but maybe somebody else will find some help in this. So relax and do your own thing. Even if that means waisting time we really play our own game.

Cheers

[Agent Orange]

Wow what a nasty thread this is....

Hellstorm makes a valid point, camping if not done right is a waste of time and since the first time that camping was discussed in these forums the devs have made some changes to the game which tends to take away some advantage to camping primarily forcing you to level up in order to gain access to some buildings. Personally I think you now need a far more balanced approach to the game, a combination of building up a strong army with strong defence also looking at the payback vs cost of money buildings. Another factor is how often you can play during the coarse of a day, in my case I have to be on a computer a good part of the day and into the evening so I have lots of time to keep an eye on my base ad therefore buildings with fast money recovery are more useful to me than expensive buildings that only pork out money once a day or longer.

I might take it a step further and suggest that valor farming is probably the fastest way to build a strong army short of buying one and being able to score cash plus valor is a huge bonus. I have been thinking of giving someone my current LLP and starting over with the emphasis on attacking and stockpiling valor to build an all Super Hornet force, granted that is a very fragile thing and not even close in terms of stats for someone who has an all gold army but I'm always looking for ways to push the envelop in a free player environment.

[Hellstorm]

Agent orange... Yeah I agree with you. One thing I find problematic with valor units is that they bid you farewell to fast :) so if you plan to stay an active attacker than you will suffer big losses of valor units over time. I spent over 40.000 valor on super hornets and all it's left is 8 of them. Ever since I have been collecting my valor for retirement :)
Going with an offensive strategy requires double if not more the work than playing defensive. Therefore it's a lot more complex and there is so many right ways to go. but if done right... The offensive strategy will pay of years prior to the defensive. That is why I believe people waist a lot of opportunities by camping.

[JohnnyR]

I lose a Super Hornet maybe every 100 attack/raids. Weird. Close to 300 in my arsenal here too...

[Agent Orange]

Yes agreed the Super Hornet is very fragile in fights so I have to pick wisely, but valor units seem to have a shorter shelf live than other units for some odd reason. I've currently got 400 SH's and 415 SF's in inventory and am working on unit density vs sheer quantity, would like to get to 500/500 or higher mix but in the mean time have been adding in B52's and Ballistic Missile subs which also tend to be fairly fragile in battle even though they have pretty high costs. Currently have 24159 fights won and 1589 fights lost many were of my own doing as I was experimenting but this gives you an awful lot of valor much of which I like to keep on hand in the bank.

[Hellstorm]

Nice... Some people are just lucky with their losses. I lost the super hornets almost as frequently as other low casualty rate units. Just too many :( I wish they were at least very low. 350 valor comes by easy... But when considering the sacrifices you did (unit loss) they become very precious. In my case the loss of super hornets was the same rate as far less precious units. Bummer

[Hellstorm]

Amazing stats... Good job. Also a good job on the units. You earned it the hard way.

[Dreno33]

It seems like you feel personally attacked... Please don't :) be happy don't worry. Play the way you'd like obviously this is not meant for you but maybe somebody else will find some help in this. So relax and do your own thing. Even if that means waisting time we really play our own game.

Cheers

i do agree with AO on how camping could be waste of time IF done incorrectly. you as well have given some good points but no one else will find this as useful information in rethinking their strategy when you speak to them like an *******. that is all I'm going to say. Just consider it on your next insightful post if you want to "help" others

[Hellstorm]

Listen dreno baby... I tried to be nice. if you have a problem and gonna keep crying like a baby go to bed. Stop complaining. You are offended that's fine with me but shot your little lips and continue camping instead of being offended where nobody and nothing but you is going nuts over. so chill out and leave your personal stuff outside of this thread... This is about conter arguments not about dreno being offended. Silencio now... This baby action is over now. Spare me.

[War Priest]

*Closed Thread* :D

[JohnnyR]

Tis just a game dudes.

[Thunder Child]

More exciting than the game!

[War Priest]

More exciting than the game!

I don't know. All of us are logged on but no posts being made...

[stricker]

*Closed Thread* :D


I don't know. All of us are logged on but no posts being made...
ohhh... hhhm.. look up there ^

[Dreno33]

I don't know. All of us are logged on but no posts being made...

oh hey congrats on 1000+ posts. they should have a new name for the member thing. like instead of senior member, at 1000 posts have "Elder Member" or something... idk can't think of anything good lol

[Dreno33]

ohhh... hhhm.. look up there ^

YAY! u used my suggested pic :D :D

hey war priest, after you told me about steve striker i looked up a funny golf pic for striker since he tends to post humor-orientated posts and he used it :D haha

[War Priest]

YAY! u used my suggested pic :D :D

hey war priest, after you told me about steve striker i looked up a funny golf pic for striker since he tends to post humor-orientated posts and he used it :D haha

Haha, ah. Was wondering why he changed it to that.

[stricker]

*Closed Thread* :D


I don't know. All of us are logged on but no posts being made...


oh hey congrats on 1000+ posts. they should have a new name for the member thing. like instead of senior member, at 1000 posts have "Elder Member" or something... idk can't think of anything good lol
the admin won't allow it... they already messed w/him and made him take a do-over on moving up from #7 (total post) to #6... HAHAHA... that was a good one 'admin' and WP didn't even get the humor in it.... ROTFLMAO!!!! ...it's like ADMIN Zeus toying w/the little mems to see what they will do! lol

[War Priest]

the admin won't allow it... they already messed w/him and made him take a do-over on moving up from #7 (total post) to #6... HAHAHA... that was a good one 'admin' and WP didn't even get the humor in it.... ROTFLMAO!!!! ...it's like ADMIN Zeus toying w/the little mems to see what they will do! lol

Yeah that was messed up. How many posts was it? Like 40? Wonder what ever did happen to those posts anyways.

[Luke7676]

oh hey congrats on 1000+ posts. they should have a new name for the member thing. like instead of senior member, at 1000 posts have "Elder Member" or something... idk can't think of anything good lol

I already picked out his new title a couple days ago. His title is now legendary lol

[stricker]

*Closed Thread* :D


I don't know. All of us are logged on but no posts being made...


Yeah that was messed up. How many posts was it? Like 40? Wonder what ever did happen to those posts anyways.packet collision... they've relegated you to a hub instead of a switch because your post or like a virus...

[Luke7676]

packet collision... they've relegated you to a hub instead of a switch because your post or like a virus...

Rofl good one strick :)