Mafia Size and the Bracketing Hypothesis

[Nicholost]

There's been some discussion around what the "correct" mafia size is. The common school of thought is that you should have the maximum mafia for your level (i.e. maxMafia = level * 5). I somewhat agree with that advice as long two conditions are true:

You can outfit all mafia members with items from each category
All items used are decent (i.e. top 80% of all your items in each category)

The second condition is my personal opinion. The logic behind it is that the quality of weapons in your inventory degrades rather quickly as you go down the list from best items to worst. For example, let's say I'm at level 100 and have 500 items in each category and 500 mafia members. I have the maximum mafia size and every mafia member is outfitted, so I have the "correct" mafia size, right? Well, not really. If I have been following the storyline, the last third of my inventory is filled with really crappy items; items that have less than 1% of the stats of my best item in the same category. So the 500th mafia member will have less than 1% of the attack/defense of that of my 1st mafia member. So I propose having a mafia size that equips down to your 80% mark, or if you have the idealized case above, 400 mafia (500 * 80% = 400).

If you do this, your stats will be numerically lower than they would be if you had 500 mafia. However, they won't be 20% lower, more like 5% lower because the last 20% have quite poor stats. (5% is an estimate and completely depends on your inventory.) So why would you do such a thing? You're now ~5% weaker. The answer: bracketing.

Bracketing
Through trial and error, it has become clear that Crime City has some kind of bracketing system in place; at least in the low to mid levels. It makes sense considering a player with amazing items and 100 mafia could still get crushed by a player with crappy items and 500 mafia. Brute force will likely rule over grace. To prevent this from happening, brackets are used to group players of the same range. Since bracketing based on stats would make rivals too closely matched and the game dull, Funzio chose to bracket based on mafia size and level.

Normal Distribution
Remember Probability & Statistics from college? Yeah, I tried to forget too. Anyway, you learn about this concept called Normal Distribution. Normal distribution is a probability distribution that produces a bell-shaped curve. That curve, conveniently enough, describes many phenomena in nature, industry, research, and I suspect even mafia size. I do not know this to be true though, but I suspect it’s the case.

What I cannot decide is whether the mean, μ, is the maximum mafia for that level or the maximum overall (500), but I’m guessing it is one of the two. Whether it's advice from the forums or their own conclusions, I've noticed that most players will increase their mafia size to one of those two limits. So it's safe to say the highest density of users hovers around one of the two and tapers outward from there... just like a normal distribution curve.

This is valuable because we can assume one thing to be true: the game adjusts brackets to ensure there are a minimum number of rivals for you to tussle with. We will call that unknown minimum "N" (because it's easier to type). Since the highest user density is in the low to mid levels, you have very narrow visibility to rivals (i.e. your level and/or one below) because N is easily met. As the herd thins into the higher levels, the brackets open up to include many levels and mafia sizes. That's the game adjusting brackets, or turning them off entirely, to ensure N is always met. That is also why the break-over from mid-level to high-level – when the bracket really opens up – keeps increasing; players are leveling up and the game is adjusting brackets to the changing density of users.

It would be valuable to know where the boundaries of your bracket are, wouldn't you agree? We don't know that though, and I strongly doubt Funzio is going to give it up. What we do know is that we can take the integral of the normal distribution equation to find the area under the curve between two limits. That equation is below (good luck):
http://www.funzio.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1135&d=1332231775

Hypothesis
I think that the integral of two limits is always the same at a given level. So, if the areas are the same and we know one set of limits, we can approximate the other set of limits. I’m no math expert and this is a big reach, so take this with a grain of salt.

Live Example
I am at level 89 with 280 mafia. I can see other users as low as 240 mafia and as high as 425 mafia currently. Notice the offset? I suspect the software offsets the bracket toward the denser population to keep the bracket as narrow as possible. Anyway, all I know are some theoretical limits found through experimentation. And I do not know what the mean, μ, or standard deviation, σ, are... or if this really is a normal distribution curve, for that matter. Those parameters don't matter much in this case because we're assuming they will be equal throughout our bracket calculations. So plugging our limits into our fancy online normal distribution modeler, we get some area.
http://www.funzio.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1132&d=1332228197

Now, let's say we want to find the limits of our rival with the most mafia (425) just to see if they will find me on their rival's list. We know the software offsets the bracket to the denser region, but in this case, it tops-out against the level limit of 445. That forces our lower limit down until we get to the same area.
http://www.funzio.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1134&d=1332228198

The Home Run
So according to this, my rival with 425 mafia cannot see me. I can see him, but I am off his radar. If he's meeting my two conditions listed above, he's much stronger than me. However, because I have limited my mafia in order to meet my two conditions, I am out of sight. And because most of my rivals are not meeting those two conditions, I am relatively stronger compared to those in my bracket, maybe the top 5% of my bracket. That means I can no-bank. :-) Yet, if I had maxed out my mafia size, I may only be in the top 30% because I'm using my crappiest weapons just for the sake of using them. And that's assuming I even have enough items to equip all my mafia. I can't no-bank in the top 30%.

Want proof? I've been no-banking for five weeks. I get attack and robbery attempts daily, as I should with over $1 million hanging out in the open. In that period, I have not had a single successful attack or robbery. Just say'n...

Also, here’s my prediction for what the limits will be for a level 100 player with a mafia size of 500. I would love for someone at that level and mafia size to confirm/deny those limits.
http://www.funzio.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1131&d=1332228197

Notes:
This analysis applies to CC v2.2.
Bracketing is certainly dynamic and will change as opponent density changes.
I am not a math expert and I do not claim to be one. If I made a goof or am way off base, call me out and I'll either fix it or get educated.
I used the below site for images.
http://davidmlane.com/hyperstat/z_table.html

[Whip88]

Nicholost,

This is impressive but I already new you were smart. I believe you nailed every part of this analysis and this should become sticky(not that kind of sticky).

[Santa]

+1 Nicholost!

Amazing analysis! This has to be stickied, or at least bumped forever.

[i need muney]

Funzio will delete this in a couple of months ;)
Nice work, Nic. This thang went deeper then it could. Lost me on the first "integral" lol

[Dravak]

Very good analyse sadly there is a additional something added , the attack and defense value and numbers of BOT players .

Since you will quit the game if there is nobody to beat , even the weakest players must feel that there are somebody worst off then them .
In economy attack and defense etc etc ... The rival list sometimes bumps you up according to your winning streak.
And lowers you again when you meet certain criteria .
One of the reason I love CC cause it is all very welldone, even the new developers or programmers did very well in adjusting the rival list , since the time I have been playing .

[Swifty]

@Nicholost

Thanks for the analysis. I have been adjusting my mafia size, looking for a sweet spot. Your efforts help me to think about how it works.

[Nicholost]

Very good analyse sadly there is a additional something added , the attack and defense value and numbers of BOT players .
If stats factor in, it's subtle, at least at the lower levels. My stats are equal to those of an opponent with 200+ mafia more than me, but they never show up on my rivals list, nor do I get attacked by them.

What are BOT players?


Since you will quit the game if there is nobody to beat , even the weakest players must feel that there are somebody worst off then them .
In economy attack and defense etc etc ... The rival list sometimes bumps you up according to your winning streak.
And lowers you again when you meet certain criteria .
I have not witnessed this either. Not too tut my own horn, but I haven't lost in awhile, yet I still can't see upward in levels. I actually think the game does not consider you recent winning and losing streaks when buildings the mafia list, but I haven't personally observed it. I will look out for that.

[white frog]

We will call that unknown minimum "N" (because it's easier to type)

Man, why you such a lazy typer???

[Nicholost]

Man, why you such a lazy typer???

Because I still peck at the keyboard. :p

[Dravak]

BOT players are not excisting players . So automated bots , that are there to give a sense that you are not alone.
They hardly grow or are active , there sole purpose is just so you have people to beat up and rob from .

So if you quit you become a BOT , but your buildings keep refreshing income for others to rob .

[Dipstik]

Isn't this like a baseball player refusing to move up from AAA league because he doesn't want stronger competition? I hear you never get attacked in sim city...

[white frog]

Very interesting analysis Nicholost. I haven't gotten into the detailed math as you have, but I have kept logs of my rival list for some time, and have noticed interesting patterns. It is notable that there is some sort of random element in this bracketing as well as everything else in this game. For example, I'm level 41 with 205 (max #) mobsters. My rival list is typically other level 41ers, with between 200-210. This proves the bracketing theory perfectly. However, once in a while I will get a strange "197" or a "214" thrown in there. This is either randomness, a glitch, or there is something else about these rivals that is pretty unique that is being considered when the system generates my rival list.

It's also worth mentioning that following this system is really only necessary when leveling up. Currently camping at level 41, my defense is incredible, but my attack sucks!!! I'm fine with this, because I'm camping. I'm not doing any attacking, so right now I don't need to equip my mob with attack. When I decide to level up, I will definitely stat them up quick, unless I plan to camp wherever I go. Defense will play more of a role in regards to my mob and mob size.

[Murda]

Great analysis. I factored this into account when I decided to no-bank for a while to build economy. I didn't go through the math like you did, but just with observational analysis found a sweet spot with my mafia. (between level 97and 102, between 90-150 mafia). I haven't banked in forever, 5-6 weeks maybe, and I am currently no-banking my way to a Nightclub.

I'm currently carrying $27.8 Million and nobody has been able to touch it. I did get one attack two weeks ago that I lost two explosive's, so that guy was the closest to breaking the bank.

Now by coming out on the board I may be inviting someone to come down to my level to beat my arse, but I don't care. It's a game. By my calculations I've got 3.5 days until I reach $40 Million for the Nightclub.

It would be beneficial to this analysis to get a few more people at different levels and mob size to record their rivals list. More data = better accuracy.

[Dravak]

Well murda already knew it , that is when I usually advice people who post on my comment section, other then ad me
What to do , increasing maffia size when you don't have the weapons or armour or vechicles for it .

Is just plain silly and simply push you into a higher bracket to be ganked , but at your bracket there are some solo gold players , who can easily rob all your money .
But they tend to not do that but want to be left alone to build etc .

[Nicholost]

Isn't this like a baseball player refusing to move up from AAA league because he doesn't want stronger competition? I hear you never get attacked in sim city...

Do baseball players actually do that? I mean, isn't pay jump from the minor to the major leagues a factor of 10, even if they suck?

The point I'm making is that if you do not meet my two criteria, you have more mafia than you should and are unnecessarily weak. In that case, you need to scale down your mafia size. In my case, one can argue that I'm too powerful for my bracket because I haven't lost a fight in five weeks, but the truth is that I am short 26 vehicles and past the 80% mark for armor and melee in both attack and defense. The only reason I'm strong is because I have some nice gold weapons. Without those, I would definitely have too many mafia for my level.


It is notable that there is some sort of random element in this bracketing as well as everything else in this game. For example, I'm level 41 with 205 (max #) mobsters. My rival list is typically other level 41ers, with between 200-210. This proves the bracketing theory perfectly. However, once in a while I will get a strange "197" or a "214" thrown in there. This is either randomness, a glitch, or there is something else about these rivals that is pretty unique that is being considered when the system generates my rival list.
I'm not one bit surprised by this for two reasons: 1) my brackets limits are determined from experiment over a short period with a small data set, and 2) Funzio has coded random elements into all aspects of this game, so it's no surprise that it would exist here as well.


It's also worth mentioning that following this system is really only necessary when leveling up. Currently camping at level 41, my defense is incredible, but my attack sucks!!! I'm fine with this, because I'm camping. I'm not doing any attacking, so right now I don't need to equip my mob with attack. When I decide to level up, I will definitely stat them up quick, unless I plan to camp wherever I go. Defense will play more of a role in regards to my mob and mob size.
Correct. If you're camping, only do this analysis for defense stats, if at all. If you really don't want to get robbed/attacked, reduce down to only henchmen. I'm not advocating that, but it would make you quite powerful for your bracket, especially if you spent just a little money on gold weapons.

[stixx]

Great analysis. I factored this into account when I decided to no-bank for a while to build economy. I didn't go through the math like you did, but just with observational analysis found a sweet spot with my mafia. (between level 97and 102, between 90-150 mafia). I haven't banked in forever, 5-6 weeks maybe, and I am currently no-banking my way to a Nightclub.

I'm currently carrying $27.8 Million and nobody has been able to touch it. I did get one attack two weeks ago that I lost two explosive's, so that guy was the closest to breaking the bank.

Now by coming out on the board I may be inviting someone to come down to my level to beat my arse, but I don't care. It's a game. By my calculations I've got 3.5 days until I reach $40 Million for the Nightclub.

It would be beneficial to this analysis to get a few more people at different levels and mob size to record their rivals list. More data = better accuracy.

funny to see that you are the only one who thinks he can build a NC with 150 mobs:P
as soon as you go past lvl 100 you can be seen by those high lvl players with with gangs of 100mobs, like i have.,
in that case i strongly suggest that you bank that cash:)

[Murda]

funny to see that you are the only one who thinks he can build a NC with 150 mobs:P

BTW - I have the necessary invites banked to get to 300 for the nightclub.

Back on Nicholost subject..... I took a few minutes during a conference call to log my rivals list (I logged 1000 Rivals). I did a histogram chart, but I've never inserted pictures, so text and numbers will have to do.

MY MAFIA SIZE IS 150:
All rivals were +/- 1 of my level

Rival Mafia size Frequency
125-135 - 65
136-145 - 75
146-155 - 49 - This is the group I fall in
156-165 - 48
166-175 - 61
176-185 - 79
186-195 - 45
196-205 - 54
206-215 - 25
216-225 - 51
226-235 - 63
236-245 - 85
246-255 - 59
256-265 - 68
266-275 - 21
276-285 - 26
286-295 - 38
296-305 - 30
306-315 - 15
316-325 - 18
326-335 - 10
336-345 - 5
346-355 - 8
356-365 - 2


You'll notice that during these 50 rivals list refreshes, there was a bottom cap at 125 mafia size, but the upper cap was much higher and doesn't act like a cap, more like the trailing edge of a distribution curve. The bottom cap acts more like a hard cap as there were still 7% in the lowest range of 125-135. If there was no cap, you'd expect another trailing edge dwindling towards 0 like the upper cap behaves.


83% of the rivals had larger mafia than me and had mafia from 151 - 363
17% were equal or smaller, but only had mafia from 125 - 150

One caveat - I did see a rival's list earlier today that had some 100-110's, but it shocked me to see them show up. that indicates that the bottom cap is not 100% unbreak-able, as there is some small percentage chance of seeing lower than the bottom cap.

Does anyone else have the time to log rivals to beef up this analysis? We can't truly understand the bracketing without multiple inputs from different levels and mafia sizes.

[Nicholost]

... data...

Good data like this is exactly what's needed to prove/disprove this hypothesis. My limits were determined from a dataset much smaller than yours, so I don't have a lot of faith in their validity. I used them more to prove my point about bracketing and how I think it works than to determine the hard limits. I would love to actually find the hard limits though. I wonder if I have any conference calls coming up...


You'll notice that during these 50 rivals list refreshes, there was a bottom cap at 125 mafia size, but the upper cap was much higher and doesn't act like a cap, more like the trailing edge of a distribution curve. The bottom cap acts more like a hard cap as there were still 7% in the lowest range of 125-135. If there was no cap, you'd expect another trailing edge dwindling towards 0 like the upper cap behaves.
I've also noticed a hard bottom, but not a hard top. The hard bottom is actually what gave me faith in the bracketing concept. Unfortunately, I haven't been diligent enough to keep track of my findings.

I wonder if the offset varies depending on where you are in the distribution curve or is a fixed number or percentage?


One caveat - I did see a rival's list earlier today that had some 100-110's, but it shocked me to see them show up. that indicates that the bottom cap is not 100% unbreak-able, as there is some small percentage chance of seeing lower than the bottom cap.
Yeah, I've seen it that as well. I know others have also because there's actually a thread asking how to make it happen more frequently (LOL). No one seems to know what causes it though. It's almost as if the software is adjusting brackets and you happened to catch it in the act, so the brackets are skewed. Or maybe this is the random variable having an effect on the rivals list. ???

[Ramshutu]

I have something interesting to add here.

1.) I am level 86, with 306 mafia and I can see people with up to to 428 used mafia. I can see level 85 people with up to 2000 mafia (of which 425 are actually used)

2.) every time I level up, my TL gets screwed as I can still only see up to 428 mafia, but none of the levels I can see hit the limit, so no one with 500!

3.) it's been this way for a few weeks, either this has changed above 81, or the rival list has been rejiggered. Normally, I can simply add a few mafia to see people at the level cap.

[Nicholost]

1.) I am level 86, with 306 mafia and I can see people with up to to 428 used mafia. I can see level 85 people with up to 2000 mafia (of which 425 are actually used)
So you can essentially see your upper limit. I theory, if N (that one's for you white frog) is still not met and your upper limit is against the maximum for the level, your limit will move down until N is met.


2.) every time I level up, my TL gets screwed as I can still only see up to 428 mafia, but none of the levels I can see hit the limit, so no one with 500!
As long as you are below level 100, you will never see a rival in the list advertising 500 mafia. Each rival may have 500 mafia or 5000 mafia, but the number displayed in the rivals list will never be more than the maximum for level, assuming you have visibility that high, which it sounds like you do.

It is weird that your limit is consistently 428 though. At level 85, you should have only seen up to 425 and no higher. At level 86, your current level, you should see up to 430, unless you are in a bracket where the upper limit stops just short of 430 (e.g. 428). However, Murda is observing that the upper limit is not a hard limit, so you may see 430 sometimes and ~423 other times assuming your bracket is close to the level maximum. If you're seeing 430 consistently, I would wager that your upper limit is against the level maximum and the lower limit has been pushed down to compensate.


3.) it's been this way for a few weeks, either this has changed above 81, or the rival list has been rejiggered. Normally, I can simply add a few mafia to see people at the level cap.
If you remove mafia, does your visibility to the the upper limit or 428 in your case decrease? Just curious.

[Ramshutu]

Just levelled up, and now I can see a bunch of people at level 86 with 430 mafia. Hmmmm...

[mnju_03]

Isn't this like a baseball player refusing to move up from AAA league because he doesn't want stronger competition? I hear you never get attacked in sim city...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA sim city...

I agree with Murda a little bit too. I remember around level 80-90 I NEVER got robbed/attacked. I actually thought it was due to some sort of wifi error... I got to a certain level and all of a sudden BROKE! lol

[Swearengen]

Does anyone else have the time to log rivals to beef up this analysis? We can't truly understand the bracketing without multiple inputs from different levels and mafia sizes.

i did the same thing last night, you want me to send you the data or post it?

MY MAFIA SIZE IS 297:
All rivals were +/- 1 of my level
Out of 1000 rivals,
Low end was 248
High end was 405

I fall in the lower third of that breakdown which might help explain why i have not been robbed or successfully attacked in the last 4 weeks or longer.

[transfer]

Thanks for your analysis.

I haven't done a sample data yet but can probably try it later.
While I can't provide data yet, I believe there is also a correlation in between your actual level and the max mafia members you can see.
The fact that whitefrog at lv.41 can't seem to see much higher than his 205 also hints at it.
Either that, or it's then dependant on your relative atk/def stats as well.

I'm lv.69 with 170 mafia members, my atk/def stats are not bad but they can't hold against a gold player yet. I do repel most than 90% of attacks though and still lose some robs.
While TL asks me to find rivals with 260+ members, I actually only saw as high as 244 and had refreshed list a good 50 times.
For exemple, stixx however could see up to 400+ members even with only 150 mafia members but is way higher level.

I'll try to make a sample for 1000 rivals as well when I can later trying to provide some data in.

[transfer]

In the same way as Murda, I have made a kinda "census" of my mafia list over 50 refresh (1000 names)
Again, i'm lv.69 atm with exactly 170 mafia.

I often saw same names especially in the 170-200 bracket but here's the complete breakdown :

140-149 : 76
150-159 : 123
160-169 : 144
170-179 : 130
180-189 : 148

190-199 : 146
200-209 : 71
210-219 : 69
220-229 : 69
230-239 : 24

240+ : 1 (243 mafia)


Lower end was 141 I think, higher end 243 although I've seen 244 once in the past.
Feel free to brainstorm any way with the data ;p

[Max Power]

Interesting analysis. Useful data if you intend to use it.

I refuse to make any meaningful changes in my mob size since the data mapping could change in 5 minutes. Actually, that's a fair bet.

[Santa]

Interesting analysis. Useful data if you intend to use it.

I refuse to make any meaningful changes in my mob size since the data mapping could change in 5 minutes. Actually, that's a fair bet.

I'm staying at 100 mafia for a while because it helps me calculate my attack and defense per mafia member rather easily. I try and stay around 40-45 per member.

[Swearengen]

Like Murda & transfer, I did the census with 50 refreshes as mentioned above. Here is the complete data.

MY MAFIA SIZE IS 297:
All rivals were +/- 1 of my level
Out of 1000 rivals,
Low end was 248
High end was 405

240-249: 16
250-259: 69
260-269: 29
270-279: 50
280-289: 71
290-299: 96
300-309: 88
310-319: 59
320-329: 90
330-339: 71
340-349: 88
350-359: 60
360-369: 29
370-379: 88
380-389: 29
390-399: 19
400-409: 48

[Swifty]

Those numbers suggest to me that I should further reduce my mafia size.

[mnju_03]

I really feel that after 2 NC's I want to seriously reduce my mafia size.

[Plux]

Nicholost - You've not factored into your equations, weighting from skill points and level multipliers. I'm not going to bring in nonsense such as weighted average cost curves, elliot wave theory etc but, I disagree with your equations and find them flawed as my rivals attacking me are sadly getting confused by the difficulties in beating me now with fewer Mafia but heavily weighted skill pointed Mafia (Henchman are your spanner in the works, The 500 Henchman vs 500 Mafia discussion for the future me thinks based on my findings anyway :cool:). I have a simpler, more effective and seemingly accurate method around the mafia rotations through a fight and I think you need to simplify a bit and accept skill points and level are more weighted into the effectiveness of your Mafia.

[Swifty]

Plux, could you explain that again using different words?

[mnju_03]

Plux, could you explain that again using different words?

**giggles**

[Pluxfan]

**giggles**

Go ahead and laugh loser you dont even know whar elliot wave principle is if you did you wouldnt be asking so high and mighty would you?????? No!!!!! So quit pretending and listen to the one and ultimate MASTER OF THE ENTIRE GAME. If you dont you are the one who is the fool.

[Nicholost]

I refuse to make any meaningful changes in my mob size since the data mapping could change in 5 minutes. Actually, that's a fair bet.
LOL. You make a good point.


Nicholost - You've not factored into your equations, weighting from skill points and level multipliers. I'm not going to bring in nonsense such as weighted average cost curves, elliot wave theory etc but, I disagree with your equations and find them flawed as my rivals attacking me are sadly getting confused by the difficulties in beating me now with fewer Mafia but heavily weighted skill pointed Mafia (Henchman are your spanner in the works, The 500 Henchman vs 500 Mafia discussion for the future me thinks based on my findings anyway :cool:). I have a simpler, more effective and seemingly accurate method around the mafia rotations through a fight and I think you need to simplify a bit and accept skill points and level are more weighted into the effectiveness of your Mafia.

I would argue that att/def skill points do not factor into how the game determines the rivals list. The skill point delegation is a player's way to offset themselves against rivals. It's intended to be mysterious, especially to rivals, so I contend that it does not play a role in how the software creates and defines brackets.

Even if my hypothesis is wrong, and there is a good chance it is, the point is that bracketing does occur and you should position yourself as strongly as possible within your bracket. So this thread is really just my attempt to explain how the brackets are determined because, as far as I know, no one has attempted to define it. More importantly, it's my attempt to come up with a guideline that folks can follow to better position themselves against rivals because of bracketing. So if anyone is going to take home anything from this thread, it is the two criteria that I listed at the beginning of the original post. If you follow those, you should be very strong compared to rivals. However, as you pointed out, you can do all you can to fend off rivals, but if a rival has delegated all or most of their skill points toward attack, they greatly increase the chance of overthrowing all of your defense efforts. That's the beauty of the game: there are unknowns and exceptions to rules/guidelines.

[emcee]

Been aware of how bracketing operates for a while now. If you are a true camper and want to avoid attacks/robberies then drop all alliance and you should be placed in the dead zone bracket. My level 8 camper account has only 5 losses/0 attacks and no robbery attempts since Nov 24, 2011. Level 54 account exited camping mode around Feb 20 2012 with just henchmen at level 24 and now have 99 mafia members.

You should never be at max mafia bracket unless you have literally the best respect items across the board. If you are consistently seeing people with substantially larger mob (25% or greater) it means you should either trim down your mob to drop down a bracket or should invest more into your inventory.
I've followed this on my level 54 account and have lost no robberies and only 2 attacks since late 2011.
I have the economy to easily outfit a mob of 500 but I choose to keep a trimmed mob to make my defense buildings more effective. Even with 99 member mob I don't have vehicles for all and not the best respect items or even cash items. The power of my defense buildings (including 40 odd gatlings) is more than enough to repel nearly all rivals.

Just keep it simple. Trim down mob buy defense buildings and win more.

[transfer]

Hey guys.

I saw that thread getting bumped so here's some food for thought.

Earlier in the thread, we talked about how far you could see your rival list and it was kinda admitted that it was dependant on your mafia size.

For exemple, at 170 mafa size, I could people with up to 260 mafia granted they're around the same level as me, however these people with 260 mafia can rarely "see back" the ones at 170.
This is something I look at quite often since I'm still doing my Thug Life objectives while trying to keep low mafia and it's not always easy to find people with enough mafia.
From observations, I believe these is a threshold with either mafia size or atk/def numbers and once you break it, you'll get access to a whole new range of mafia size members.

At lv.71 and 201 mafia, I had to do TL23 (300+ mafia members), I did 50 refreshes, 1000 members and never found any :

160-169 : 23
170-179 : 89
180-189 : 88
190-199 : 88

200-209 : 99
210-219 : 123
220-229 : 61
230-239 : 127
240-249 : 86

250-259 : 78
260-269 : 48
270-279 : 76
280-289 : 12, max was 288.

Now, I don't have detailed numbers, but I kept adding mafia slowly and refreshing list until I could find members with enough mafia. At the same time, I went to lv.72, added around 700 atk/def with weap/armor and went to 205 mafia members.

I can see people up to 350+ mafia now.

[fuzzy]

Nicholost,

So for the fun of it today ( a little slow at work ) I went from 405 Mafia to 280 to test your bracket hypothesis. I would love to be able no bank. It would reach me to 40 mill so much faster.

Level 81
Mafia Members - 405
Mafia Attack - 13,659 (33.7 mafia member)
Mafia Defense - 14,635 (36.1 mafia member)
Income Per Hour - $72,873

Current
Level 81
Mafia Members - 280
Mafia Attack - 12,118 (43.2 mafia member)
Mafia Defense - 12,542 (44.7 mafia member)
Income Per Hour - $72,873

Looking at my new rivals list they are all new players from what I can tell. Before everyone was sitting at 410 mafia members.

Now I see 260 up to 400 mafia members. I thought I would not be able to see those 400 mafia members any more? When I had that amount I never could find any of the players with 260,270...350,360 etc...members

They all seem a little weaker then me, but I'm sure there will be that gold player that crushes me. I shall give it a go for a while and see how I make out.

[kinghansen]

Oh no not the dreaded bell curve! Just kidding man, what a great way to prove the bracketing system. I think you may secretly be a math wiz. I always knew it was beneficial to stay at lower mafia levels and keep your mafia outfitted with high end equipment, and this proves it. Unlike you, I do lose sometimes, but very infrequently.

[SDX]

Hi guys,

Some amazing analysis in this thread! :)
I would please ask for some advice.
I'm sure someone already answered this, but can any of you bluntly tell me whether I should decrease my mafia size?
I am , like many, saving up for that awesome Night Club and I keep getting robbed more than I like. ;)
I'm at level 64 with almost 700 mafia members.
My Attack is close to 11K and Defense close to 17K.
I hate to just drop like 300 members, which I actively kept collecting, without someone actually acknowledging that this would be the best strategy for me "camping out" and collecting funds for that night club. ;)
I also, of course, have to bank and lose that 10% every time...

Thanks!
SDX


i4.com - Crime City and Gree Games Blog :) (http://i4.com)

[Sandukan]

Hi guys,

Some amazing analysis in this thread! :)
I would please ask for some advice.
I'm sure someone already answered this, but can any of you bluntly tell me whether I should decrease my mafia size?
I am , like many, saving up for that awesome Night Club and I keep getting robbed more than I like. ;)
I'm at level 64 with almost 700 mafia members.
My Attack is close to 11K and Defense close to 17K.
I hate to just drop like 300 members, which I actively kept collecting, without someone actually acknowledging that this would be the best strategy for me "camping out" and collecting funds for that night club. ;)
I also, of course, have to bank and lose that 10% every time...

Thanks!
SDX


i4.com - Crime City and Gree Games Blog :) (http://i4.com)
Yes drop the mafia.
At level 64 you will only use 320 in a fight anyway.
The rest will be standing around like those extra fighters in a kung fu flick that just bounce on their toes while circling the guy beating up all their buddies.

Why did you think you needed 700 mafia anyway?

[SDX]

Yes drop the mafia.
At level 64 you will only use 320 in a fight anyway.
The rest will be standing around like those extra fighters in a kung fu flick that just bounce on their toes while circling the guy beating up all their buddies.

Why did you think you needed 700 mafia anyway?

LOL, Thanks for the analogy Sandukan...a lot of people were just asking me to join themselves and I was accepting everyone.
I thought, the more the merrier! ;)
I actually thought that would be the logical part of the game strategy...to obtain the largest mafia size. :/
It's not going to be easy to get rid of like 400 members now...

[Jstaa]

Hey, I have 700 mafia and am trying to find out if I should remove some people or add more... On my rival list, I will get people with as high as 1000+ mafia members, and every once in a while I will get people with around 300 mafia, which usually have a much lower A/D than I do...

[Jstaa]

I also read that if you have a big mafia, you should just keep removing people until you have better stats than your rivals... and I think that with 700 mafia this is what I am going to do.

[Dipstik]

Shut up, Santa.

[Jong]

That was not cap of 500 members? I'm on level of 190, so I could have 950 but it depend on weapon stat too, rights?

"Your Mafia and Gaining Mobsters: Three. You now gain the potential to have five more mobsters. Your mafia is always limited to your level x 5. Currently it caps out at level 100 so you can have a maximum of 500 mafia."

[OneHoop]

Below level 100, your rival list will show the number that are used. So if your rival is level 60 with 484 mafia members, they will appear as 360 mafia members. Above level 100, it shows the actual number of mafia members, even though the number is used is just 500.

My experience is that if you are getting robbed, then you need to see about buying more equipment, if that is not a solution then you need to drop mafia members. Additionally, carrying more mafia members than you can use will just restrict who you can see in your rivals list. That's all you really need to know.

However, I collected some data on this before I saw this thread, and I thought that I would post it here so I can recycle that piece of paper! I used slightly different ranges, having not seen this thread, oblahdee...

At the time, I was level 82 with 216 mafia members and did 30 refreshes, my distribution was bimodal (approximately)
141-150: 30 ------------------------------
151-160: 25 -------------------------
161-170: 65 -----------------------------------------------------------------
171-180: 57 ---------------------------------------------------------
181-190: 52 ----------------------------------------------------
191-200: 34 ----------------------------------
201-210: 32 --------------------------------
211-220: 41 ----------------------------------------- *
221-230: 27 ---------------------------
231-240: 34 ----------------------------------
241-250: 24 ------------------------
251-260: 25 -------------------------
261-270: 23 -----------------------
271-280: 27 ---------------------------
281-290: 19 -------------------
291-300: 15 ---------------
301-310: 46 ----------------------------------------------
311-320: 44 --------------------------------------------
321-330: 30 ------------------------------
331-340: 37 -------------------------------------
341-350: 21 ---------------------
351-360: 25 -------------------------
361-370: 05 -----
371-380: 16 ----------------
381-390: 04 ----
391-400: 12 ------------
401-410: 05 -----


M@