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erik
03-20-2012, 12:43 AM
I have been very pleased to have something new to do in the game and have often opened over 22 chests in a day, the most being 24 in 24.5 hrs. I have kept stats on all aspects of my events (save post sig in event 1). I am a gold buyer, but not for these events... for different reasons.

I think this event fell flat for both players and Funzio for a few reasons, but first the positive.

1. Always great to have events for a change of pace, and an opportunity to receive gold level loot for free.
2. Creative and useful end weapon.
3. Well designed event format used again. The last event had a lot of very good feedback, and most paying customers, and a good number of non-paying dedicated hard core players and some more fortunate moderate players ended up with the ultimate prize.

The problem:
There are 4 possible variables on the event as designed.
1. Time
2. Open %
3. Stone(Emerald) % on an opened chest
4. Cost to open/Cost to speed up

It seems that Funzio chose to change all 4 from the last event, 2 known and 2 unknown (for much of the event). Obviously it began almost a day shorter (12% less time), and cost to open and cost to speed up were 50% higher.

The unknowns were:
Open % change: - The first event with a population of over 100 boxes, the open rate was 39.42%.
The current event with a population of over 125 boxes, the open rate was 31.0%.
This is not going to be exact, but perhaps the official rates may have been about 40% and 30%.

This would be a decline of 25% open rate.

Stone % change: - This is not something I can really calculate from my own experience, but it is clear from huge amount of anecdotal evidence in the event thread that many individuals spent over 2500-3000 plus Gold and may not have even garnered another stone!! In the first event I received 10 diamonds in 41 opens. In this event I received 7 stones in 40 opens. As the last 3 stones are much harder to receive, it may well have been multiples of 40 opens as many have shared.

So 12% shorter
25% less opens
X% less stone drops
and 50% increased cost for gold players.

I would argue that changing this many variables from one event to the next created a rope-a-dope of sorts for the community. We saw the price increase and assumed the last event had been successful for gold buyers, and either it was a little bit to easy to spend ones way to a sig, or that players would be willing to pay more. And we had less time which would increase pressure to spend... okay, good business plan.

However, what we found was not only these changes, but drastic open and drop changes. A reasonable consumer should not assume anything, BUT the near identical style event and the already apparent changes left the community unprepared for such large changes.

I think worst outcome was the current regular gold buyers who starting buying and impulsively continued until they had their item, or worse, did not. Many long term spenders have expressed anger, frustration, refusal to purchase in the future, and a feeling of regret or lack of pleasure in actually receiving the item.

Many Hard core gamers like myself who wanted to try a non-gold run at the item (and others) have found themselves disappointed at the possibility that events are really gold only save a few lottery winners. Barring changes (which will be apparent 2 or so days in to an event) I realize that I can easily collect my 7, but have no expectation for the exciting prize. I had no expectation that I would automatically receive the big prize, and would have made a last minute gold run for it even. The forum feedback kept me from making that mistake thankfully.

I am sure there are casual players who are happy with this event, but I expect it is much more likely that players are left less enthused about events, dissatisfied with their spending, tricked, even angry. To make matters worse, the secondary loot was really terrible for higher level players. 1 of the potential items raised my attack by 2 points. All others were useless. There is no doubt that this will be the last spending experience for many 1st time, and some long time buyers.

On Funzio's part, I do not think they looked to pull the Rope-a-dope on players. Like any business, it is in their interest to delight their customers as they receive maximum profit... or eventually they make no profit.

What is inconceivable for this business owner is the following:

If Funzio felt that too many players received an item intended to be rare (sig) and had a desire to reduce the rare item in the emerald event OR felt the need to boost the event profits by a particular margin...

WHY in the world would you change all 4 variables? This has completely removed your ability to evaluate how specific changes would bring Funzio closer to its desired result. And it has greatly changed player expectations so that new changes will not necessarily have the results they would have in the future.

Furthermore, the significant income boost received in this event will not reflect many of our willingness to spend in the next event... although the potential for a more profitable event with delighted players was surely there.

As stewards of your customers money and time, it does not appear that the decisions for this event were careless, not thought through at all, or with regard for the cash a loyal customer could toss away.

We have lost trust through this event, and for some, the incidents before the event.

I think the community greatly desires these innovative events, and other types of future ideas, but will require greater information from Funzio on changes and expectations. Perhaps framed against the first event as a point if reference. If burning 3000k plus gold with no results will be common... let us know.

I have always been supportive of funzio, enjoy this product, but I have had the first drop in interest and excitement for the game and its future.

Best of luck addressing these issues, looking forward to a comeback.

Erik

Note: Please add reflections positive and negative on this event so funzio can consider them seriously. Lets not make it a rant fest or gold vs. non-gold thing. Lets even hold off on bashing 499ers.

Also: Im exhausted from this week, so I hope it is not the rambling pos it looks like.

ReaperZer0
03-20-2012, 01:00 AM
I think that the chance to get to the top level should be obtainable by someone who opens one every other hour (assuming sleep) for the entire event, if they open with the in-game cash option everytime. They should at least be a lot closer to 10 than I got (6). I have 14 left over as of now, and I don't have high hopes (or any hope for that matter) that I'll get 4 more from those. What will probably happen is I'll get like 4 "Better Luck Next Times" per safe, followed by a random bit of mediocre loot. This will repeat possibly a few times, then the game will crash for no reason (as it likes doing) and that'll be the end of it. I was damn lucky to get my Sig in overtime on the last lockbox, but things should be a little more balanced for non-gold players.

Looking at it from another viewpoint, it should actually be a pretty easy thing to get if people are willing to put in the time and (in-game) cash. Why? Because if you give someone an advantage in a game, something that makes them happy... guess what they're going to do? Stick around. It doesn't matter if a lot of people get it too, they feel they've gotten something that gives them a leg up, so they want to keep playing. People that keep playing are more likely to pay than people that STOP playing. Obviously.

Dravak
03-20-2012, 05:00 AM
Marvelous post , what angers me the most , is not the money spent .
But the ridiculous amount of hours lost cause of not sleeping , and no option on last day of buyout for people who didn't get it .

From the previous event and also MW I learned the earlier you start spending gold the cheaper and bigger chance you get the reward , if the even it is set that only 1% of the people get the item instead of 10%
Then stop raising the prices of the gold bar , the reasoning for the gold bar is when people had enough and want to go to sleep .

Who cares really about 10% fee of banking , we played this game trough all this time without it .
The +1 RP was more overpowered then banking fee. It just that the free banking makes this game a bit more enjoyable .

But the road to get it was more of a frustration then FUN , future event if they have these kind of ods with even more steep reset on gold cost . Then atleast put in a buyout price of 2500 gold for the final item .
When criteria of 8-9 are meet on the final day .
Then people can decide for themself to click buttons and gamble or hit the buyout .

As for me I will refrain from participating in future event , cause this event made me feel like a gamble addict .
So never again !

Swifty
03-20-2012, 05:08 AM
It was a successful event for me.

I did not spend any gold, and I got some gear that was better than I already had.

Dravak
03-20-2012, 05:12 AM
It was a successful event for me.

I did not spend any gold, and I got some gear that was better than I already had.

Sadly swifty going to give you the realist view , that might shock you .
1 hour every day , could be spent to make $5 dollar atleast so the event did cost you money you could have earned.

So how many hours you spent waiting for the chest to open , count your money lost in that .

Swifty
03-20-2012, 05:16 AM
@Dravak

Interesting point, but I can multi-task.

i need muney
03-20-2012, 05:21 AM
I imagine Swifty sitting glued to his phone, with his eyes peeled on the timer. Doing nothing but nervously biting nails hour after hour :)

Swifty
03-20-2012, 05:23 AM
Now that you mention it, my fingernails look majorly goofed up.

How did that happen?

i need muney
03-20-2012, 05:26 AM
You shouldn't sleep with your hand in a rathole......I guess.....<_<

Nudie
03-20-2012, 06:21 AM
@erik
Great post and spot on. I hope Funzio reads and digests the points. They should if they care about their customers.

erik
03-20-2012, 11:37 AM
Any others out there that tracked their actual % and can support or dispute my open %s? Not to mention any more that spent an massive amount of Gold without any movement that did not post in the event thread that we should be aware of.

Ramshutu
03-20-2012, 11:57 AM
Regardless of the chance of opening/receiving diamonds/etc, one Big chance I would like to see on the next event is to see increasing 'special effect' as well as stats.

For example, in this event, if the 3x item was the same, the 5x item could have the special effect of lowering the banking fee to 7%. The 7x item could then lower it to 4%, with the final one eliminating it completely.

This would have made me, and I'm sure other people, invest gold who wouldn't have wanted to risk sinking cash in for just a few stats.

Also, it would be very useful (and has been mentioned) to be able to purchase diamonds/emeralds, with an appropriate exponential cost (based on your business models).

Nicholost
03-20-2012, 12:13 PM
Any others out there that tracked their actual % and can support or dispute my open %s? Not to mention any more that spent an massive amount of Gold without any movement that did not post in the event thread that we should be aware of.

I tracked mine. (Clicky (http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?22339-Wall-Safe-Results-Breakdown&p=138552&viewfull=1#post138552)) I opened exactly 100 wall safes, all with the medium option and no timer resets. OF those 100, 42 were opened successfully. I think your estimation of the medium option being somewhere between 30-40% is accurate; it is definitely below 50%.

Also, that is an exceptional post. I completely agree that changing all four variables was a mistake and did more harm than good. I also agree that it turned off a lot of potential gold spends and turned away a lot of existing gold spenders. I had an affect on me in that it reinforced that I will not spend any gold on any unknown chance in this game, ever. While crates are a chance, at least their percentage chance is published.

With that said, the event was a huge success for me and I loved it. I can say that because I went in with a realistic goal of getting five emeralds and the personal rule to not spend any gold, even if I was sitting at 9 emeralds. I succeeded in both, so it's easy to feel pleased rather than upset.

Burn
03-20-2012, 12:19 PM
Only just read this, the opening post of this thread is about the best bit of sensible analysis I have read on here lately. Nice work Erik.

Vile Lynn
03-20-2012, 12:43 PM
@erik, Excellent post. Thx.

I'm happy with the event. I knew I wouldn't get 10; hoped for 7 & got them using the medium mostly for the 7, but used the free option after getting 7... got a few nice things with the free option which was a sweet surprise.

Location of reset timer: I know why Funzio places the reset timer in the same place as open, but I really wish they would change this. I reset the timer once with 5 mins left during the lockbox event & was refunded 10 gold within 24 hours of contacting support. (Thank you so much, Funzio support, awesome!) I did the same thing again, lost 15 gold, but ate it this time. (yucky!)
If Funzio is taking a lot of requests for timer-reset mistakes & refunding gold, save your time & move it to the top.

Rhino72
03-20-2012, 01:00 PM
+ 1 Erik. Great post and should be forwarded by the devs around to the company. For higher levels, once you got your 7th emerald you really couldn't get anything that you didn't plan on replacing by farmed loot in the future so that was disappointing. Give us an option to take 10 fire trucks and turn them in for a 100 gold vehicle option, or 10 widow makers for a 100 gold gun option, etc... If you have the concept or tiered 10 stone loot drops the same concept should be used but keep raising it for levels past 81 + (101 - 120, 121 - 140, etc...) You are rewarding the people that have put a good amount of time into the game and future levels should be able to work up levels and have the same chances.

I got the first 8 emeralds with the medium chance and letting the timer fully reset. Averaged 15 - 18 openings a day. I bought 3 vaults of gold to try and get the 9 and 10 with numerous reset timer options. I have 21 Widow Makers ; 18 Room Sweepers ; 16 Rasta Fatigues and 19 Fire Trucks. Throw in at least 15 each of the 500 Respect ; 125K and 25K (boy I hated seeing the cash!) and you see where I went with this. Between opening and resetting timers I spent @ 3K gold.

I enjoy the game but the odds seemed much tougher this time. The gold option was increased by 50% and no sale was offered which made it even more painful. I like the idea of sales or even being able to buy that last emerald as has been suggested. Even at the fair, the guy at the hoops stand will let you purchase the big teddy bear if you don't get the ball in.

Robin Hood
03-20-2012, 01:34 PM
+1 Erik

Long time lurker, first time post-er.

Like Nicholost, I used 100% medium cash / blow torch option with no timer resets. My results were as follows:

87 attempts (28 successful opens):
7 Emeralds
5x Rasta Fatigues
1x Widow Maker
3x Room Sweeper
2x Fire Truck
3x 500 respect
3x $125K
4x $25K

Anecdotally (I realize after typing this, it should probably go on a different thread: please pardon my inexperience):

I was extremely lucky to get the 10th Diamond during the last (lockbox) event. I was setting my iPhone alarm every hour using the medium option and was stuck on 9 for the last couple of days. I am ashamed to admit that I couldn't get to sleep on the last night because I was so disappointed that I hadn't managed to get the Heater (I was < lvl 80 at the time). I tossed and turned until about 2 AM when, against everything in my being, I succumbed and bought 240 gold. Adrenaline pumping, I burned through a few timer resets and got the 10th with about 80 gold to spare. I immediately felt a bizarre mixture of utter satisfaction and utter embarrassment with myself. I couldn't believe I had just spent $20 of real money, on a made up weapon in a made up game. My wife was exponentially less impressed than I was. As I continued to read through the forum, I realized $20 was actually chump change compared to what some players had shelled out.

For this event, I had initially considered buying a similar amount of gold to make a run at the burner on the last day. Again, with the help of the forum, I realized pretty early on that it just wasn't going to be worth it. Once I got to lucky number 7 with two days left, I was pretty happy and actually kind of lost interest.

There is a part of me that is absolutely flabbergasted that anyone would be willing to spend hundreds, or even thousands of dollars on any kind of virtual entity. Having said that, I didn't blink an eye at a $176 Vegas & Jager Bomb tab Saturday night and I have decidedly less to show for it ... apart from a hang over that extended well into yesterday evening.

L Fizzle
03-20-2012, 01:35 PM
Meeting with the dev gang in 30 minutes....will be sharing this awesome *constructive* feedback! Thanks, guys!

Nicholost
03-20-2012, 01:40 PM
There is a part of me that is absolutely flabbergasted that anyone would be willing to spend hundreds, or even thousands of dollars on any kind of virtual entity. Having said that, I didn't blink an eye at a $176 Vegas & Jager Bomb tab Saturday night and I have decidedly less to show for it ... apart from a hang over that extended well into yesterday evening.

Haha! That hit close to home. I think we've all shared that "oh ****, how much did I just spend" bar tab experience.

Santa
03-20-2012, 01:47 PM
+1 Erik. Another amazing constructive feedback discussion!

I think a baseline goal for these events would be to give non gold players a fair chance to get at least a 7 diamond/emerald/whatever reward. My goal was to reach at least 7x emeralds and get the assassination pistol. I did complete this, but jus barely. I'm not saying every single non gold player should get a 10x reward. But at least give us a better chance at the 7x weapon. The "medium" rate is fine with me, IMHO the problem is the shortened event length.

A good thing about the event design was the chance, albeit a slim one, for a non gold player to receive a 10x reward. Congrats to Ram on his accomplishment!

Cheers!

duelblade
03-20-2012, 01:50 PM
Meeting with the dev gang in 30 minutes....will be sharing this awesome *constructive* feedback! Thanks, guys!

wow...I would love to be a fly on the wall in that meeting and hear the flip sides opinion.

Robin Hood
03-20-2012, 01:51 PM
Even at the fair, the guy at the hoops stand will let you purchase the big teddy bear if you don't get the ball in.

Love this imagery

Burn
03-20-2012, 02:52 PM
My wife was exponentially less impressed than I was..

Lol, You volunteered the info. Never do that. ;)

Nicholost
03-20-2012, 02:55 PM
Lol, You volunteered the info. Never do that. ;)

Yeah, wait until she sees the charge on the bank statement before disclosing this information.

Luke 3457
03-20-2012, 04:56 PM
Great post! I was very happy with the last event I spent minimal gold and received the sig. This time however I felt a bit fooled with the change of the variables you mentioned. For me I will never spent gold on another event that's for sure. So funzio may have had larger profit margins this time and made more overall compared to the last event. I'm sure though many feel as I do and unless certain changes in price or drop rate are made and were actually aware of these changes they won't make nearly as much in their next event. I also agree with the pitiful loot items which did little or nothing to help my overall stats. The cash prize of 25k was laughable considering I payed 13,300 to open the wall safe! Big changes need to be made for the next event before I'm a willing participant.

Whoopdido1980
03-20-2012, 05:33 PM
So it sounds like many of you are looking for a "guaranteed win" option. Is that what we're talking about here? Some of you seem to be saying "I spent X amount of gold, so I deserve the end prize." if Funzio did that, it wouldn't even be considered an event. Just sell the Emerald Burner for 1,500 gold or 2,000 gold or whatever. The fact that there's no guarantee is what makes it interesting. Or just buy the new limited time vehicle called the Eye in the Sky for 860 gold with stats of 256 attack and 191 defense. I forget the stats for the Emerald Burner but I think they were fairly similar, except for the no bank fee thing which isn't a huge deal in my opinion.

If you want to increase your attack by 250 plus, it's extremely easy...just buy a gold weapon. Why anybody would spend 3000 gold to just get one weapon boggles my mind. That 3000 gold could have bought 3 Eye in the Skys and still could have bought 2 sets of 3 crates. All in all a 1000 point increase in stats would have been possible.

These events are a way to hopefully get say a 300 point stat increase for maybe $1 million or so. Using gold is just plain silly since actual gold items increase your stats more anyway unless you're really interested in that extra gain like no bank fees or extra respect.

Euchred
03-20-2012, 05:43 PM
I hate to admit it but Funzio really reeled me on this one. Put me in the category of a lot of gold spent trying to get from emerald 9 to 10 with no success.

And for the record thte stats of the burner could have been 0/0 and I still would have went for it.

Robin Hood
03-20-2012, 05:47 PM
If you want to increase your attack by 250 plus, it's extremely easy...just buy a gold weapon. Why anybody would spend 3000 gold to just get one weapon boggles my mind. That 3000 gold could have bought 3 Eye in the Skys and still could have bought 2 sets of 3 crates. All in all a 1000 point increase in stats would have been possible.


+1 Whoop

Couldn't agree more here. Players willing to shell out thousands of gold for the *chance* to get a unique weapon shouldn't complain if they come up short. Furthermore, as long as there are dozens of players willing to hemorrhage RM to no end, why would Funzio change the event format?

I have no problem with Funzio making money ... after all profiting is generally what a company is designed to do. I guess in a perfect world, it would be nice for both sides if the events were formatted in a way that 10 players could spend $20 each and be happy rather than one player desperately spending $200 and being incredibly disappointed.

mnju_03
03-20-2012, 05:48 PM
I hate to admit it but Funzio really reeled me on this one. Put me in the category of a lot of gold spent trying to get from emerald 9 to 10 with no success.

And for the record thte stats of the burner could have been 0/0 and I still would have went for it.

RFLMFAO but sad... but funny...

Robin Hood
03-20-2012, 05:53 PM
Yeah, wait until she sees the charge on the bank statement before disclosing this information.

Not only am I a forum newbie, but also a relative newlywed (Oct 2011). Your marital advice may be more useful over the course of my life than anything on this entire forum, CC related or othewise ...

erik
03-20-2012, 05:56 PM
That is not the point of the original post at the very least. A truly successful event would be one where both Funzio and the players are pleased with the outcome.

It does not mean that everyone gets the best reward, but that there is a reasonable understanding of the event based on communication and past precedence and there is the ability to reasonably press forward based on invested effort or money. They need to feel value and confidence in the possibility of a good outcome with fair rules.

Funzio needs to build their customer base, delight them, and stoke a path for future profits. They need to make current profit on the event for their invested effort.

None of that has to equate to getting the burner... but at some level of commitment or investment it is the reasonable outcome.

They need to determine what that point is, and I think in this instance they made it a harder path to reach.

No one wins if everyone spends on one event and are unhappy.

It is easy to point at everyone as though they are just whining, but it really is the company's job to see set expectations to meet customer satisfaction. Telling folks that major statistical changes had been implemented and that spending 3k Gold might not even move a player one stone could have done that! Players would have adjusted their consumption to a place they were comfortable.

If someone can not at least acknowledge that, they are probably a troll. :)

It is funzios move now, and I hope they nail it.

Euchred
03-20-2012, 06:01 PM
i hope so too erik, I love the game and not getting the burner doesn't change that. All I can say is you're spot on.

Theonhr
03-20-2012, 08:48 PM
I agree completely with Erik. I spent 3000 gold for 8 stones in the end and won't be participating in future events. I was suckered into thinking I could get the Burner from the first event where a much more modest outlay of gold was required. I take full responsibility for spending the gold but trouble for Funzio is I'm not the only player feeling this way and with good reason.

Jill
03-21-2012, 12:45 AM
Great Thread Erik very constructive.

I used gold upto receiving 5 stones then realised I was never going to make the 10 required so went the blow torch option from then on. Ended with 8 and the last was received with 1 hour to go. Overall it was good event but as Erik states the stats where certainly against most of us from the start.

Ghost3
03-21-2012, 09:26 AM
Such a good post OP, so good that I have to chime in.

I got the sig from the previous event but what drove me to using gold was getting to 9 diamonds on the last day from free... For the people that work and thus have the real ability to invest rm into the game getting so close, I was more then willing to burn gold on that last one... I ended up dropping about 400 gold on it and would have done the same on this event but the chances of success were eluded to being slim to none in the first post about the event by cc mark...

Anytime a company that has done some recently understandable but questionable changes to the game states "there's an increase in diff to find emeralds as you collect more" told me don't even waste your time.

To summarize my opinion of a successful event, it would be the dia sig, how many people actually spent gold and came out happy? Willing to spend on the next vs emerald event... Those who did spend, won't spend again, and others who just flat out didn't spend because of the information available? This recent event will probably hurt more then help

Vile Lynn
03-21-2012, 12:23 PM
Meeting with the dev gang in 30 minutes....will be sharing this awesome *constructive* feedback! Thanks, guys! Thanks, L, too.

...wondering how the meeting went.

L Fizzle
03-21-2012, 01:31 PM
Thanks, L, too.

...wondering how the meeting went.

Meeting was a short and sweet. I shared your feedback and even had some deeper discussions offline with some other product influencers. I can't promise that everything you guys want will change...but I can tell you that I'll do my best to get it at least heard by the right people. :)

Santa
03-21-2012, 02:10 PM
Meeting was a short and sweet. I shared your feedback and even had some deeper discussions offline with some other product influencers. I can't promise that everything you guys want will change...but I can tell you that I'll do my best to get it at least heard by the right people. :)

Cliche answer but at least there's hope! Hope the meeting was fun. Most of the meeting my parents go to are torture.