Is it possible to play this game focusing on fighting rivals to buy units?

[BabaYaga]

I've been playing this game for 5 days now and I'd like some opinions on whether its possible to play this game with an actual PvP focus or if you're forced to take the extremely long and slow route of building up money buildings that give ever diminishing returns and ever longer build/upgrade times?

I'm level 31, been playing for 5 days. For the first day or so I followed the in-game recommendation and increased my energy and did missions. I found that rapidly got tedious so I stopped that and started exclusively attacking rivals. I have won 2340 fights so far and lost 197. I find I can earn around $100-200k per hour from fighting, although a few times rivals have taken substantial cash off me since I've built up 6 or 7Mil at times, not really seeing anything worthwhile to buy with it. I've focused on valour units for their value and stats.

Here's the problem: I recently bought 11 Super Hornets. In the last 100 battles I have lost 8 of them. So thats 2800 Valour lost. In the same 100 battles I have gained about 410 Valour, including the Goal reward from attacking rivals. Is this the way the game is designed on purpose? I can't raid and fight my way up for cash and valour? I have to build money buildings? Cause these things are ridiculous IMO. The first buildings you get your outlay returned in hours. The next ones, my return will take days. Then weeks, then by the top, if I buy a "money" building, I have to wait one and a half months(!) before I even get back the cash I first put into it. And the waiting times are starting to become ridiculous for upgrades etc. I have to wait 5 days to upgrade my War factory another level to get some M270s? I was going to buy some stealth bombers next, I can't wait to see the wait times for a lvl 8 advanced airbase.

I can't seem to find solid information about the game mechanics anywhere which is weird for a strategy game, so I thought I'd ask all you experienced folks: is it possible to play this game focusing on fighting/raiding rivals and buying units with the spoils?

Any information to help me choose whether to pursue this game would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
BabaYaga

[Mcdoc]

Babayaga - there are several really good strategy threads that help you do exactly what you are trying to do.

Most of all - you should ALWAYS have an Expansion, a bldg upgrade, and a vault upgrade in progress - AT ALL Times - that helps consume some cash & you will eventually need it.

Look for "strong against" units for extra bonuses - especially against air units since a lot of people are buying Hornets & Offspreys right now. Beef up your Stamina skill points to 30 so you can attack & attack & attack - but don't foret to buy a lot of high defense units for when people come back to raid your base.

Click on my name to read several of my past few post as I have laid out some very detailed "attack" strategies recently in some other threads.

Good luck & Happy Hunting :).

[Mcdoc]

Oh yeah - if you build up a lot of loot units - like the Amphibious one from the Docks - you will stop losing the other paid for units like your Hornet as often :)

[Agent Orange]

Oh yeah - if you build up a lot of loot units - like the Amphibious one from the Docks - you will stop losing the other paid for units like your Hornet as often :)

I would say no, at least in the levels I'm playing high value valor units are very vulnerable. I have a lot of PvP loot and it does help to a point. But the game has had some slight changes which make attacking a lot less lucrative than ever.

The one thing I've found is that today's strategy may not be tomorrows because the games under lying mechanics seem to be in a state of constant evolution which makes it all the more complicated to form a long term strategy.

Currently with such high losses of valor units it's best to recon any rivals who like attacking you and pinpoint their vulnerabilities. Then build your defences such that they target those areas so that attacks on you prove to be more costly than any valor gains they can make. I also suspect that high defense skill points can cause some interesting losses.

[Wildfire]

Currently with such high losses of valor units it's best to recon any rivals who like attacking you and pinpoint their vulnerabilities. Then build your defences such that they target those areas so that attacks on you prove to be more costly than any valor gains they can make. I also suspect that high defense skill points can cause some interesting losses.

I suspect that too, the same person was visiting me day after day when my defense was mostly medics, ambulances and sea scouts, at end of last week when I noticed how many hornets he had I pumped everything I had into global hawk drones till I had as many drones as he had hornets, he hit me once and hasn't been back since. I really wish you could see the other side of the fight.

[Maverick50727]

I would say no, at least in the levels I'm playing high value valor units are very vulnerable. I have a lot of PvP loot and it does help to a point. But the game has had some slight changes which make attacking a lot less lucrative than ever. ...
I agree it appears to be too costly at this point. I tried a test of about 100 PVP and found that after replacing all the items lost with equal or better, I was able to break even. Meaning that in the end after replacing my losses left me at the same attack/Def stats I started with roughly. You will lose some loot items and gain others. However, 10 attacks typically lost me 500K in in lost cash units. I also replaced all lost valor units and loot farming times where I could. In the end I was the same A/D stats with 1-2K in valor increase. When I bought the super hornets yes my stats increased, but at what cost? I call it break even as my economy allowed me to replace the lost items but still have some net in valor to increase.

Is this a long term strategy (absolutely not for a free player)? You MUST have an economy to replace lost items IMO. At some point the valor goals run out and you will earn only what you do in the attacks/raids. Also the game changed after level 40-45 it seemed. in early levels it is so easy to make money by attacking/raids, later on the higher you go the smarter your rivals get and all their cash is covered in large vaults. I find it almost impossible to find any profit in attacks or raids where I at now but that should change at some point. For instance, I'm level 69 and can only see rivals 66-72 in my list. It appears the higher you go the less rivals you have so the high end players are allowed to see and attack much weaker rivals. I can only see 66-72, but can be attack be people 50 level above me. However where I'm at now I'm not allowed to do. I played around will dropping my # of rivals, which gave me the same level range players, but with those below their allowed alliance for their level. That helped some, but didn't work for as I still could only see people within a few levels of my own and they all still had large vaults. But the devs have been promising some PVP and Rival list changes.

BabaYaga, See my post in this thread for more info on rival lists and ally counts (my test and my opinions):
http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?19134-Question-for-developers/page2

[Maverick50727]

...The one thing I've found is that today's strategy may not be tomorrows because the games under lying mechanics seem to be in a state of constant evolution which makes it all the more complicated to form a long term strategy.....
Yes very true. The only constant is change I always say. This game just proves it constantly. We are the Modern War Borg we must adapt...

The only good thing is constant changes adds challenge and this is why I'm playing the game and being a free player. I'm in it for the challenge. It is also why I refuse to restart at this point, it is more challenging. With the knowledge I have now vs. when I started the game I think I could restart and easily have 2-3X my A/D stats and Income by the time I reached level 30 (less than 1/2 when I'm at now). It is really hard to correct mistakes made early on by leveling too quickly and not knowing how the game functioned.

[Mcdoc]

I would say no, at least in the levels I'm playing high value valor units are very vulnerable. I have a lot of PvP loot and it does help to a point. But the game has had some slight changes which make attacking a lot less lucrative . . .

Guys - I'm not sure what is so different from my game experience to yours - but at level 52 with 50 allies - I have piled up 22 stamina and go on the prowl about every 2 hours for rivals with 17 to 25 allies. I win 99% of the time and lose a unit in about 1 in 10 battles. I usually lose one of my 110 Amphibious Troopers which at my numbers, I'm only taking about 4 out of my 110 amphibs to begin with. Sometimes I will lose a Warthog or a Chinok Chopper- which I'm fine with since I usually pick up 8 loot units in those 10 battles and usually pick up $100k to $250k - sometimes over $600k - which lets me buy more "Strong Against Air" Global Hawk Drones for $75k each (I have 72 of them from looted cash) and Harrier jets (I prefer these at $360k vs the $620k Opsrey since Harrier has more attack points) & I have picked up 18 of them with looted cash.

I vault my cash and buy units with any money over my vault before I go into battle - I am STILL amazed at the people who have in vaulted cash. Even when I lose the rare battle - I don't lose much cash. In fact, almost every time I'm way for a few hours, I come back to 6 or 8 battles where I Won them all with and usually have one where I actually won $30k in my sleep :)

I have 34 attack skill points & 16 defense skill points and over 800 in energy for missions. At my level, I wish I had 20 more points in stamina so I could attack more & more. I farm more from rivals who haven't figured out how to vault their cash yet than I thought possible - plus it's more fun than waiting around for a 24 hour payout from a $$$ building.

So I'm not sure why I'm having amazing results on attacks right now - but I have done something right. I read this forum which helped me anticipate the rush to Opsreys & Super Hornets so I switched to Russia for the Air Bonus & beefed up on any "Strong Against Air" I could buy. In fact - I just took a break to go do my 22 battles, picked up $630k & bought 2 more Harriers for a new total of 20.

Sorry you guys are having a tough time attacking - but I'm having a blast right now :)

[JMC]

You are a lower level and you have a low amount of allies. That's why you aren't losing as much as we are.

[chuck norris]

McDoc generally speaking, the people you attack and win against, how much stronger are you than they? 2, 3 5 or 10 times?

[Jasber]

May I ask...

if losing valor units is a concern, how to then spend wisely on the valor to buy valor units? What valor units should we spend on?

Or at which stage or level should we start buying valor units if valor units are vulnerable at some levels?

I've seen some rival stats with quite high stats(higher than me) and they have stored up many valor units...i guess their stats are built from these valor units

[Mcdoc]

McDoc generally speaking, the people you attack and win against, how much stronger are you than they? 2, 3 5 or 10 times?

I'm not really sure how to Study their stats unless I raid them - and quite honestly my attack strategy is simple: I now have 58 Allies and I refresh my Rivals list until I see people in the 17 to 25 rival range. So naturally I will bring more units into battle and I find that I will usually just lose the occasional looted unit (Amphibious Trooper or some loot tank or loot jet) versus when I attack someone in the mid 30's rival count is when I may lose a 66k sub or 24k Warthog.

Even moments ago while on the prowl I came across a win of 64k on the 1st attack & rode that rival for 59k, 54k, 48k, 44k, 42k until they were "Too Aweak To Battle" and I banked over 380k in using up all 22 of my attacks on various players. That was enough to add another Harrier to my arsenal in under 4 minutes. Plus since I just woke up - I had another 100k in building loot :) which isn't much compared to some off the big bldg payouts - but like I said before - my way is more fun :)

Oh - and for full disclosure, I am a Gold Player with several gold units. My favorite is the Sentry Aircraft (currently own 11) which at 40 Gold is "Strong Against Air". I have 10 more various Gold units with my most expensive one being that Heavy Ground Transport unit (800 gold) which i bought for the impressive stats and i also likes that Anti-Terrorist Operative. I couldn't resist getting one of the Chocolate Submarines (especially after the Caddy Shack post) and that stretch Hummer is looking awfully tempting although the new Anti-Air Frigate has the highest "Strong Against Air" stats I've seen so far. Any future gold units would have to have good stats against air or just be super cool looking as I am just embarrassed to admit how much I've already spent on this game - but ive been thoroughly entertained.

So perhaps my Gold units have given me the battle experience I have - but I've been very specific to also pick up tons of the 75k Strong Against Air Global Hawk Drone (75 of them) and the 110k Yellow "Strong Against Sea" Sea Scout Vessel (30 of them) and with my Valor points picking up 20 of the "Strong Against Sea" Seahawk Choppers (50 points) and 24 of the Super Hornets (350 Valor Points) - although I wish the Hornets had a "Strong Against" buff. Oh yeah, I have 10 of the "Strong Against Air" Avenger Hummer Trucks (100 Valor Points) to help against attacks from people who have built up strong Aviation forces - Although I'm not sure if those avengers rank high enough to make it into my top 228 defensive units.

I have 1498 units - most of which are loot units from battles. I wish there was a way to see what units were used to defend you in an attack. I actually posted on a rival who attacked me before if he could list them for me and I would return the favor - but I don't think he understood what I was asking.

I have some loot units that are stacking up:
163 tree snipers
25 Trafficker Gunman
8 Citadel Tanks
90 Battle Tanks
84 Satelite Trucks
81 Jungle Helicoptors
48 Border Gunships (nice one)
29 Fighter Jets
14 Shipyard Destroyers
69 Oil Battleships
54 Oil Aircraft Carriers

These all add up & some of them have pretty decent stats on their own. Plus when I do lose the occasional units here and there, it is usually one of the above listed or one of my 118 Amphibious Troopers. But as you can see, I gain more than I am losing.

Enough about me :). I just hope that sharing my experience helps someone else adjust their strategy and enjoy the game more.

[Maverick50727]

Mcdoc, You answered some of my questions here, but I sent you a private message. Glad you found a spot to hide in the game for now. Do me a favor and reply back to my PM when you get a chance. Thanks in advance.

[Mcdoc]

Man - I let my Ally count get up to 60 and suddenly started losing $360k Haariers, Bradley Tanks, and other expensive units. When I dropped my Allie count back down to 40 - my occasional losses returned back to Amphibious Troopers and other loot items.

Hopefully you guys can get similar results by lowering you allie counts and attacking people with 20 or fewer allies than you.

[JMC]

Most of us wouldnt even be able to win a battle if we lowered our ally counts enough for the casualty rate to be different.

[Mcdoc]

Why not? You mean to tell me that with 40 allies your top 160 units could fight against the the top 60 to 80 defense units if you code to attack rivals with 15 to 20 allies?

Is this perhaps because I am only level 58 and the rules are different once you get up above 80 or 100?

[Surferjames23]

Most of us wouldnt even be able to win a battle if we lowered our ally counts enough for the casualty rate to be different.
I feel the pain of attacking everytime!!! Was a solid player for the first two months, then when the "changes" occurred stop playing for awhile. Just got on and attacked. I was twice as strong as the player and "won" but in the process....
Lost a super hornet, a stealth jet, rocket soldier, and a GIGN!!!!! But I gained 5 valor points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Woah woah!!!!

Someone, anyone please help me understand.... Or is that the point.....

Btw none gold player....

[Deskjockey]

Yeah, the casualty rates are out of whack. The best--as in not as bad--that I have been able to make them is by attacking rivals who have an alliance defense score equal to about 30 to 20% of my alliance attack. Any higher, and I lose many units, including pricey units. Any lower, and I lose only a few units, but they usually include very pricey ones like super hornets or eagles. I found that out the hard way when I found a rival who had an alliance defense score less than a tenth of my attack score--I struck him once, and I lost an eagle and a super hornet despite "winning." now my losses are mostly desert leaders and amphibious troops, with the occasional high-cost units such as a global hawk or harrier thrown in make me cry. For full disclosure, I do have four gold units in my army, but I bring over 1,000 units into battle, and my informary is up to level 2 (but it was not when I fine-tuned this strategy).

[Rawdata]

Why not? You mean to tell me that with 40 allies your top 160 units could fight against the the top 60 to 80 defense units if you code to attack rivals with 15 to 20 allies?

So what you're saying is that you've saved up, bought the more expensive units, and reduced the number of allies you have. Thus, you still have high A/D scores, but you're using fewer items and allies to get to that score. Is that an accurate assessment?

[Agent Orange]

Yes very true. The only constant is change I always say. This game just proves it constantly. We are the Modern War Borg we must adapt...

The only good thing is constant changes adds challenge and this is why I'm playing the game and being a free player. I'm in it for the challenge. It is also why I refuse to restart at this point, it is more challenging. With the knowledge I have now vs. when I started the game I think I could restart and easily have 2-3X my A/D stats and Income by the time I reached level 30 (less than 1/2 when I'm at now). It is really hard to correct mistakes made early on by leveling too quickly and not knowing how the game functioned.

I would have to agree, at first I hated all the changes that took place but now I have to confess I find that a good challenge so you do need to be pretty flexible in terms of your strategy in order to do well (aka make yourself a smaller target) in the game.

Leveling up to fast without a good defense and economy is probably the biggest problem I see when players level up to our area which seems to be L70-L200. I suspect at that point they see the error or their ways as all the whales go on a feeding frenzy.

[Agent Orange]

Why not? You mean to tell me that with 40 allies your top 160 units could fight against the the top 60 to 80 defense units if you code to attack rivals with 15 to 20 allies?

Is this perhaps because I am only level 58 and the rules are different once you get up above 80 or 100?

The big problem with your strategy is that it works really well in the lower levels. My low level player is just over L20 and has been building up economy and forces. Their army is top heavy at the moment because with a limited number of units that they can take into battle they need to have the best they can afford whether that is valor or money. I only attack those who attack them and I notice a lot of lower level players don't use their vaults because they are lulled in a false sense of security thinking that nobody has thought to buy all expensive units to attack them with. I took someone down for 700,000 the other day multiple times during the day.

I also think that attack and defense skill points make a big difference. Now even in the lower levels, and in the high levels they can add as much as 10,000 in hidden attack or defense score and possibly more as I suspect there is no cap set on this one yet.

Anyhow to get back to your comment once you cross the threshold you will need your max number of allies so you can bring enough units into battle to be able to defend yourself. Otherwise... well I look forward to seeing you....

In the lower levels you are grouped by your level and number of allies. This all goes out the window just past L70 as I have players with as little as 1 ally and ones with over 500 (showing in rivals list but much higher in reality).

[Mcdoc]

So what you're saying is that you've saved up, bought the more expensive units, and reduced the number of allies you have. Thus, you still have high A/D scores, but you're using fewer items and allies to get to that score. Is that an accurate assessment?

That's pretty much it - but the main thing is I'm down to 40 Allies so im only bringing in my top 160 - so my stats are solid - and I'm only going up against people with 15 to 20 allies off my rivals list - so they're only bringing 40 to 60 units - really No Way I can lose the battle. I have to keep refreshing my rivals list to skip over the ones with rivals over 20. Then i just keep "fishing" (attacking lower rival counts) through my rivals list - winning the battle but $0 loot for 6 to 8 battles - until I come across that person who has unvaulted cash & I win anywhere from $15k to $90k on the 1st battle & stick with them for as many battles as I can before they are "too weak to battle". Using this strategy with my 25 attack stamina points - I usually bag between $250k to $700k an hour :)

I don't understand why as many times as I have laid this strategy out - people still think that more allies & bringing more units into battle is the only way to win. It's not the quantity - its the quality of units and the ratio of outnumbering the rivals you choose to attack. With these numbers - I'm not losing any units other than Amphibious Units - but recently when I let my rival count get back up to 60 - I was losing Harriers, GIGN's and other units that were painful to lose.

30 to 40 allies seems to be the sweet spot at the moment.

Just re-read Agent Orange's comment above yours - he stated that my strategy won't work one you achieve level 70 - so those guys have a totally different strategy. I'll have to adjust my plan of attack in 12 more levels then - in the meantime - I'm stocking up on more high end units with all the booty I'm collecting from unvaulted rivals :).

[JMC]

Why not? You mean to tell me that with 40 allies your top 160 units could fight against the the top 60 to 80 defense units if you code to attack rivals with 15 to 20 allies?

Is this perhaps because I am only level 58 and the rules are different once you get up above 80 or 100?

Well, i could win against the people who have like 1-20 allies, but how would that benefit me at all? None of them know how to play, they don't even have incomes or money, they don't complete any missions for me and most of them aren't even in a level range that will reward me good exp/valor for the attack. If i dropped my allies, i'd be getting hit 200 times a day instead of 1-5 times.

Most of us are in the 70-200 range now (other than the turtles on the forum). You're strategy does not apply at all with our rivals list.

[Wildfire]

30 to 40 allies seems to be the sweet spot at the moment.

Just re-read Agent Orange's comment above yours - he stated that my strategy won't work one you achieve level 70 - so those guys have a totally different strategy. I'll have to adjust my plan of attack in 12 more levels then - in the meantime - I'm stocking up on more high end units with all the booty I'm collecting from unvaulted rivals :).

No no, stick to your 30-40 allies we'll give you a warm, actually a very warm welcome if you reach level 70 like that:)

[chuck norris]

Most of us are in the 70-200 range now (other than the turtles on the forum). You're strategy does not apply at all with our rivals list.

I concur with JMC and AO. 100%. That strategy is only feasible in lower levels. So my analysis is, it is a niche. It may not even carry through across very many different levels. We don't know.

I am testing it myself in fact, at level 46, and since losses could not possibly get worse so what the hell. I dropped allies down from 230 to 150, absolutely no difference at all. Bull****. Dropped again drastically to level 50, paradise. Almost. Only a fraction of the casualties. And more un-vaulted cash for the taking. Super weak rivals still have the amazing strength or skill to kill off my valor units though. And as Doc reported, allying up to 60 he started losing big time.. In 4 days I got enough cash to be able to build 2 rigs and a nuke plant. Damn right i'm gonna take it while its there. As long as I continue to grow my defense to have enough for when I ally back up to par, I see nothing wrong with it. At 230 allies, I was nearly untouchable, so I think I'm in good shape to play this way for a few levels.

I half-expect Funzio to rush to shut this down though. "what near-zero casualties?! this can never be! We have to screw that up." Yeah, we'll see.

Thanks Doc for sharing. I haven't experienced this type of PVP in weeks.... But, a word of advice. Respect the veterans of the game. The game is only a few months old, and guys like AO and JMC, have seen just about everything.

Cheers everbody.

[Wildfire]

Super weak rivals still have the amazing strength or skill to kill off my valor units though.

I've found this too, the optimum weak allies to attack seem to be somewhere between a quarter to a sixth of your strength, in this region I lose snipers, flamethrower soldiers, Bradleys, Warthogs and submarines mostly 1-3 a hit which on valor missions is ok for me. If I attack anybody weaker I start to lose, Cruisers, Ospreys, Mine Launchers, Hornets and Stealth Frigates. Similarily I lose these more valuable units against stronger rivals. I lost an Osprey and a Mine Launcher against someone will only 1110 defense against 12000 attack, it's as if the real weak players throw everything against your best units and ignore the rest! It's happened me so consistently I think it is built in to the game to protect the weak at the minute, so if they appear too weak I leave them alone.

[Mcdoc]

I concur with JMC and AO. 100%. That strategy is only feasible in lower levels. So my analysis is, it is a niche. It may not even carry through across very many different levels. We don't know.



Thanks Doc for sharing. I haven't experienced this type of PVP in weeks.... But, a word of advice. Respect the veterans of the game. The game is only a few months old, and guys like AO and JMC, have seen just about everything.

Chuck - I'm glad you're able to experience the results I was sharing. It is very clear that this "sweet spot" is only effective at levels below 70 - so I see why guys like AO & JMC were not keen on my strategy. Also, I thought I was being respectful to everyone by sharing my game experience - so if somewhere my attempt to help others offended someone or somehow was perceived as disrespectful - then I apologize for the misinterpretation.

At least now I know that at level 68 it will be time to Allie up to over 200 :)

Oh yeah: Chuck Norris does not Tea Bag the ladies - - - - He Potato Sacks Them - LoL

[Agent Orange]

No no, stick to your 30-40 allies we'll give you a warm, actually a very warm welcome if you reach level 70 like that:)

Excellent suggestion Wildfire!

[Agent Orange]

Chuck - I'm glad you're able to experience the results I was sharing. It is very clear that this "sweet spot" is only effective at levels below 70 - so I see why guys like AO & JMC were not keen on my strategy. Also, I thought I was being respectful to everyone by sharing my game experience - so if somewhere my attempt to help others offended someone or somehow was perceived as disrespectful - then I apologize for the misinterpretation.

At least now I know that at level 68 it will be time to Allie up to over 200 :)

Oh yeah: Chuck Norris does not Tea Bag the ladies - - - - He Potato Sacks Them - LoL

It's not thatwe aren't 'keen' on your strategy, it's just that those who follow it into L70 and beyond are going to become our best buddies which has it's bad and good points....