Economy planning & discussion [Archive]

Nudie

12-23-2011, 11:44 PM

Very detailed and comprehensive analysis. Thank you for sharing this valuable information. It is very useful to me as I try to build my economy. So far I think I have not really been doing a very good job - mainly due to my lack of knowledge. My economy remains weak and I barely make 16K/hour. Should I focus on upgrading my bigger buildins (movie theatre, dominican, beach motel) first or should I focus on upgrading my smaller more frequent payout buildings (ice cream, laundramat, italian restaurants) first? Or should I buy lofts and crematoriams before upgrading anything? I realize I need to do all of the above but what would be the best order to do so? Thank you for reading and your advice.

Syn

12-23-2011, 11:45 PM

I still can't understand what are the buildings and build time that can make 120% difference in two weeks.

Simple really, 3-hour buildings. I never have downtime when something is not upgrading. 70% of the time it's a 3 hour building because that's my play style.

Tramp Stamp

12-24-2011, 12:02 AM

I still can't understand what are the buildings and build time that can make 120% difference in two weeks.

One week.

Should I focus on upgrading my bigger buildins (movie theatre, dominican, beach motel) first or should I focus on upgrading my smaller more frequent payout buildings (ice cream, laundramat, italian restaurants) first? Or should I buy lofts and crematoriams before upgrading anything? I realize I need to do all of the above but what would be the best order to do so? Thank you for reading and your advice.

I wouldn't materially change the strategy. You're past the opener part so you can skip Step 1 so I would start with Step 2, upgrading Laundromats. You'll accumulate a lot of money waiting for the Laundromats to complete. Use that to build the highest output buildings first. When it comes time to upgrade something else, pick the most expensive item doable from the list then keep building new high output buildings when more funds become available.

Nudie

12-24-2011, 01:44 AM

Thanks Tramp, I'll work on my laundromats first.

G Wiz

12-24-2011, 02:23 AM

This is a good analysis tramp stamp!

xclusiv

12-24-2011, 03:14 AM

stixx

12-24-2011, 04:13 AM

in your opnion what would say is better,

you have 2 buildings you want to upgrade them both, do you upgrade 1 to level 2 then level 3 .... level 10 etc.. and then start on the 2nd, or is it better to, upgrade 1 to level 2 then the second to level 2 then the first to level 3 then the 2nd to level 3 and so on and so on?? which is better and why?

The best thing to do is to upgrade them together, cause buildings dont genrate money while they upgrade.
Image you have 2 buildings each generate 10k, if you upgrade just one building, the other keeps genarating 10 k. While the building thats being upgraded doesnt make any cash, instead itll only costs you.
So always make sure your buildings are equally being upgrade.

Euchred

12-24-2011, 05:32 AM

stixx

12-24-2011, 06:51 AM

Im almost in same postition as you are. And im going for churches and zeus. More lvled buildings = more money.

Euchred

12-24-2011, 07:07 AM

Im almost in same postition as you are. And im going for churches and zeus. More lvled buildings = more money.

I'm inclined to agree with this, the upgrade times for those aren't that long either. I also want to save up for upscale clubs and condos. i may not have enough income to do all of this. Time will tell.

Duke.0

12-24-2011, 07:23 AM

Lola Gets

12-24-2011, 08:11 AM

Tramp Stamp, Thank you for your genius! A lot of us out here would be nowhere without you! I was lucky enough to read some of your threads 6 weeks ago when I started. I am now at Level 31 with $26,614/h. I strictly follow the "Always Be Upgrading" hood management strategy. Right now (because I can afford them and the necessary hood expansions to fit them), I have purchased every non gold building available at my level. I also have two Movie Threaters and two Lofts. They all fit nicely, and I won't have a problem raising 1M for my next hood expansion. Anyway, just want to say thanks for all the help!

BigCheese

12-24-2011, 08:43 AM

i would said awesome post. now this is a brainer post.

Tramp Stamp

12-24-2011, 09:25 AM

you have 2 buildings you want to upgrade them both, do you upgrade 1 to level 2 then level 3 .... level 10 etc.. and then start on the 2nd, or is it better to, upgrade 1 to level 2 then the second to level 2 then the first to level 3 then the 2nd to level 3 and so on and so on?? which is better and why?

Upgrading in parallel will net in lower ROI. Upgrading in series leads to faster growth. In my opinion if ROI is important then a cheaper upgrade should be selected, so I am inclined to upgrade in series.

Tramp Stamp

12-24-2011, 09:32 AM

I just have a question about later on. My situation is I just bought 2 rock cafes and now I can afford to continually upgrade my MTs and lofts. so I put my lofts to level 4 and now my MTs are going to level 7, then i plan to put my lofts to level 5 for 6 million each which is not an issue. However after that i could afford to keep going but ROI tells me that zues theatres and churches come next which compared to the 6 million $ upgrades they aren't near as expensive.

Bottom line do I follow ROI at this point or continually upgrade my big ticket type a buildings until they become unaffordable?

Im almost in same postition as you are. And im going for churches and zeus. More lvled buildings = more money.

Thus far my analysis is strongest at the earlier stages, but when it comes to high level buildings, especially the gold ones, if there is a growth penalty compared to the "Big 3" Type As then it's very slight. Basically do what you feel like here. I might change my opinion on this later on, though. I will recommend limiting your choices as upgrading a bunch of high level Type Bs in parallel is not the fastest way to growth.

Tramp Stamp

12-24-2011, 09:44 AM

Ok so what if your already "mid level" like me ..level 88.

Do i build and level up laundromats to level 10 right now? I don't have any currently.
I do have all 12/24/48 hour buildings up to Lofts built (ie: i don't have crematoriums) I find i really don't have robberies and i collect 100% of the pickups.

Here is what i currently have:

Tattoo - 5 & 6
Pawn - 6 & 7
Gun shop - 5 & 5
House - 6 & 6
Bagel - 3 & 4
Warehouse - 7 & 4
Museum - 3 & 3
Electronics - 4 & 4
Dominican - 2 & 2
Fish Store - 4 & 4
Internet - 1 & 1
Beachside Inn - 1 & 1
Movie Theater - 4 & 3
Loft - 1 & 1
Basketball Court - 10 & 9
Meat Factory - 3 & 4
Brownstone 1 & 1

$17,085 / hour shown

Should i break away from my build time strategy and make Italian Rest and Souvenir Shops?

According to your list i should:
1. build 2 x level 10 laundromats
2. level the tattoo and or house
3. save for movie theater upgrades and upgrade when i can
4. save for loft upgrades and upgrade when possible

Yes or no?

I haven't calculated a cut-off point for Laundromats; it depends so much on playing style and relative position. Off-hand I'd say by level 68 Laundromats are probably not worth it anymore unless you're severely cash strapped to the point where you cannot build all available buildings in a timely fashion. Income-wise, by $50k/hr, 2 level 10 Laundromats' pure theoretical outcome will constitute less than 10%.

In your case I'd say $17k at level 88 is critically low and an adjustment needs to be made. I'll leave the decision to build and upgrade Laundromats up to you, but the rest of your plan is what I would do if I were interested in only long payouts. Some are going to say that at your stage throwing money at the House and Tattoo Parlor is downright silly, but you really need to get access to growth upgrades, and those buildings are a way of keeping the upgrade resource "meaningfully busy".

Tramp Stamp

12-24-2011, 10:02 AM

The best thing to do is to upgrade them together, cause buildings dont genrate money while they upgrade. Image you have 2 buildings each generate 10k, if you upgrade just one building, the other keeps genarating 10 k. While the building thats being upgraded doesnt make any cash, instead itll only costs you.

This is an important point that should be expounded upon. Upgrading the high ticket buildings punches your economy in the gut in a direct exchange of available funds for future growth. Starting with an ROI base hedges this effect as a base built in parallel limits loss. The end effect of the Type A ROI base is a platform that generates approximately $10k/hr with frequent payouts, which provides more than enough breathing room assuming the player starts with the strategy. Over time regular operating income will increase, but in the short term the player is expected to survive off his "shanty town".

Duke.0

12-24-2011, 10:36 AM

I know my income is low and i have not been really focusing on increasing my income per hour at all.

what i have been doing is focusing on strengthening my mafia and defense a lot more so then boosting economy.
The way i think about it is, the money i make should be used for items and defense, more so then constantly upgrading money buildings. Seems foolish to think that all your money you make is just being pumped right back into money buildings and not taking into account for defense or items. That is the point of money buildings after all isn't it? To boost your defense / attack and help improve your mafia. To me, it seems like insanity to keep taking all your money you make and just pumping it back into the money buildings without first boosting defense and items for your mafia.

However, i understand that if i spend more money, i will make more money which is why this is interesting to me. Additionally, i find that the laundromats add about 9,000 income per hour, however nobody collects that much. It would be reasonable to think that they collect less then 15% of that total. Even with the 3 hour buildings and 6 hour buildings, chances are people do not collect their full amount. Which is one of the reasons i choose the 12/24/48 hour buildings. While it looks like my 17000/hour is low, its not too bad to me, as i can collect upwards of 300-500k a day if i do not spend anything.

I agree i should upgrade my movie theaters and lofts ASAP. I have been more concerned with boosting my defense as of late since i'm getting close to the "big boys", i feel i need to protect my money buildings and thus are making lots of defenses. I have upwards of 30-35 Gatling guns level 1 or 2 (spent about 2,500,000 on Gatling Guns) and also many Muay Thai buildings and upgrading those. So its not as though i'm strapped for cash coming in. In a few days i could have 800,000-1,000,000 saved up if i don't spend anything upgrading defense or items.

If i stop spending for a few days while i upgrade the tattoo shops or the houses, i probably can collect enough to upgrade the movie theaters a few more times which would put me in a good position to level the Lofts too.

while this information in this thread is amazing and really valuable, i would also like to add my 2 cents to say that one should not totally focus on only taking their income and putting it right back into money buildings, this may lead to a neglect to defense to protect your investment. Instead, have a balance where you take your income and divide it up and spend some on defense, some on money building upgrades and occasionally spend some on items too. After all, thats the point of money buildings, to boost your mafia. It makes little sense to me to keep upgrading your money buildings to make more money and not spending anything on defense or items. Spinning your wheels in a tail spin of uselessness is all you would be doing. Sure, you can boost your economy, i'm not saying you shouldn't, But there should be a time when your money coming in is used in different ways, and not always for upgrading money buildings over and over and over again.

Thanks for the reply btw :)
i'll be following your advice and leveling the house / tattoo and saving for movie theater's and loft upgrades ! You rock Tramp Stamp

Syn

12-24-2011, 10:48 AM

while this information in this thread is amazing and really valuable, i would also like to add my 2 cents to say that one should not totally focus on only taking their income and putting it right back into money buildings, this may lead to a neglect to defense to protect your investment. Instead, have a balance where you take your income and divide it up and spend some on defense, some on money building upgrades and occasionally spend some on items too. After all, thats the point of money buildings, to boost your mafia. It makes little sense to me to keep upgrading your money buildings to make more money and not spending anything on defense or items. Spinning your wheels in a tail spin of uselessness is all you would be doing. Sure, you can boost your economy, i'm not saying you shouldn't, But there should be a time when your money coming in is used in different ways, and not always for upgrading money buildings over and over and over again.

Just wanted to comment on this. I take a different approach, just wanted to share. I touched on it earlier, but wanted to drive the point home. The only money I spend on defense is explosives. (This is pre-update, so lower prices, I might change this later :P)

All of my energy goes into farming defensive items such as the NATO Gas Mask (4/18) and State Jackets (3/10). That way I am saving my money and respect for upgrading and attack items. Been doing this for about a week now, and it's working out great! Wish I'd of done it sooner!

Thought I'd share, Merry Christmas everyone!

Duke.0

12-24-2011, 11:06 AM

Yea syn, good point about state jackets and nato gas masks, those are excellent!

I find the state jacket to have a good drop rate in the graveyard (although i don't really farm for it anyplace else..) :)

Tramp Stamp

12-24-2011, 11:16 AM

It's funny you bring up the point of spending money, Duke, as the primary criticism levied toward me thus far is overrating ROI, which keeps maximum cash on hand. In any case, this strategy will, over time, generate the most cash to be used toward whatever you want. Upgrading takes time, during which cash accumulates, and, as long as there is some sort of upgrade going on, do whatever you want with the remainder. When it comes time to upgrade again, simply go down the list and pick the most expensive upgrade affordable. The build strategy is not intended to be rigid and all-encompassing. It's a guide to help players choose the most beneficial upgrade path regardless of position. If House upgrades are all you can afford at the moment, then go for it.

Tramp Stamp

12-24-2011, 11:17 AM

Syn should make a loot guide.

dudeman

12-24-2011, 11:42 AM

Syn should make a loot guide.
Syn should make a loot guide.

Cheers

12-24-2011, 11:44 AM

Syn should make a loot guide.
Yes I agree, Syn should make a loot guide for both offensive and defensive loots. Thanks in advanced and Merry Christmas! hehe! :D

Syn

12-24-2011, 11:51 AM

You know, I have been dabbling with Microsoft Publisher. I have put together a template, just need to put the data in.

I wanted to make a go-to for all guide. Economy, PVP, PVE, loot, missions, achievements, respect, etc. The works! I have asked a few people if I can use their data in it, but not everyone. Of course, anyone who contributes will get credit.

Do you think I should put the effort into it? If yes, I can get started right after the holidays. It would take a few weeks, but I think it would be more than worth it. I will put it into multiple formats as well so everyone can benefit for it.

Sorry this is off topic Tramp Stamp, didn't feel this needed a brand new thread. Let me know!

Tramp Stamp

12-24-2011, 12:04 PM

Syn

12-24-2011, 12:10 PM

The problem with an all-inclusive guide is that no one is "best" at all aspects of the game. With widely varying opinions/options on every aspect of the game I am skeptical that a single author could be objective enough to analyze all valid viewpoints. New knowledge is rapidly generated, so parts of your guide are likely to become rapidly obsolete.

Personally, I recommend first tackling game aspects with the largest knowledge holes then worry about piecing it all together when it's all "done". In the interim, spreading knowledge may be best served by creating a frequently bumped thread that maintains a "best of" link farm.

I honestly thought of that, the different play styles. I was going to make this guide similar to one you would buy in a store, like a Prima, Piggyback, or BradyGames. I would lay out the different ways and viewpoints to go about playing the game. The reader would then decide the best choice.

But I do concede that this is a monumental task for one person. Maybe I would just write what I have done so far, because I have played it two different ways now. The fast track with my main character and the camper route with my sleeper account.

The suggestion of a thread of best of guides is a great idea, in fact I think I will do that right now unless someone else has beat me to it :p

Tramp Stamp

12-24-2011, 02:06 PM

Updated spreadsheet with more building sizes. Some data is missing and some of it is likely inaccurate, so corrections are appreciated. I put something in every field so hopefully it won't mess up when sorting anymore.

Syn

12-24-2011, 02:08 PM

Updated spreadsheet with more building sizes. Some data is missing and some of it is likely inaccurate, so corrections appreciated. I put something in every field so hopefully it won't mess up when sorting anymore.

Here is the link (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgEHrvnoijXudHFVU2RxYUQzYXYtOURRd0d3M1hVR 2c&hl=en_US&pli=1#gid=1) for those looking for it :D

Anubis

12-25-2011, 01:00 AM

Sexy Thread Tramp. I like the Movie Theatre and Loft semi guide. I only put in one loft and at the time saved the cash to upgrade straight to level 2 while it was building for obvious reasons. I think I might add a Movie Theatre in as it wont cost much to build and upgrade as i'm saving for an Upscale Club atm but keep getting slowed down a little due to other upgrades.

One building I liked recently is the Barbershop. Leveling it up is cheap, and level 7 nets you pretty much the same income as a level one Flower shop and they cost a whopping 500K.

The Dominican resturant is a must for everyone imo. Fairly cheap to upgrade (look good), fairly fast to make and upgrade and a level 4 nets you a similar income to a level 1 Church. Going from level 3 to 4 for Type B buildings is a good boost right? (compared to the initial 2 upgrades).

Advice I can offer for ppl saving for more expensive buildings (upscale lubs, Condo's, Hotels, Night Clubs etc) is to upgrade the initial type A buildings (if you can bear them) Getting a Level 10 Ice Cream shop takes a long time but costs very very little. I don't mind squeezing in the low foot print Type A's, the Gas stations and Souverneir stores just dont work for me. Aesthetics does come into it to for some ppl like you mentioned Tramp.

Duke.0

12-25-2011, 09:35 AM

If i was to buy something with 240 gold from the sale, what should i get?

Here is my current idea:
1 x church 200
2 x smoke shops 30
1 x ice cream shop 8

4 buildings for 238 gold

What ya think? (FYI i'm level 88)

EDIT: Oops! In the excitement of christams and my new itunes gift card i made a mistake....i posted this in this thread instead of a new thread.....sorry!

Tramp Stamp

12-25-2011, 09:03 PM

Time period is 6 days this time as I'd like to get this back to Sunday nights. For the third week in a row Syntarias takes the crown by a hefty margin. For the third week in a row I rank fifth.

EDIT: It's interesting how Laundromats have scaled with my income. They have consistently comprised ~40% of my rated income. However, as I am out of upgrades to take, this figure will now sink precipitously. This is the first week where they have contributed less than 40% (39.49%).

Syntarias: $71,894, +71.74%
xclusiv: $118,129, +44.10%
joeycool: $80,273, +39.76%
ShotInTheDark: $85,861, +39.52%
Tramp Stamp: $21,728, +35.07%
stixx: $105,853, +29.02%
rocko: $60,643, +20.22% (five days)
Syn: $14,062, +18.70%
TLoord: $36,211, +14.20%
Jiggles: $36,889, +13.56%
Kaen: $23,519, +13.07%
AppleMacGuy: $183,022, +10.75%
Mickey: $73,146, +6.74%
Barbie Girl: $32,736, +5.83%
Amber: $96,395, +5.60%
duder: $49,701, +4.92%
Dorian: $56,049, +4.57%
qwikster: $58,479, +4.52%
popeye: $51,034, +2.16%

Duke.0

12-25-2011, 09:27 PM

@Tramp Stamp
I'm taking your awesome advice and so far so good.
I am leveling my Tattoo shop again, and i just saved up 700k in 18 hours or so and am going to level up a movie theater again.

Just built a Church too and now i'm up to almost 20,000 / hour.
Thanks Tramp!

xclusiv

12-26-2011, 12:16 AM

congrats to syn, hey syn could you add me i would like to give your a hood a visit.

whocareswhatmynameis

12-26-2011, 07:53 AM

thanks tramp stamp for continually updating our income stats.

i've 2 LM at lvl 6. i could potentially boost my income significantly by upgrading both, but won't since LMs just inflate income without significant practical benefit (unrealistic from my game style to collect more than 5% of the time). i bet the significant boost in some players is related with christmas gold spending. i haven't spent any money on gold in the past week, and so my slow growth. another factor that has hampered my growth is the fact that i am diverting a portion of my income to defense buildings. i am constructing gatling guns (54K a piece, i have ~15 so far). it would be useful if Syn and players at the top of the list give their perspectives.

duder

12-26-2011, 09:20 AM

I'm sure it's not surprising (and I swear this isn't just a reiteration of my thread), but I have a couple of thoughts on the economics conversation.

1) For the purpose of conversation, I was wondering if folks would be amenable to inverting the ROI equation to increase / cost (rather than cost / increase which tells you how long until you break even). I think long term it's easier to talk about economic choices in terms of dollars gained for dollars invested.

2) I know the forum is basically polarized on the LM question - I still think it comes down to how often you poke your hood. I'm not saying LMs aren't useful, I'm just not certain that the $10k cost, 60 hour upgrade duration, $100/collection level 9 => 10 LM upgrade is going to increase folks actual collections better than upgrading two pizza parlors to level 6 & two gas stations to level 3. I think that balance & trade off is different for every player based on how often you check your economy. It's just that 60 hours is a very long time to wait for an upgrade early on in your economic development. That being said, I do think level 5 LMs early on (in your first week) works out pretty well, and I would probably buy into getting to level 6 LM early on is a good value.

3) I know I've expressed this before, but I maintain that $/hr is not terribly useful to pursue. I think what you really want to look at is ($/hr) / upgrade duration. This is a return on upgrade time equation (how many dollars increase do you get per amount of time invested). I think the reason the MT and the Loft are so good is because their ROT (that's right... ROT) is so strong. Here is the list of upgrades for non-gold buildings which are available before level 40 with a better return on time than a level 1=>2 loft upgrade with perfect collections:

Deli to level 2
Gas station to level 2, 3
Italian Restaurant to level 2
Laudromat to level 2, 3, 4
All Loft upgrades
MT to level 2, 3, 4, 5
All Nightclub upgrades
Pawn Shop to level 2, 3
Pizza Parlor to level 2, 3
Souvenir Store to level 2
Wholesale Warehouse from level 2 to level 3

Every other upgrade takes longer with respect to increase $/hr before level 40.

P.S. boo on last week, I just started a level 5 loft upgrade that won't finish until Thursday! I spent the past week saving the ~6m to start it.

Syn

12-26-2011, 09:34 AM

For the third week in a row Syntarias takes the crown by a hefty margin.

Syntarias: $71,894, +71.74%
Syn: $14,062, +18.70%

Now I was expecting to be near the top this time, due to the Rock Cafe's. But the leader again? I'm happy to see that :D Need to pay more attention to my camper account though :p

congrats to syn, hey syn could you add me i would like to give your a hood a visit.

We already are neighbors! Take a look :D

it would be useful if Syn and players at the top of the list give their perspectives.

Now, I won't lie, gold buildings helped tremendously this last week. The Rock Cafe's gave me a whopping 20k boost in income per hour.

But I would like to add that something is always being upgraded in my hood. Whether it be a big ticket building or a lowly +$55 an hour building. I try my hardest to keep everything equal in level. It really does add up in the end.

The real credit goes to everyone that participates in these discussions. I would be lost without all the helpful advice I get daily from everyone!

Joe Brown1

12-26-2011, 09:48 AM

Great guide! I have pursued a strategy with some of both TrampStamp's and Syn's suggestions. I have pumped all of my free cash into my economy for the most part (except what was needed for goals) and also aggressively pursued farming a PVP for A/D. I am currently at an attack ratio of 39:1 and am expanding my mafia as quickly as possible but farming/PVP is keeping my ratio high. Oddly, my Econ planning has hit a snag as all of bldg upgrade times are now at 24hrs + for the most part and new buildings still require a bit of saving so my Econ expansion has slightly slowed.

Aka Joe Brown (my facebook login has quit working and Funzio hasn't fixed it so I had to create a new login)
CC Kaen 909 898 510 lvl63; 148 mafia; A5656/D7298; $21,884/HR

Tramp Stamp

12-26-2011, 09:59 AM

For the purpose of conversation, I was wondering if folks would be amenable to inverting the ROI equation to increase / cost (rather than cost / increase which tells you how long until you break even). I think long term it's easier to talk about economic choices in terms of dollars gained for dollars invested.

You're looking for a single number that says everything but I don't think you'll find it. The problem is you're trying to combine fixed, short term cost with, practically, infinite gain over time. The only way out is to set some time parameters, but the master sheets are not the place for this.

I'm just not certain that the $10k cost, 60 hour upgrade duration, $100/collection level 9 => 10 LM upgrade is going to increase folks actual collections better than upgrading two pizza parlors to level 6 & two gas stations to level 3. I think that balance & trade off is different for every player based on how often you check your economy. It's just that 60 hours is a very long time to wait for an upgrade early on in your economic development. That being said, I do think level 5 LMs early on (in your first week) works out pretty well, and I would probably buy into getting to level 6 LM early on is a good value.

Upgrading the Laundromats to level 10 is the roughest part of the process, but they're intended to meaningfully boost economy over 2-4 weeks. Over that time they should be far more productive than upgrades to Gas Stations and Pizza Parlors. By the way, with the outlined plan, those building levels should be at least what you say. It will still take days to max out to the Italian Restaurant.

I know I've expressed this before, but I maintain that $/hr is not terribly useful to pursue. I think what you really want to look at is ($/hr) / upgrade duration.

What's being pursued is not $/hr but a combination of $/hr and ROI. ROI is a stronger figure than build time because it factors lost income and sticker price. Keep in mind that unlike virtually anyone else, you have no Type B buildings to consider, so you're really arguing over Type A vs. Type A, though I basically am, too, at this point. There are a slew of Type B buildings that have short upgrade times and high sticker prices but would look otherwise appealing if you just looked at $/hr gain divided by upgrade time. In the context of Type A vs Type A your approach will work.

Duke.0

12-26-2011, 11:12 AM

Now I was expecting to be near the top this time, due to the Rock Cafe's. But the leader again? I'm happy to see that :D Need to pay more attention to my camper account though :p

Oh i know what you mean about gold buildings.
I added a Church and 2 x Smoke Shops last night and it increased my income 3,000 dollars / hour. (from 17,000 to 20,000)

Also do people realize that a level 10 basketball court, while it takes up 10 x 10, has as slightly more income in 12 hours then a level 1 loft? At tycoon, my level 10 basketball courts give me $12,376 in 12 hours. I know its size is huge, but its only slightly bigger then the loft (8x8) and its really cheap to upgrade. It fits really well in the left side 10 x 10 areas of the hood.

Max Power

12-26-2011, 02:07 PM

Oh i know what you mean about gold buildings.
I added a Church and 2 x Smoke Shops last night and it increased my income 3,000 dollars / hour. (from 17,000 to 20,000)

Also do people realize that a level 10 basketball court, while it takes up 10 x 10, has as slightly more income in 12 hours then a level 1 loft? At tycoon, my level 10 basketball courts give me $12,376 in 12 hours. I know its size is huge, but its only slightly bigger then the loft (8x8) and its really cheap to upgrade. It fits really well in the left side 10 x 10 areas of the hood.

That's great, but the idea with Lofts is to not leave them at level 1. Level 3 lofts collect $72,600 in Tycoon.

Duke.0

12-26-2011, 06:16 PM

Wow that's very good for level 3 lofts! I'll work on leveling mine more soon!

Joeycool

12-26-2011, 06:38 PM

Still a great thread. Thanks for keeping track for us all Tramp.

Great work on your hood Syn. You are the main man for economy growth!!

I am going to have a poor week next week I think. My next hood upgrade is $5M. And I'm also chasing the upgrade the sports bar to level 10 goal. Which is a stupid, expensive goal that offers no real rewards as far as I know. The upgrade times are astronomical for little reward as far as I can tell!

Rarelibra

12-27-2011, 06:12 AM

Syn

12-27-2011, 11:09 AM

Great work on your hood Syn. You are the main man for economy growth!!

Hahaha, every week I think that I'm going to be thrown off this make-shift throne of mine. This Christmas sale should see to that :p

What can I say, if there is blood on the streets, buy property. :D

Tramp Stamp

12-27-2011, 03:51 PM

Updated posts. Changelog:

Mentioned that Payout algorithm link explained money building types
Added information on "gold equivalent" buildings
Placed Ice Cream Shop above Italian Restaurant on list
Provided alternatives to Laundromat push

Regarding the status upgrade to the Ice Cream Shop, while the Italian Restaurant wins out in the end, for most of the path, Ice Cream Shop is a better value. Per level, Ice Cream Shop provides 67.8% of the income but only about 40% of the ROI on average. A large factor of this are the low sticker prices for upgrades, which are a mere 11% by comparison. Ice Cream Shop is so strong that a player may wish to consider rapidly upgrading them to level 10 (or wherever) instead of or in addition to the Laundromats. In fact, I may just do this as I need several land expansions since it's road in both directions now. Triggering a $500k expansion left me so broke that the best available upgrade was bringing a Gas Station to level 6.

Of course this won't help my chart position. Something comes up every time I think I'm about to break out.

Dorian Gray

12-28-2011, 09:48 AM

Triggering a $500k expansion left me so broke that the best available upgrade was bringing a Gas Station to level 6.
Of course this won't help my chart position. Something comes up every time I think I'm about to break out.

lol I went with a lvl 8 house upgrade, cheap and takes a long time. I just finished the $1.5 and $2.4 mil expansions back to back. I've got some Xmas gold burning a hole in my pocket.
I'm thinking about just going ahead and doing the $3.6 mil expansion right away. Maybe not the best move economically, but I just want some room to mess around with hood layout more than anything.

Amber_

12-31-2011, 06:13 AM

So Tramp Stamp, when do we get the new weekly list? :)

Joeycool

12-31-2011, 06:22 AM

So Tramp Stamp, when do we get the new weekly list? :)

suspect you've had a good week then Amber?? :)

Syn

12-31-2011, 09:05 AM

suspect you've had a good week then Amber?? :)

He has been doing it on Sundays. I'm grinding through so much exp trying to get to level 113...for unknown reasons :p... Hope I make it in time!

Tramp Stamp

12-31-2011, 10:08 AM

Amber's had a slammin' week, but she's not in first. Sunday night is correct.

Joeycool

12-31-2011, 10:18 AM

Amber's had a slammin' week, but she's not in first. Sunday night is correct.

let me guess...drum roll.... SYN? ha ha.

Syn

12-31-2011, 10:20 AM

let me guess...drum roll.... SYN? ha ha.

I really really doubt it. I think I only gained 17k a hour this last week so far. That's why i'm itching to get to 113 :D

Joeycool

12-31-2011, 10:25 AM

I really really doubt it. I think I only gained 17k a hour this last week so far. That's why i'm itching to get to 113 :D

Someone wants a gentlemans club! :)

I could have had a storming week this week but I have been concentrating on the sportsbar challenge. It gives little results £/Hour and takes ages! Oh well.

I do like the challenges though. Current one is buy 5 hummers. Cost £14M. Gulp!

Syn

12-31-2011, 10:27 AM

Someone wants a gentlemans club! :)

I wish I could get it now, but no the Pirate Tavern is at level 113 :D

Joeycool

12-31-2011, 10:38 AM

Ahh thats right. Its a bit of a pain though with its 8hr collection time.

BBz

12-31-2011, 11:48 AM

Hey SYN and all of the big earners I would really like to view your hoods too see what buildings and how they are set up. Would all the big earners kindly add me please.

112 782 321

Thank you I'll look forward to doing some snooping ;)

Rarelibra

12-31-2011, 12:03 PM

Amber's had a slammin' week, but she's not in first. Sunday night is correct.

I know after I made 113, I added two pirates and two upscales, and started on a condo building... shot me up from $60k to $107k hourly... maybe I'm in the running for first...

Anubis

12-31-2011, 12:48 PM

Deuces my firend! lets have sex!!!!! (just joking, im pissed but still, I guess we could lmao!)

Anubis

12-31-2011, 12:57 PM

mmmm New year is be best. currently eating a pork pie loaf with egg slices in the middle. If vI post silly stuff after midnight I appogise in advance"!

Rarelibra

12-31-2011, 01:04 PM

Happy Holidays, everyone... (wink, wink, Anubis)

Babytway

12-31-2011, 01:11 PM

thats good info right there

Anubis

12-31-2011, 01:13 PM

PM about the colour of grass

deuces

12-31-2011, 01:15 PM

something about grass colors.

Anubis

12-31-2011, 01:20 PM

PM abou the colour of grass

Anubis

12-31-2011, 01:21 PM

PM abou the colour of grass

Tramp Stamp

12-31-2011, 01:29 PM

The spreadsheet includes cash-equivalent figures for level 1 gold buildings. Simply half that number for the sale price. For example, the cash-equivalent figure for the Chapel is $1,800,000, so you should get $900,000 by selling it. At 75 gold, the return would be $12,000 per, though I think by the point the Chapel is available the "add funds" cash option should be at least 3x the efficiency. The only way I see this working is if the player is severely cash starved and has access to high level gold buildings.

deuces

12-31-2011, 01:34 PM

meh happy holidays.

Anubis

12-31-2011, 01:36 PM

PM abou the colour of grass

Anubis

12-31-2011, 01:38 PM

PM abou the colour of grass

deuces

12-31-2011, 01:38 PM

anubis'd...

Anubis

12-31-2011, 01:41 PM

If i really wanted to, i could turn 4m worth of wedding chappels into an upscale club...but that would essentially mean that i was paying 337.5 gold for an upscale club at level 87...not worth it to me. Maybe it becomes worth it to do this at higher levels, not sure. I guess it comes down to how developed your economy is compared to your level.

As a tempory msg, the level 113? pirate tavern for 110gold sells for 7M.

Anubis

12-31-2011, 02:11 PM

If you take the case of Pirate you can sell 6 Pirates (660 gold) for 42mils and build a Night Club. Now that is a big difference!

should be the reason we keep the info safe for now - just let forum members know via PM's. If not CCMark will gimp it.

Rarelibra

12-31-2011, 02:17 PM

don't forget the eggnog

Max Power

12-31-2011, 02:21 PM

wouldn't they know this by now? I mean, after all - they set the rate of the buildings.

The rate for the Vault of Cash is variable because it is like the stock market - based on sales (or at least, I would assume so) whereas the value of gold is fixed based on in-game costs.

?

LOL at people trying to hush it as if Funzio didn't set those numbers in the first place.

I am still scared to do it.

Troy125

12-31-2011, 02:26 PM

The rate for the Vault of Cash is variable because it is like the stock market - based on sales (or at least, I would assume so)

?

The value of cash in "add funds" is based on your lvl - it increases every time u lvl up

Rarelibra

12-31-2011, 02:32 PM

The value of cash in "add funds" is based on your lvl - it increases every time u lvl up

Ah, ok - this makes sense.

Still no bargain compared to the build and swap.

Anubis

12-31-2011, 03:21 PM

26th of december is my mothers bday

Anubis

12-31-2011, 03:31 PM

25th of Christmas is the birthday of jesus

whocareswhatmynameis

12-31-2011, 03:37 PM

Just saying, best for all levels of players if this info was kept quiet for as long as possible. I've already made 35M for 550gold from this.

posting this information on the forum will no doubt make "keeping quiet" impossible ;)

Anubis

12-31-2011, 03:47 PM

OK, I have really just abused this now. Deletin posts. PM guys

Anubis

12-31-2011, 04:39 PM

Give respect to the lower levels who have provided great info on making a massive $$$ income!

Duke.0

12-31-2011, 05:11 PM

@Anubis:

Never Mind i'll just pm you...

nvm nvm i can't because your box is full. Check out post #70....

Anubis

12-31-2011, 10:48 PM

Anyones free to email - I deleted my msgs duke

deuces

12-31-2011, 10:50 PM

check post 70 anubis

Amber_

01-01-2012, 08:20 AM

suspect you've had a good week then Amber?? :)

Haha no not really. The pirate taverns were good for my econ but I'm saving up for the next expansion (7mil), so I doubt I'm going to be somewhere in the top.
This list-thing is fun though, interesting to see the developments :)

Joeycool

01-01-2012, 08:32 AM

Yep... my next is 7m too. Now do you go with that expansion. Or do you just sell low pay out buildings and upgrade stuff?

7 mil gets you a lot of upgrades!!

I'm not sure what way I'm going yet.

Anubis

01-01-2012, 08:43 AM

I have a seriously bad head.

@Yay upgrades!

Umm Yay $$$$

Anubis

01-01-2012, 08:54 AM

Nevermind . I bought 400 steel Garotes this christmas. I wish everyone in CC (cept Gayam) a Merry xmas and a happy new year!

I hope my hangover starts wearing off soon. I prob need to eat something.

Tramp Stamp

01-01-2012, 11:31 AM

Or do you just sell low pay out buildings and upgrade stuff?

I go with a hybrid solution. Buy the upgrade when I can afford it, which is when cash naturally stockpiles to the point where I can buy the expansion during an upgrade cycle. Meanwhile sell the low-end Type Bs to build some time later, though by that time they'll be strictly vanity purchases.

Joeycool

01-01-2012, 11:51 AM

I go with a hybrid solution. Buy the upgrade when I can afford it, which is when cash naturally stockpiles to the point where I can buy the expansion during an upgrade cycle. Meanwhile sell the low-end Type Bs to build some time later, though by that time they'll be strictly vanity purchases.

I never have any spare money really. I never save money. The only way it stockpiles is if I have nothing to spend it on.

But that never really happens as I enjoy the challenges... at the mo I have the Hummer challenge which costs $14m to complete. So Its always getting spent on either upgrades, challenges, new buildings or expansions.

Max Power

01-01-2012, 01:37 PM

Saving for a condo. Halfway there and half a level from qualifying.

I would be most the way there is the holidays didn't blow up collection times.

Tramp Stamp

01-01-2012, 06:16 PM

Killer week for holiday gold buyers. A new king has been crowned. Sorry, Syn; even though you made it to level 113 and built the Pirate Taverns you couldn't pull it out. Congratulations to AppleMacGuy for clearing $200k.

rocko: $107,907, +77.94%
xclusiv: $196,509, +66.35%
Syntarias: $115,500, +60.65%
joeycool: $122,039, +52.03%
Amber: $132,454, +37.41%
Syn: $18,743, +33.29%
Dorian: $73,351, +30.87%
Tramp Stamp: $27,243, +25.38%
Barbie Girl: $39,296, +20.04%
Jiggles: $44,178, +19.76%
Kaen: $27,928, +18.75%
Crimer: $46,032, +18.09% (6 days)
Keiser Soze: $41,372, +18.01% (6 days)
TLoord: $41,424,+ 14.40%
stixx: $121,085, +14.39%
qwikster: $65,698, +12.34%
Mickey: $81,249, +11.08%
duder : $55,074, +10.81%
AppleMacGuy: $202,102, +10.42%
popeye: $54,481, +6.75%
ShotInTheDark: $86,554, +0.81%

4 week gain

Syntarias: +875.09%
Syn: +292.85%
joeycool: +284.81%
Tramp Stamp: +191.46%
Amber: +190.25%
Kaen: +101.34%
Barbie Girl: +84.20%
qwikster: +72.13%
Mickey: +61.62%
TLoord: +58.02%
ShotInTheDark: +57.75%
duder: +56.33%
AppleMacGuy: +52.77%
popeye: +49.03%

Joeycool

01-01-2012, 06:23 PM

4 week gain

Syntarias: +875.09%
Syn: +292.85%
joeycool: +284.81%
Tramp Stamp: +191.46%
Amber: +190.25%
Kaen: +101.34%
Barbie Girl: +84.20%
qwikster: +72.13%
Mickey: +61.62%
TLoord: +58.02%
duder: +56.33%
AppleMacGuy: +52.77%
popeye: +49.03%

I think Syn should be disqualified for having 2 accounts, Wouldnt that make me top? ha ha!

Well doen syn... 875% over 4 weeks is awesome!

And well done for this week Rocko... About time someone toppled Syn from the top.

Thanks for this Tramp... You are adding another great dimention to the game and helping us keep track of how we are all doing.

Syn

01-01-2012, 06:23 PM

Syn

01-01-2012, 06:27 PM

I think Syn should be disqualified for having 2 accounts, Wouldnt that make me top? ha ha!

Well doen syn... 875% over 4 weeks is awesome!

And well done for this week Rocko... About time someone toppled Syn from the top.

Thanks for this Tramp... You are adding another great dimention to the game and helping us keep track of how we are all doing.

Thanks Joey!

Hahaha, my camper/sleeper account is very neglected. I check it maybe twice a day for a total of 10 minutes. Collect, find the longest upgrade/build time, farm defense items, and done.

Also, great job Libra! I'll be gunning for you next week :D

Tramp Stamp

01-01-2012, 06:28 PM

Funzio should pay me for getting you people to buy more gold to compete against each other.

Syn

01-01-2012, 06:38 PM

Funzio should pay me for getting you people to buy more gold to compete against each other.

I was thinking about that the other day, time for a few emails to Funzio..eh?

xclusiv

01-01-2012, 07:36 PM

damn rocko really come out or nowhere and just grabed that top spot congrats man, although i beat syn damn still didnt come in the lead damn you rocko! lol

Tramp Stamp

01-01-2012, 07:41 PM

This is fun. I never anticipated that the name of the game would be to beat Syn.

Syn

01-01-2012, 07:50 PM

This is fun. I never anticipated that the name of the game would be to beat Syn.

They may be winning this week, but I feel like they really are losing :( Just means they spent more time than I did on CC..

:p

Tramp Stamp

01-01-2012, 07:53 PM

The only winning move is not to play.

Joeycool

01-01-2012, 07:54 PM

damn rocko really come out or nowhere and just grabed that top spot congrats man, although i beat syn damn still didnt come in the lead damn you rocko! lol

You had a great week mate. The higher your hourly income the harder it is to achieve a high % increase too!

xclusiv

01-01-2012, 07:56 PM

They may be winning this week, but I feel like they really are losing :( Just means they spent more time than I did on CC..

:p

why do you cover your buildings numbers with trees? for robbing purposes? or?

Rarelibra

01-01-2012, 08:05 PM

damn rocko really come out or nowhere and just grabed that top spot congrats man, although i beat syn damn still didnt come in the lead damn you rocko! lol

And with the controversial funding post that we had, there will be enough $$ to provide quite a few upgrades. Coming soon.... ;)

Tramp Stamp

01-01-2012, 08:12 PM

xclusiv

01-01-2012, 08:19 PM

^ lol what? so who are the gold class players in the economy growth and who are the free?

Syn

01-01-2012, 08:28 PM

Not controversial from my standpoint. I encourage all gold buyers to manipulate their figures to the fullest extent possible. I've got you all broken down into "classes" already if anyone wants to discuss non-gold vs. gold growth.

I saw this coming, I bet I can name my class. 3-Hour Building, Too much gold buying, Impatient Twit. :p

Tramp Stamp

01-01-2012, 09:05 PM

0 "Abstainers": For whatever reason, the player has no gold buildings
1 "Ally Oops": Player has 1-2 Basketball Courts only
2 "Custard Sluts": Player has one Ice Cream Shop only
3 "Manipulators": Player is able to execute up to 20 gold worth of buildings, likely due to survey
4 "Baggers": Player utilizes up to 70 gold
5 "Stashers": Player utilizes up to 130 gold
6 "Stockpilers": Player utilizes up to 260 gold
7 "Truckers": Player utilizes up to 670 gold
8 "Vaulters": Player utilizes up to 1520 gold
9 "Hoarders": Player utilizes in excess of 1520 gold

Player breakdown

0: (nobody)
1: (nobody)
2: Kaen, Keiser Soze, Syn, TLoord
3: Crimer, Jiggles, Tramp Stamp
4: Barbie Girl, duder
5: Mickey
6: qwikster
7: ShotInTheDark
8: Dorian, joeycool, popeye
9: Amber, AppleMacGuy, rocko, stixx, Syntarias, xclusiv

Disclaimer: rankings due to quick survey. Inaccuracies likely.

xclusiv

01-01-2012, 09:10 PM

custard slut hahahahhahahhaah wtf lollllllllllll

there are two players called syn?

Tramp Stamp

01-01-2012, 09:13 PM

there are two players called syn?

Same player, two accounts.

xclusiv

01-01-2012, 09:15 PM

Same player, two accounts.

lol makes sense, whats number 10? u went from 0-9 what would ten be

Tramp Stamp

01-01-2012, 09:20 PM

I wanted to keep it single digit. I guess the last category could be split as there is a lot of variation between 1521 and the ~4500 I have logged for you. Maybe an "Insanity" category.

Tramp Stamp

01-01-2012, 09:42 PM

In all seriousness, it costs 8076 gold to construct all gold buildings. Going by "Vault of Gold", one could split 8,9, and 10 into the following:

8: Up to 1520
9: Up to 4520
10: Up to 8076

Anubis

01-02-2012, 02:40 AM

2 "Custard Sluts": Player has one Ice Cream Shop only

Syns a Custard Slut - thats great! I'm gonna open my game up now and visit the custard slut for a free $100!

Syn

01-02-2012, 02:48 AM

Syns a Custard Slut - thats great! I'm gonna open my game up now and visit the custard slut for a free $100!

I may be a Custard Slut, but you are going to earn that $100 bucks.

Joeycool

01-02-2012, 05:28 AM

I think you should change class 9 to "money burning a hole in pocket"

Duke.0

01-02-2012, 11:49 AM

I Got 10 gold left, i already own 2 basketball courts.

Should i make a ice cream shop?

Tramp Stamp

01-02-2012, 12:36 PM

Should i make a ice cream shop?

Definitely.

Joeycool

01-02-2012, 01:02 PM

double definitely

Tramp Stamp

01-02-2012, 01:38 PM

Following is my specific procedure to decide which upgrade to take next using the spreadsheet. The process makes heavy use of filtering, which is weak in Google Docs, so Excel or other "heavy duty" spreadsheet application is required. The filtering steps don't necessarily need to be done in the order presented, but since dependencies stack it's best to perform the most volatile steps at the end. Non-Tycoon fields are referenced; adjust accordingly.

1. Copy master sheet into new worksheet or new document. If starting over it's faster to create a new copy rather than clear the filters all the way back.

2. Sort by $/hr gain, highest to lowest.

3. Click on Level filter and uncheck "1" as we are interested only in upgrades.

4. Click on Output Time (hrs) "Greater Than Or Equal To" filter and input your shortest collection time.

5. Uncheck buildings unavailable to upgrade due to not being built or due to being at max level. This can be done from just the Name column or a from a combination of Name and Exp Level Unlocked.

6. Click on Upgrade / Build Cost "Less Than Or Equal To" filter and enter maximum upgrade budget.

7. Scan down the list for the first available upgrade and note the ROI.

8. Click on the ROI (hrs) "Less Than Or Equal To" filter and enter a number slightly higher than the noted ROI to account for rounding issues. This is done because we don't want any upgrades that provide less $/hr than the top entry while also taking longer to pay off.

9. Scan available upgrades, looking for efficiency. One could compare the drop in $/hr gain and ROI from the top choice to ones below, looking for the biggest spread, but I usually eyeball it. By this point the list will be limited, not many candidates will stand out, and available choices will be among the most efficient.

10. If new buildings become available and the Name column doesn't show them, clear filters starting from the last step and proceed backwards until they appear.

Over time you should find that this procedure yields approximately the same results as the suggested upgrade order. Type A buildings will dominate the list, gold and/or cash-equivalent gold buildings will spring up from time to time, and, other than high level upgrades to Arcade and Sports Bar you will most likely not take, regular Type B buildings will be no-shows for a long time.

Syn

01-02-2012, 02:27 PM

I have been doing this up to step 8. ROI really isn't my goal anymore. Quick cash, quick upgrades, just make it quick.

I'm building my second loft, and I really hate the build time. It's not even that bad compared to the other high level buildings! I better learn some patience :/

downrange

01-02-2012, 03:44 PM

Wow, Syn. You are at $115k/hour and still have a loft to upgrade? With your income you should be able to plow through several of those back to back to back. I am quite envious! I would recommend that patience you are halfway calling for, in order to do that, but wow, I don't know that i'm in any position to be giving you advice.

Syn

01-02-2012, 04:04 PM

downrange

01-02-2012, 04:12 PM

Syn, you also now have me doubting my overall build strategy. Again. I have several times had to re-convince myself that pursuing Type-A buildings exclusively over and above any Type-B, even to the point of not bothering with hood expansions or building Type-B's at level 1, is the way to go. I've been effectively pursuing a build strategy artificially limited to the way Duder is - at low level with access only to the early and mafia-unlocks - despite actually having the higher levels and thus having many Type-B buildings available to construct. Some of these are highly coveted buildings that people seem to swear by. But I've been deferring those based on the value of the Type-A upgrade path, with the minor exceptions of some very fast ROI Type-B buildings, all of which are already "paid-off" and unupgraded so they can be instantly razed if i happen to need space for a nightclub (yah, like that's gonna sneak up on me, hah!).

I'm at the point now where the next hood expansion is a much smaller fraction of my daily take than it would've been just a few weeks ago, but I just don't see the value of more space at the moment and more buildings past the Type-A's - those upgrades are just so cheap comparatively. I do feel like I might be over-exposed heading ever closer to the red zone though. Once the HL's can see me the vast majority of my income will be focused on a tiny handful of 12 hour buildings. That means a missed collection will hurt a lot in no time, but I suppose it also means that collecting might be fast and sweet - I noticed a post recently about the time to collect a bunch of buildings all at once being a problem. Not sure if I'm asking for advice here or just talking it out. I think my strategy is set, I just have lingering doubts, and probably will for the next 20-ish levels.

downrange

01-02-2012, 04:25 PM

My other loft is only level 2 as well. 40 hour upgrade? No thanks, I'll wait for a Skyrim marathon to do that one.

By the math, it really is a sweet upgrade though. I have both of my Lofts at 3 now and am taking an Italian Rest. to level 9 while I accumulate the funds for the two Loft 4 upgrades. The way I think of it is this... for the Type A buildings that first upgrade is the best value in the game. If there are any exceptions, I don't know 'em. I visualize it as building 2 more Lofts on top of the first (no additional land space needed) for 167% of the cost of the first. So you get two more lofts, each at 83.5% the cost of the first. The next upgrade gets you three more Lofts stacked up on for 279% and from there it approaches par, but is still great value going forward especially when you compare the upgrade times vs the construction times of comparable buildings. Don't know if that helps at all. The flip side is that you forgo income during an upgrade. Hm, maybe that's just the thing i need to justify the cost of expansion and then new buildings. I usually write-off the income loss of upgrade into the ROI, but considering it relative to an expansion plus new construction, that actually might help me.

Tramp Stamp

01-02-2012, 05:06 PM

for the Type A buildings that first upgrade is the best value in the game.

Level 3 generally has lower ROI than 2, though I agree in general.

even to the point of not bothering with hood expansions or building Type-B's at level 1, is the way to go. I've been effectively pursuing a build strategy artificially limited to the way Duder is - at low level with access only to the early and mafia-unlocks - despite actually having the higher levels and thus having many Type-B buildings available to construct.

I think it's highly worthwhile expanding to fit level 1 Type B buildings. I don't know where the cutoff point is, but the newly added cash-equivalent gold buildings grant a nice income boost.

Some of these are highly coveted buildings that people seem to swear by.

In terms of upgrades, outside of gold buildings, cash-equivalent gold buildings, and the highest end regular buildings, I'm not seeing it. And, even then, the upgrades don't start showing up until you're well into Movie Theaters and Lofts by either $/hr gain or ROI metrics. All that's left is upgrade time, which I feel is overemphasized as an economic argument.

downrange

01-02-2012, 08:43 PM

Level 3 generally has lower ROI than 2, though I agree in general.

You are correct. ROI is generally better for level 3, and although I should probably check first, I'll assume this is entirely due to the disproportionately lower increase in upgrade time. I was writing in context of "cash" value only (though I didn't specify that; my fault), not generalized value which would also include time, possibly also space, etc. In terms of generalized value, yes level 3 reigns!
I still submit that looking at money value only, that level 2 of Type-A buildings is king, and that only level 2 and level 3 (for type-A) beat initial construction in terms of value for money. This is purely academic though, since time *is* a huge factor in the game, and my hope was basically to reinforce what you've already proved, which is that early Type-A upgrades are fantastic value and should be very high on the priority list of anyone interested in their economy.

I think it's highly worthwhile expanding to fit level 1 Type B buildings. I don't know where the cutoff point is, but the newly added cash-equivalent gold buildings grant a nice income boost.

I'm warming up to that lately. I had already built the two Dominicans based on your recommendation in this thread and after glancing at their ROI. I had the space and went for it. I think you've got me convinced, and I'll probably start in on some expansion and construction soon.

In terms of upgrades, outside of gold buildings, cash-equivalent gold buildings, and the highest end regular buildings, I'm not seeing it. And, even then, the upgrades don't start showing up until you're well into Movie Theaters and Lofts by either $/hr gain or ROI metrics. All that's left is upgrade time, which I feel is overemphasized as an economic argument.

Yup, I had generally dismissed Type-B's a while back because I assumed that everyone was upgrading them all, and that due to hood cost no building would ever earn it's keep at level 1 for long. For whatever reason I just hadn't 'thought' of constructing a bunch of buildings that I intended to keep at level 1 for so long. I just assumed that some of those expensive ones would do little to help and I knew they would delay my MT and Loft upgrades, which I am constantly saving for. Having your conclusion fit with the only way I could imagine those buildings being worthwhile counts a ton, so as just mentioned I think I'll re-prioritize them. Thanks!

Amber_

01-03-2012, 12:31 PM

WTF, have I spent THAT much gold? Had no idea. I'm never buying gold again.

MadHatter

01-03-2012, 12:34 PM

WTF, have I spent THAT much gold? Had no idea. I'm never buying gold again.

You will be buying gold for sure AMBER_ because you suck at the game and cannot compete without it. If you listened to my guide you would have better stats and have not spent a penny on gold, loser!

Rarelibra

01-03-2012, 12:36 PM

You will be buying gold for sure AMBER_ because you suck at the game and cannot compete without it. If you listened to my guide you would have better stats and have not spent a penny on gold, loser!

I am coming to the opinion that you, MadHatter, are a very rude and disrespectful person. The kinds of comments above (and others by you that I have observed) lend me to believe that you lack the maturity or the common sense to deal with people on a normal level.

With that in mind, please refrain from saying something unless it is constructive an not personal in nature.

MadHatter

01-03-2012, 12:41 PM

Have you not come across Madhatter before? im pretty good a what I do mate ;)

And your are beginning to grab my attention, could rarelibra be madhatters new plaything?

Rarelibra

01-03-2012, 12:43 PM

Have you not come across Madhatter before? im pretty good a what I do mate ;)

And your are beginning to grab my attention, could rarelibra be madhatters new plaything?

Who's side are you on? New plaything? Save it for your coming war. Just use respect when addressing people in the forum, especially ladies like Amber.

Joeycool

01-03-2012, 03:12 PM

WTF, have I spent THAT much gold? Had no idea. I'm never buying gold again.

I thought the same! But I bet eventually I will be tempted! I bet you are too!! :)

Joeycool

01-03-2012, 03:14 PM

Who's side are you on? New plaything? Save it for your coming war. Just use respect when addressing people in the forum, especially ladies like Amber.

Rocko, I can no longer see Madhatters posts... however I can imagine the kind of things she is trolling.

I have posted this link many times and people are always over the moon when I point it out to them:

http://www.funzio.com/forum/profile.php?do=ignorelist

Enjoy the piece! :)

MadHatter

01-03-2012, 03:24 PM

Joey cool always spreading the love....

Not being seen is an actual gift I can use. I can ghost write but you can't see what iv put and that has its advantages :)

Like the link below. That JoeyCool has no idea about as he can't see what i write. Not even this lol

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?15986-Facebook-invite-thread!/page2

Anubis

01-03-2012, 03:42 PM

CCMark

Surely you can see how much of a troll this guy is. Speakingto the ladies of the forum, and their are only a few, like the way he has done makes me feel he has crossed the line in a way that can never be recrossed.

Seriously Mark, the forum is now littered with his pathetic, trolling, and lets face it - poor intelliagiencly made comments (and no-one notice my poor spelling lol - im a math man!). It seemed like he got a week or two's ban before. I think he has shown over the last 10 threads he desereves to be permanently banned.

MadHatter

01-03-2012, 03:45 PM

I treat men and women then same. Iv never been banned. I try my best to give the best information in my posts...

Amber_

01-04-2012, 08:51 AM

You will be buying gold for sure AMBER_ because you suck at the game and cannot compete without it. If you listened to my guide you would have better stats and have not spent a penny on gold, loser!

You don't even know my stats ladypadlicker, and I'm sure I would kick your ass. Oh that's right, you don't even have an account because you're a troll lol

MadHatter

01-04-2012, 08:53 AM

I dout you would kick my arse if you tried I'd snap you neck ;)

Joeycool

01-04-2012, 11:01 AM

Ha ha! Madhatter = Banned. FINALLY!!!

BBz

01-04-2012, 11:04 AM

I was just reading post by him in your facebook thread. When and why did he get banned?

Joeycool

01-04-2012, 11:13 AM

No idea... I cant see her posts because they are on my ignore list... But on my feed it comes up as Madhatter - banned

As to why she got banned - Really!!??? ha ha!

MadHattersMother

01-04-2012, 11:15 AM

Joey you appear to be obssesed with my child....

Joeycool

01-04-2012, 11:21 AM

Joey you appear to be obssesed with my child....

Nope... I have no interest in 12 year old girls.

Welcome to my ignore list madhattersmother. I'm sure you will reply to this my dear... to which I could come up with a more witty and humorous retort... but unfortunately I wont be able to see it.

Enjoy!

MadHattersMother

01-04-2012, 11:30 AM

In that case Madhatter says "sorry joey" lol

2Legit

01-04-2012, 11:52 AM

Lol ^^ at the username :D

MadHattersMother

01-04-2012, 12:02 PM

Lol ^^ at the username :D

Do you find it funny that an "Older woman" participates in the forum and plays crime city? This is not the dark ages 2legit....

2Legit

01-04-2012, 12:08 PM

Welcome to CRIME CITY, Mrs Troll!

faizur

01-04-2012, 11:01 PM

Is there any stat with ROI based on the % of times the collection is done. For example, in 24 hr, out of a possible 288 collections of a laundromat, one might collect only 20 times and therefore, in practical sence, the ROI is much worse where as for a movie theater, one might collect 10 times in 6 days (ie out of 12 collections)

Tramp Stamp

01-04-2012, 11:08 PM

Presently you have to download your own copy and add the stat yourself.

AppleMacGuy

01-05-2012, 05:31 AM

High level players strongly prefer long payout buildings, and it's for good reason. At higher levels, robberies are more common, long payout buildings become comparatively more powerful, and it becomes difficult to play any game on a regular frequency over long periods of time.

However, many players make the mistake of consolidating to long payout buildings too early. My rival list is living proof of this. Hood after hood of high level Gun Shops, Pawn Shops, and Warehouses, and most of them don't exceed $3,000/hr and some are under $1,000. What's funny is I rarely see high level Tattoo Parlors. Even Electronics Stores are more common. Tattoo Parlor is the best available long payout building available early on next to House, but all of these buildings, except House, are literally at the very bottom of the list of $/hr income.

As for advice when to sell off quicker paying buildings, the proposed build strategy heavily favors the Loft and Movie Theater, both of which pay out in 12 hour cycles. Over time lesser buildings will become marginalized. Once they collectively contribute below a certain percentage, then they can be sold.

Hi. Very interesting to read this and agree with the observations. I am now at level 151 and I have high-level Gun Shops, Pawn Shops, and Warehouses still kicking around - they have been upgraded to L6, L8 and L8 respectively. IMO it makes no sense to keep them, but psychologically I am 'unable' to sell them due to the time invested in the upgrades! Also, as their footprints of the first 2 are small I am (ahem) 'persuaded' to keep them (for now at least). Conversely, I should absolutely get rid of the warehouses as they consume a vast amount of expensive hood space, but the last upgrade at 67 hours x2 still irks me into holding onto them! I've just completed the $15 million hood expansion - you'd think I'd learn something from that!

Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I got rid of the buildings in approx. the following order: Diner, Deli, Pizza Parlour, Electronic Store, Gas Station, Italian Restaurant, Barbershop, Tatto Parlour, Bagel Shop, Fish Store, Clothing Shop, Shoe Store, Meat Factory. Decisions were unsurprisingly primarily dictated by space requirements first, and collection cycles second. At the time cash for hood expansion was not so easy to come by as I didn't have so many high payout buildings producing cash so I had to think a lot more about selling 'poor' cash generating buildings.

Currently I'm also giving serious thought to selling all my 3 hour buildings purely on the basis of the hassle they enti
ail with the short 3 hour collection cycle. I'm only missing one collection per day (everyone's gotta sleep sometime!), but it is becoming more an more of an effort to maintain the collection discipline.

Nudie

01-05-2012, 06:47 AM

AppleMacGuy

01-05-2012, 07:52 AM

Even 12 hour collection cycles can be a problem for me so I am focusing mainly on my 24 & 48 hour buildings. Cannot collect while I sleep or while I work so the only sure time is when I wake up. Keeping all my shorter collection cycle building as even if they get robbed a lot they still contribute something.

You must work more than 12 hour shifts then as that is the only way (I think) that the 12 hour buildings could not be collected regularly?

IMO, the major factor on maximising collection rates/amounts for all buildings with payout intervals over 1 hour is a player's ability to sync. up their collections. if you're not already doing so, you should ensure that all your buildings with the same payout interval are synched up. In fact, it is possible to synch 12/24/48 such that you end up collecting 12/24 and 12/24/48 together, but it requires quite an effort to achieve this, and even more effort to maintain this! The average (experienced) player's biggest enemy has to be de-synching IMO :-(

But in the end, the range of buildings is such that there is something to suit every players requirements, although I suspect that it would be nice to have some more 24/48 hour buildings?

BTW, I'm not all convinced by the 18 hour warehouse that was recently introduced.

stixx

01-05-2012, 07:57 AM

I refuse to sell any building, id rather spend millions on an streetupgrade.
Imo every building earns cash for me, even when its just a little/hour.
Also that keeps me logging in and collect / spend some stamina.

But i do admit that i prefer the 12+hour buildings since those are the only i can prevent from being robbed.

Atm im upgradig my it rest. And the plan is to upgrade all type a before startin on B.

Max Power

01-05-2012, 08:08 AM

Synching can be brutal for those of us requiring wireless to play. Social and work/travel events get in the way of collection, and that is the only time I get ****d. I thought it would all be over when I was up for an iPhone from Verizon, but they sent me one that wouldn't activate, and now the replacement wont arrive until late January.

I recently was synched for 5:30am/pm pickup for my 12s, and last night I got stuck in a traffic jam. Didn't get home till six, and of course was robbed blind because I can be seen by all the HLs. It wouldn't have happened if Verizon could actually get a working phone in the hands of their customers.

I think Tramp Stamps notes on early lebvel building and people's incomes based on collection times is interesting, but it doesn't take one thing into account. I think a huge number of people in this game are playing 2nd games, as I plan to do when my phone arrives, and the lower level 2nd game is not one they can afford to spend a lot of time with. While Laundrymats are great at generating income, I am not sure I want them in my 2nd game. It will be too much of a time suck.

I too have sold buildings based on space and collection times, but usually space. I just sold a level 7 warehouse to make room for a Condo. It's not hard to say goodbye to a warehouse when it hauls in 17k every 48 hours and you are replacing it with a building thet hauls in 288k for the same time frame. Hell, my Dominicans are bringing in three times that. I make more cash farming for M4s than that waehouse provided. Good riddance.

whocareswhatmynameis

01-05-2012, 08:15 AM

...

I just sold a level 7 warehouse to make room for a Condo. It's not hard to say goodbye to a warehouse when it hauls in 17k every 48 hours and you are replacing it with a building thet hauls in 288k for the same time frame. Hell, my Dominicans are bringing in three times that. I make more cash farming for M4s than that waehouse provided. Good riddance.

i parted with my warehouses a while back when, like you, i realized that they have atrocious space efficiency. at some point, selling your underperforming buildings becomes more reasonable than dropping gazillions on your next upgrade.

Tramp Stamp

01-05-2012, 08:27 AM

I think Tramp Stamps notes on early lebvel building and people's incomes based on collection times is interesting, but it doesn't take one thing into account. I think a huge number of people in this game are playing 2nd games, as I plan to do when my phone arrives, and the lower level 2nd game is not one they can afford to spend a lot of time with. While Laundrymats are great at generating income, I am not sure I want them in my 2nd game. It will be too much of a time suck.

I don't know about "huge number" of 2nd games, but, you're right, the low level recommendations are meant for 1st time players who will be highly active due to playing a new game. I'm assuming that a player starting a 2nd game has learned enough not to need specific opening advice. In this case, however, Ice Cream Shops still work out. Even at an average of slightly north of a single daily pickup they're a better investment than Tattoo Parlors, Pawn Shops, and Gun Shops. Regardless of play style, at this level there's just nowhere else to go but for Laundromats and/or Ice Cream Shops.

Tramp Stamp

01-05-2012, 09:02 AM

Something to keep in mind when considering my recommendation of pushing Laundromats and/or Ice Cream Shops:

At this time the player is saving for Movie Theaters and Lofts. It's the only stage of the game where I specifically recommend saving up for anything. A way of taking the economic sting out of the saving process is to target upgrades with low sticker prices, low ROI, and high $/hr gain. Laundromats and Ice Cream Shops are basically all that qualifies. The next best upgrade with this criteria is to Pizza Parlors, but the drop in $/hr gain is precipitous. Basically all other upgrades in this range add on the order of $50/hr to the bottom line, which will be less than 1%. So the choice is basically Laundromats/Ice Cream Shops or other stuff that costs the same or more to upgrade and has less of a return.

Max Power

01-05-2012, 11:00 AM

Dont you mean high ROI?

Tramp Stamp

01-05-2012, 11:31 AM

Dont you mean high ROI?

I guess it can be misleading, but I'm referring to the end number where lower is better.

Matthew91188

01-05-2012, 05:17 PM

How do I get added to the tracking list? :)

Tramp Stamp

01-05-2012, 05:53 PM

Send me an invite and tell me who you are.

Tramp Stamp

01-08-2012, 03:44 PM

Pretty lean week for everybody. Must be holiday hangovers. Laundromats are down to 30.23% of my rated income.

xclusiv: $241,489, +22.89%
Syntarias: $139,099, +20.43%
Tramp Stamp: $32,746, +20.20%
Crimer: $53,687, +16.63%
Anubis: $125,574, +16.25% (6 days)
Keiser Soze: $47,870, +15.71%
duder: $62,769, +13.97%
rocko: $122,104, +13.16%
qwikster: $74,263, +13.04%
Barbie Girl: $44,001, +11.97%
Mickey: $90,842, +11.81%
Syn: $20,734, +10.62%
madawgg: $78,256, +10.57%
ShotInTheDark: $95,693, +10.56%
TLoord: $45,446, +9.71%
Kaen: $30,601, +9.57%
Dorian: $79,696, +8.65%
joeycool: $131,893, +8.07%
Jiggles: $47,643, +7.84%
Amber: $142,598, +7.66%
popeye: $58,646, +7.64%
AppleMacGuy: $216,929, +7.34%
stixx: $128,650, +6.25%

4 week gain

Syntarias: +435.63%
Syn: +171.10%
Tramp Stamp: +157.38%
joeycool: +155.80%
Dorian: +91.96%
Kaen: +84.71%
Barbie Girl: +81.02%
ShotInTheDark: +75.36%
Amber: +74.31%
stixx: +71.29%
Jiggles: +63.99%
TLoord: +63.45%
qwikster: +56.23%
duder: +53.00%
Mickey: +51.29%
popeye: +36.85%
AppleMacGuy: +36.76%

Matthew91188

01-08-2012, 05:40 PM

I added you. My in game name is Yeababy and my current income is 132,269. Thanks :)

whocareswhatmynameis

01-08-2012, 05:46 PM

@tramp stamp:

thanks for the weekly update. keep up with the good work!

Rarelibra

01-09-2012, 05:33 AM

I would have been at $129k, but I sold both of my Adult Theaters after being ransacked for days by the same person and getting fed up. Also noticing that it is worth more ROI to upgrade a 12/24/48. Fun part is after you upgrade and wait for it to sync, seeing it get pounded by robberies. Ugh.

Matthew91188

01-09-2012, 05:50 AM

I sold all my 3 and 6 hour buildings including lv 10 ice cream shops and others because I rarely collected the full amount and I was also tired of getting robbed. Ende up being about 13k per hour but not a huge deal... I just got my gentlemans clubs :)

Rarelibra

01-09-2012, 05:52 AM

Matthew91188

01-09-2012, 05:57 AM

They're awesome :) and I'm only 4mil away from my second hotel so it's a pretty good week for me.

xclusiv

01-12-2012, 08:15 PM

nice ...............

duder

01-13-2012, 01:05 PM

Finally! Now that I placed in the top ten of % increase, I'm prepared for sitting at the bottom for a while! I've reached that hallowed point where it makes economic sense to save up for the nightclub (if you remove the option of playing like a normal person and leveling up to make more buildings available) .

Hold onto your socks - be prepared for my stunning 5 weeks of sub 5% gains followed by a 50% increase week (I'm so excited I can't wait... um, I mean, I'm going to wait until I don't have to... um, crap, nevermind).

Though to follow this thread, it sound like in a year or two (once I get to high level?) my hood is going to be candy for freaks. That's disheartening. Ah well, at least it's going to be a while before I have to deal with that!

Tramp Stamp

01-13-2012, 01:11 PM

Are you gonna finish off the Movie Theaters and get Lofts up to 7?

downrange

01-13-2012, 04:05 PM

5 weeks is a long wait! much longer than the ROI on some of your still-to-do upgrades. You sure about the timing? I'm going to echo Tramp Stamp regarding Lofts and MT. My Lofts are at 4 and MTs at 7, and I think there are several of those upgrades to go still before I pause for Nightclub - which is my plan. I hadn't figured it out exactly yet, but was figuring on about what Tramp Stamp mentioned/hinted, in my case maybe pausing at Lofts 6 and MTs at 9, depending on how much I end up clearing per day at that time.

edit: scratch this post. I'm crunching some of the numbers by hand, and the ROI as listed in hours seems understated by a large factor (i made a local copy of the spreadsheet, and vaguely recall an update to the calculation was made -- gonna check that now). If the ROI for Loft 6 and some others isn't actually less your time horizon of 5 weeks, that makes perfect sense to start your wait, duder.

Euchred

01-13-2012, 04:11 PM

To build or not to build.

Just a quick building scenario, I've decided to put all my major upgrades on hold so I can build 2 condos 2 credit agencies then if my level is high enough and it should be Gents clubs followed by hotels. Is this smart? the alternative would be upgrading my zues' to lvl 3 and churches to lvl 3 followed by my lofts to lvl 6. I can't do both cause I don't make enough money. In order to afford to build I have to save almost all my income.

Tramp Stamp

01-13-2012, 07:34 PM

i made a local copy of the spreadsheet, and vaguely recall an update to the calculation was made -- gonna check that now

Holy ****, how old is that copy? I made that change over a month ago.

I'm not gonna argue with duder's strategy, partly because I want to see a Nightclub in a level 9 hood. A request to duder: leave the comments up a few days. I want to see people flipping out over it.

But I will go on record saying that I believe players generally should be constantly dumping money on upgrades and not saving up for any significant length of time. duder's in a different class of player, though, so this isn't directed at him. Specifically with regards to the Loft, its ROI for all practical purposes is always better than doing anything with the Nightclub so it's not like it's a sunk cost.

I've decided to put all my major upgrades on hold so I can build 2 condos 2 credit agencies then if my level is high enough and it should be Gents clubs followed by hotels. Is this smart?

I advocate parallel building and upgrading with the emphasis that something should be upgrading at all times, even if it's a Pawn Shop or Guard Tower. The upgrade resource is too valuable to waste.

whocareswhatmynameis

01-13-2012, 07:43 PM

I advocate parallel building and upgrading with the emphasis that something should be upgrading at all times, even if it's a Pawn Shop or Guard Tower. The upgrade resource is too valuable to waste.

i agree. time is a premium resource in CC. time not spent in upgrades is time wasted!

Rarelibra

01-13-2012, 08:38 PM

Only 3 more levels until my Gentlemen's Clubs!

downrange

01-13-2012, 11:51 PM

Holy ****, how old is that copy? I made that change over a month ago.

No, my local number is now confirmed to match the online spreadsheet. I'm still scratching my head though.

Help me figure out how I'm thinking about this wrong, please. The Tycoon ROI for Loft 6 appears to be: 594.88
For that same Loft 6 upgrade the "Tycoon $/hr gain" is: $7,058.33 (this is a simpler calculation - quickly confirmed as correct)
If I ignore all the complex stuff and back-of-a-paper napkin this... if I'm making about $7k more per hour on that Loft vs the previous level, after 595 hours I'll have accumulated an additional $4.16M

But I paid $9.8M for the upgrade. How have I achieved ROI? I would define ROI as a return of that $9.8M, as gained from the difference between the the Level5 output vs the Level6 output (again simplifying away some of the things like upgrade time loss of income, etc.). If the $7k number is right, it should take like 1400 hours at minimum to ROI that $9.8M, give or take. What am I missing? I'm off by a factor of two somehow. Or am I not thinking of ROI correctly?

downrange

01-14-2012, 12:24 AM

I'm thinking about this a bit more and I don't think I've ever used the ROI value directly - I've only used it in relation to other ROI values, and generally only as a secondary indicator, so this has never come up for me before.

-- Sorry for doubting your plan initially, duder. If the ROI for that upgrade is more like 1400 as I'm tentatively now thinking - your plan seems solid. Your economy is a bit ahead of mine, so I sincerely thank you for posting as I might not have stopped upgrading those lofts/MTs at the optimum time otherwise. I don't know what criteria i was going to use for when to stop and sprint to the Nightclub, and I still don't actually - but at least i know i ought to figure that out a bit sooner than i thought i needed to. Thanks.

If I recall from past posts, duder you believe like I do in tracking $/hr/upgrade-time.
That was actually the reason I made a local copy of the spreadsheet - to add column AD "Tycoon $/hr/time" =L1/R1
I format it as currency, sort Z->A and I feel that gives me a clearer picture of where the value is, and what my top upgrade candidates are. It maps closely to the results of the method that Tramp Stamp has posted in this thread, and we all reach the same high level general conclusions, but I find it clearer to look at from almost any sort view, and for my priorities, it shows me more clearly which buildings i should focus on, which i should never bother with, and what buildings will fall off in relevance before I ever get back to them. It's a clearer priority order, for me.

I am still interested in an accurate ROI though, despite having rarely or almost never used that so far. ROI for some of the upcoming loft/MT upgrades will probably be a primary consideration for timing when to make that sprint to NC, and my timing may be different from yours, duder since I have leveled up and have the newer near-Gold Type-B's available to upgrade. I can't believe how long I ignored those! I was already in holiday/family mode when those came out and didn't consider them or re-download the spreadsheet until weeks after they were available. oops!

duder

01-14-2012, 08:53 AM

Just my two cents:

The break even on loft lvl 5 => lvl 6 should be 1589 hours (that's including opportunity cost of lost revenue)

The equation to determine the point at which an upgrade breaks even should look at the increase in income (not the new income) to determine how quickly the cost of the upgrade would be covered. It should be total cost / increase in income per some unit of time.

Let's see, it looks like the spreadsheet calculates loft ROI as:
(((current output/collection frequency) * upgrade time + cost)/(new income/hour)) + upgrade time
or
((revenue during the upgrade + upgrade cost) / new income) + upgrade time

To change to what I described above, the new income term (second to last term in the equation) should probably be changed to (new income/hr - current income/hr) and the upgrade time should probably be dropped.

duder

01-14-2012, 09:00 AM

@downrange
I have been thinking about overhauling my econ post to talk about this a little more. Basically, I want to take it back to first principles in terms of what you actually invest when you do a upgrade or build a building and then talk about maximizing the return on those components.

The challenge is that I'm trying to find an index which balances return on invested cash, return on invested time, and return on invested space. I'm struggling to find the conversion factor that allows one to consider all three in a single shot. Completely focusing on $/hr/hr really only works if you assume infinite cash on hand as it doesn't allow for the fact that those upgrades need to value return on investment as well. I haven't really put much thought into the return on space aspect of the balanced equation yet, but I suspect this would come strongly into play when considering which of many buildings should be added (and/or removed?) - a part of the game that I just haven't had to bump up against yet (and which I hope to avoid - somehow spending a few million on upgrading space just doesn't strike me as that expensive :p ).

@ Tramp Stamp
Once the first nightclub comes in, I'll leave the comments up for at least a week at a time (should be funny).

I'm actually going to leave my MT's at level 7 and my lofts at level 5 during this save up, since the ROI on building a nightclub is slightly better than more upgrades on these two buildings. Among other things, I've shifted my build/upgrade order strategy to focus on maximizing ROI for any upgrade/building which I have to save more than 12 hours for. MT takes roughly 5 days for me to save for, Loft 9-10, nightclub 33. Since I can't start them instantly, I need to increase my cashflow until I can! Therefore I want to maximize my return on the investment for those top end upgrades/buildings. For all my other upgrades, I consider those upgrades to be in an "always have enough cash on hand" category. If I'm actively saving for a top end upgrade, I will do either:
-the AHECOH upgrade with a break even point before I would finish saving up which increases my income the fastest
-or the AHECOH upgrade with the longest upgrade time and highest ROI (multiply ROI by upgrade time and pick the biggest)

I would like to point out that upgrading the MTs to lvl 10 and Lofts to lvl 7 would take over 46 days on upgrade time alone - that doesn't include time spent waiting to have enough cash on hand to start the upgrades! This hurts my style of play further once you consider that each loft represents roughly 26% of my expected income and each MT 15% - oh the opportunity cost while they upgrade! One nightclub gets me halfway between where I currently am and where I would be were I to get the MTs to lvl 10 and lofts to lvl 7 roughly 6 days earlier (that's comparing save + build time for the nightclub to just the upgrade time on the MTs and Lofts). Additionally, it lessens the burden on my MTs and Lofts (of course when it comes in, the nighclub will be roughly 32% of my total economy... ah well).

Tramp Stamp

01-14-2012, 10:19 AM

I explicitly explain the ROI calculation here:

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?13183-Payout-algorithm-explained&p=77700&viewfull=1#post77700

Tramp Stamp

01-14-2012, 12:47 PM

Turns out you guys are right: the old calculation was (almost) correct. Here's where I went wrong; the old formula:

Numerator = Forfeited income + Destroyed partial payout + Upgrade sticker price
Denominator = New income rate

There's a very important cost missing in the numerator and that's what the building would have pulled at the old rate. Conceptually, the way it's calculated now is that the lower level building stops producing when the higher level completes, which is obviously incorrect. It's quite ironic, really, because I've criticized calculations which take into account only the sticker price, and that's what the current calculation basically does.

So good job guys but you only get partial credit because you left TemplarX out to dry when he tried arguing this previously.

I'll correct the sheet in the near future.

duder

01-14-2012, 01:37 PM

Bah, I thought by not correcting him, my silence would be construed as support!

You still should use marginal increase in income as your denominator (i.e. new income/hr - current income/hr or rather current income/hr - old income/hr) as what you would have pulled in from the old rate is not a finite calculatable sum that you would put into the numerator.

Here's the simple excersize:

Current Income (I) = $100/hr
Cost to upgrade (C) = $300
New Income (N) = $200/hr
Upgrade duration (D) = 4 hr

Numerator (total cost to upgrade) = C + I*D = $300 + $100/hr*4 hr = $700
Denominator (increase in income/hr) = N - I = $200/hr - $100/hr = $100/hr

Break even = $700 / $100/hr = 7 hr

If you wanted to do this excersize from calculating the actual incomes, let's assume you start the upgrade process at the beginning of hour 1:

Hour___Upgrade Path___No Upgrade
1________-300___________100
2__________0____________100
3__________0____________100
4__________0____________100
5_________200___________100
6_________200___________100
7_________200___________100
8_________200___________100
9_________200___________100
10________200___________100
11________200___________100
Total_____1100__________1100

As you can see, it takes 7 hours of collections on the upgrade path (beginning at hour 5) to catch up to the no upgrade path.

You can still add in the partial payout to the total cost figure, though that should be unique to players depending on when they start the upgrade and how close to perfect collection they would normally assume (personally I calculate everything based on expected income per day based on my play style, so it's already implied).

Tramp Stamp

01-14-2012, 02:14 PM

Honestly I might just dump the partial payments. No one uses them and the columns take up a lot of space. I'm tired of looking at them myself.

Rarelibra

01-15-2012, 05:55 PM

So it's Sunday evening... looking forward to see the numbers for the week. I finally made level 125 and added those beautiful gentlemen's clubs.

Syn

01-15-2012, 06:34 PM

So it's Sunday evening... looking forward to see the numbers for the week. I finally made level 125 and added those beautiful gentlemen's clubs.

I got 125 earlier...I think I shall wait a bit to add mine though :D

Tramp Stamp

01-15-2012, 07:48 PM

A middling week for yours truly. A $1 million expansion put me in the hole and timings weren't quite right otherwise. I finally upgraded a Loft, though, so that's something. Personal economy breakdown:

Laundromats: $9,900.00/hr, 26.60%
Movie Theaters + Lofts: $9,716.67/hr, 26.10%
Ice Cream Shops + Italian Restaurants: $5,977.66/hr, 16.06%
The Rest: $11,628/hr, 31.24%

So basically Movie Theaters and Lofts have finally caught up with Laundromats.

reichertc2011: $195,566, +135.10%
rocko: $180,709, +48.00%
yeababy: $188,823, +42.76%
qwikster: $99,053, +33.38%
stixx: $163,292, +26.93%
Keiser Soze: $58,318, +21.83%
Syntarias: $158,680, +14.08%
Crimer: $61,188, +13.97%
Tramp Stamp: $37,223, +13.67%
madawgg: $88,451, +13.03%
Kaen: $34,450, +12.58%
TLoord: $50,933, +12.07%
Jiggles: $53,265, +11.80%
Dorian: $88,568, +11.13%
Barbie Girl: $48,616, +10.49%
Mickey: $100,069, +10.16%
joeycool: $143,970, +9.16%
Amber: $155,650, +9.15%
Syn: $22,581, +8.91%
ShotInTheDark: $102,293, +6.90%
xclusiv: $255,733, +5.90%
duder: $66,120, +5.34%
AppleMacGuy: $227,134, +4.70%
popeye: $60,686, +3.48%
Anubis: $129,882, +3.43%

4 week gain

Syntarias: +279.06%
joeycool: +150.65%
Tramp Stamp: +131.40%
stixx: +99.04%
Syn: +90.61%
qwikster: +77.03%
Amber: +70.52%
ShotInTheDark: +66.22%
Kaen: +65.62%
Dorian: +65.24%
Jiggles: +63.98%
TLoord: +60.63%
Barbie Girl: +57.16%
Mickey: +46.02%
duder: +39.58%
AppleMacGuy: +37.44%
popeye: +21.48%

whocareswhatmynameis

01-15-2012, 08:48 PM

...

reichertc2011: $195,566, +135.10%
rocko: $180,709, +48.00%
yeababy: $188,823, +42.76%
qwikster: $99,053, +33.38%
...

did not make it to the top 3. not even after getting 2 rock cafes. oh well...

Tramp Stamp

01-15-2012, 08:53 PM

did not make it to the top 3. not even after getting 2 rock cafes. oh well...

EDIT: Oops, thought you meant 4 week gain. I'll leave this in case anyone is interested.

EDIT2: reichertc2011 cannot be caught if he continues at the pace he's going.

Syn [alt account] and I had considerably less income, making it easier to advance quickly. Here's the breakdown from 4 weeks ago:

Syntarias: $41,861
joeycool: $57,438
Tramp Stamp: $16,086
stixx: $82,041
Syn: $11,847
qwikster: $55,952
Amber: $91,281
ShotInTheDark: $61,540
Kaen: $20,801
Dorian: $53,600
Jiggles: $32,483
TLoord: $31,708
Barbie Girl: $30,934
Mickey: $68,530
duder: $47,372
AppleMacGuy: $165,261
popeye: $49,956

whocareswhatmynameis

01-15-2012, 08:59 PM

^^ this is getting really annoying.

our pleas for moderators have fallen on deaf ears!

Rarelibra

01-16-2012, 07:04 AM

EDIT: Oops, thought you meant 4 week gain. I'll leave this in case anyone is interested.

EDIT2: reichertc2011 cannot be caught if he continues at the pace he's going.

Syn [alt account] and I had considerably less income, making it easier to advance quickly. Here's the breakdown from 4 weeks ago:

Syntarias: $41,861
joeycool: $57,438
Tramp Stamp: $16,086
stixx: $82,041
Syn: $11,847
qwikster: $55,952
Amber: $91,281
ShotInTheDark: $61,540
Kaen: $20,801
Dorian: $53,600
Jiggles: $32,483
TLoord: $31,708
Barbie Girl: $30,934
Mickey: $68,530
duder: $47,372
AppleMacGuy: $165,261
popeye: $49,956

I'm not in the 4-week report?

Tramp Stamp

01-16-2012, 08:59 AM

I'm not in the 4-week report?

Starting next week. You're at the top of 3 week gain:

rocko: +197.99%
Syntarias: +120.71%
xclusiv: +116.49%
joeycool: +79.35%
Tramp Stamp: +71.31%
qwikster: +69.38%
Amber: +61.47%
Syn: +60.58%
Dorian: +58.02%
stixx: +54.26%
Barbie Girl: +48.51%
Kaen: +46.48%
Jiggles: +44.39%
TLoord: +40.66%
Mickey: +36.81%
duder: +33.04%
AppleMacGuy: +24.10%
ShotInTheDark: +19.14%
popeye: +18.91%

Rarelibra

01-16-2012, 12:49 PM

Starting next week. You're at the top of 3 week gain:

rocko: +197.99%
Syntarias: +120.71%
xclusiv: +116.49%
joeycool: +79.35%
Tramp Stamp: +71.31%
qwikster: +69.38%
Amber: +61.47%
Syn: +60.58%
Dorian: +58.02%
stixx: +54.26%
Barbie Girl: +48.51%
Kaen: +46.48%
Jiggles: +44.39%
TLoord: +40.66%
Mickey: +36.81%
duder: +33.04%
AppleMacGuy: +24.10%
ShotInTheDark: +19.14%
popeye: +18.91%

no one is coming close... hah.

3 weeks ago is when I "woke up" my economy.

Syn

01-16-2012, 12:53 PM

no one is coming close... hah.

3 weeks ago is when I "woke up" my economy.

For now...

No, lol, my economy is taking a break as soon as I hit 200k. I now need to focus on my defensive buildings.

stixx

01-16-2012, 02:11 PM

Dont bother syn, imo investing in your devensive buildings is a waste of time/cash.
I like to rob hoods with massive defense buildings, simplh be ause they dont (seem to) add any defensive value.

Rarelibra

01-16-2012, 02:13 PM

Dont bother syn, imo investing in your devensive buildings is a waste of time/cash.
I like to rob hoods with massive defense buildings, simplh be ause they dont (seem to) add any defensive value.

You are cordially invited to my hood at 8:30pm EDT tonight to tap my g-mens. I have to let them sit and sync.

But... remember... payback is just as fun. ;P

Matthew91188

01-16-2012, 05:02 PM

Yay top 3 first week :) mostly because of my gentlemans clubs but I'm trying lol

Matthew91188

01-16-2012, 05:09 PM

I'm yeababy btw

Stupid 25

Matthew91188

01-16-2012, 05:13 PM

I kno it'd be a lot of work but I'd be interested to see who on that list has buildings only 8 hours plus and not 6 hours or less. As that would tell you how much money people actually collect. Like I know syn has movie theatres which add a lot but I doubt he gets em 24 times a day.

Rarelibra

01-16-2012, 06:14 PM

I have mostly 8/12/24/48s. But because of the "Build XXX Buildings" goals, I have to build some of the 3s and 6s as well. I don't sweat them getting robbed, also because chapels and underboss's seem to be HVTs for some.

Heck, I had a guy rob my level 1 laundromat. LOL.

Dorian Gray

01-17-2012, 01:23 PM

Heck, I had a guy rob my level 1 laundromat. LOL.

Actually, I spent some time robbing just laundromats to slow my leveling at one point. I believe they have the best XP/Respect ratio.

BBz

01-17-2012, 01:26 PM

I love robbing laundromats :)

looker

01-17-2012, 05:19 PM

To Matthew91188:

I agreed, since what is list is the potential $$ per hour, not the realized amount. I have now focused on 12 hr buildings now because I can collect more as I am not on as often. Last time I checked I was collecting about 70% of my potential. But given all the data TS has the only effective way of measuring as a 3rd party.

To TS:
Thanks for your hard work on this. A potential request: a metric I would be curious about in your list would be what level the players are at. :)

Matthew91188

01-17-2012, 05:51 PM

Yea I've have it to where I'd say I'm at 99% collection. I get my 8 hour buildings robbed like once a week if I'm lazy. 12/24/48 haven't been robbed unless I'm syncing

Tramp Stamp

01-17-2012, 09:33 PM

But given all the data TS has the only effective way of measuring as a 3rd party.

Separating "real" income from rated income is logistically impractical for multiple reasons. Even if I were to survey every member's collection habits I wouldn't expect good data because I don't think most players accurately grasp their own playing behaviors. However, I feel a reasonable compromise is the four week gain. It's not possible to inflate $/hr long term with heavy (cash) investment in uncollected assets. If you're letting money sit, you cannot grow. I will continue to break down my economy with the weekly rankings, and other players are free to volunteer information.

A potential request: a metric I would be curious about in your list would be what level the players are at. :)

I started doing this, along with metrics like $/hr/lv, but had to abandon it. Part of the reason I eliminated level is that it doesn't play nearly as big of a factor as some might think. Since Type A buildings are so powerful, a low level camper can easily hang with someone that has a bunch of buildings, as you and duder have amply proved.

Right now, I am "unintentionally" camping because I'm waiting on a resolution on Packer Heights M4 farming. What I've noticed is now that I'm not chasing new construction and land expansions to fit new buildings I can actually afford to upgrade Lofts, in series even. As a result I expect greater economic growth this week than last. The inference is that, after a point, new buildings--"vanilla" Type Bs at least--actually slow you down. Actually, I think if I went back I might conclude that they all slow you down, though I'm not sure I want to go that far.

Tramp Stamp

01-17-2012, 10:18 PM

0.083333: $9,900.00, 26.03%
1: $418.00, 1.01%
3: $9,496.66, 24.97%
6: $2,288.91, 6.02%
8: $1,058.75, 2.78%
12: $10,159.43, 26.72%
18: $953.33, 2.51%
24: $2,751.38, 7.23%
48: $987.71, 2.60%

Total: $38,014.17
Reported: $38,032 (rounding error...)

Tramp Stamp

01-17-2012, 10:42 PM

9 of 64 buildings provide over 68% of the income:

Laundromat (10): $4,950.00
Laundromat (10): $4,950.00
Loft (2): $3,025.00
Movie Theater (4): $2,841.67
Movie Theater (4): $2,841.67
Ice Cream Shop (10): $2,612.50
Ice Cream Shop (10): $2,612.50
Italian Restaurant (6): $1,129.33
Loft (1): $1,008.33

looker

01-18-2012, 01:19 AM

Well all m building were A till last week when I got to lvl 9 and now have 2 electronic stores

here my break down:

0.083333: $5544, 10.54%
1: $0, 0%
3: $8880.66, 16.88%
6: $993.66, 1.89%
8: $1210.00, 2.30%
12: $34463.00, 65.49%
18: $0, 0%
24: $1229.70, 2.34%
48: $302.50, 0.57%

Total: $52623.52
reported: $52649.00 - rounding

But here are my additional calculations:
hrs // possible daily hits // max income
0.08, 288, $133,056
3, 8, $213,136
6, 4, $23,848
8, 3, $64,812
12, 2, $827,112
24, 1, $29,514
48, 0.5, $7,260
$1,298,738

hrs // average daily hits // real income
0.08, 15, $6,930
3, 4, $106,568
6, 3, $17886
8, 1.8, $38,887.20
12, 1.8, $744,400.80
24, 0.9, $26,562.60
48, 0.45, $6,534
$947,768.60

So it looks like im collecting about 73% of my possible income
with 75% of that coming from my lofts and movie theaters.

whocareswhatmynameis

01-18-2012, 08:26 AM

0.083333: $2,904, 2.9%
1: $308, 0.3%
3: $10,234, 10.1%
6: $633, 0.6%
8: $4,439, 4.4%
12: $47,979, 47.2%
24: $33,366, 32.8%
48: $1,721, 1.7%

81.8% of my income is generated from buildings with 12hr or more collection time.

Tramp Stamp

01-18-2012, 09:08 AM

So it looks like im collecting about 73% of my possible income with 75% of that coming from my lofts and movie theaters.

Despite being so bottom-heavy in collection timers I estimate roughly 67% collection efficiency (or, effectively, $25k/hr) based on observed daily income.

Also:

Type A: $30,568.09, 80.41%
Type B: $7,446.08, 19.59%

I'm honestly surprised Type Bs represent that much. However, over half of that is represented by the new-ish gold-equivalent buildings. If these buildings didn't exist, it'd be 89.69%/10.31%. I have never upgraded a Type B building.

Holicaholic

01-18-2012, 09:12 AM

Tramp, two things:

1) What do you do for a living? From everything you have provided on here I would assume some form of analyst or maybe accountant?

2) Your MW name makes me nostalgic..... :)

Monicapj

01-18-2012, 09:13 AM

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duder

01-18-2012, 10:10 AM

Tramp Stamp

01-18-2012, 10:15 AM

1) What do you do for a living? From everything you have provided on here I would assume some form of analyst or maybe accountant?

The analytical skillset certainly comes in handy, but it's tangential to my core responsibilities. It's not my actual title, but I have no problems saying my job is general manager for a small business.

2) Your MW name makes me nostalgic..... :)

I wonder if anyone would have gotten "Billy Blaze".

duder

01-18-2012, 12:01 PM

anyone remember how much in game cash you start with?

I'm thinking about trying to put together some build order models, and I wanted to start with what the early build order looks like.

Tramp Stamp

01-18-2012, 12:17 PM

$1,000, I believe, along with a Laundromat and Pizza Parlor.

whocareswhatmynameis

01-19-2012, 08:40 AM

No surprises, I have a similar set up to looker. 12 hr buildings are a little closer to 75% of my ideal economy and 85% of my estimated actual economy.

As a result, my estimated actual total is about 75% of my ideal. That's probably only because my lofts and mt's are slightly higher level tho, so it's easier to get close to the total.

this exercise (of determining the proportion of income based on building output) is empirical proof that sticking with long term buildings (12hr and above) is a prudent strategy. i think it would be best if this metric is popularized so that when one reports hourly income, the percentage contribution of 12hr+ buildings be included as well to give everybody a sense of what the "real" income is. of course, this is not a perfect measurement. as many things in CC, game style matters- a player who logs in every 3 hours dutifully will overperform on the 12hr+ percentage metric. however, it is my belief that most players at higher levels (100+) will have a "real" income close to income generated from 12hr+ buildings.

Max Power

01-19-2012, 09:06 AM

anyone remember how much in game cash you start with?

I'm thinking about trying to put together some build order models, and I wanted to start with what the early build order looks like.

You start with $3000 and 10 gold bars.

Tramp Stamp

01-19-2012, 10:42 AM

this exercise (of determining the proportion of income based on building output) is empirical proof that sticking with long term buildings (12hr and above) is a prudent strategy.

That's not really debatable, but there are a lot of players who apparently forgot how they got to the point where building an economy around 12+ hour buildings was viable and basically suggest doing it from get-go. 12+ hour buildings are atrocious until one can build Movie Theaters and Lofts and even then it takes weeks of upgrades before they can sustain a healthy economy on their own. Early on there's very little help from anything but Laundromats and 3 hour buildings. If you don't engage these you become one of the people on my rival list who has been playing for months and has an income of $5k/hr, 10-20 percent of that being from the newly introduced Dominican Restaurant.

Tramp Stamp

01-19-2012, 10:44 AM

whocareswhatmynameis

01-19-2012, 11:00 AM

P.S. I hold back elsewhere, but in my thread I will berate anyone who makes an argument saying that all income below 12 hours (or whatever) should be categorically eliminated from the economy comparison. I will not entertain the idea in the least.

i understand your argument for not neglecting income from short output buildings (including LM). i agree that at lower levels, it does not make sense to rely solely on 12hr+ buildings for income. however, i am inclined to support the idea that at higher levels, one's income is derived mostly from 12hr+ buildings (as a result of MT and lofts and also great gold buildings). as i have suggested in my post, the measurement is not without its limitation. for the more active players (who log in more frequently, say every 3 hours), the 12hr+ income metric will clearly underestimate their income. but at the same time, you must concede that 12hr+ buildings are collectable almost 100% of the time while the same cannot be said for short output buildings (LM has the worst collection rate- i'm lucky if i collect 5% of the reported income).

edit: at a minimum, we should be able to filter out income from LMs if we want to report "real" income.

Tramp Stamp

01-19-2012, 11:11 AM

you must concede that 12hr+ buildings are collectable almost 100% of the time while the same cannot be said for short output buildings

I have already conceded this. What I don't concede is that everything less than 12 hours counts as zero, which is a bafflingly popular suggestion.

at a minimum, we should be able to filter out income from LMs if we want to report "real" income.

No.

whocareswhatmynameis

01-19-2012, 11:13 AM

No.

be honest... how frequently do you login to CC in a day?

Tramp Stamp

01-19-2012, 11:19 AM

be honest... how frequently do you login to CC in a day?

Over 9,000 times.

But that's neither here nor there. Attempting to derive "real" income by attempting to micromanage individual collection timers is completely the wrong approach. The correct approach is to survey income gains at regular intervals, preferably setting the interval around the highest counters (48 hours).

whocareswhatmynameis

01-19-2012, 11:26 AM

Over 9,000 times.

But that's neither here nor there. Attempting to derive "real" income by attempting to micromanage individual collection timers is completely the wrong approach. The correct approach is to survey income gains at regular intervals, preferably setting the interval around the highest counters (48 hours).

9000+/day. thank you for your honesty.

Dorian Gray

01-19-2012, 11:34 AM

Over 9000!?!? There's no way that could be right! :)

duder

01-19-2012, 12:25 PM

@whocareswhatmynameis

you realize that if you only look at 12+ hr buildings you ignore the nightclub! Seriously, what are you thinking???

@tramp stamp

great insight on the 3 hour buildings. I think folks sometimes forget what a juggernaught the pizza parlor/souvenir store/italian restaurant combo can be early on.

Of course, if it weren't for the rather obvious correlation between participating in this forum and checking your CC hood, there would probably be a strong cabal of forum contributors posting diatribes touting the pizza parlor over the laundromat in terms of ROI and payout at lower levels due to the unreasonable number of times one would need to collect from a lm to unseat the pizza parlor. Shucks, if my thread had any useful specific advice whatsoever (I'll admit it, it has almost zero directly actionable information) I probably would have devoted paragraphs to that argument (second admission: I was too lazy to give concrete advice that I would then have to defend). However, as this is Tramp Stamp's thread, I will be respectful of his direction to get your lm's to level 10 as soon as reasonably possible. And, given the preposterous number of times he checks his hood, I will begrudingly admit lm's to level 10 makes sense...

whocareswhatmynameis

01-19-2012, 12:36 PM

@whocareswhatmynameis
you realize that if you only look at 12+ hr buildings you ignore the nightclub! Seriously, what are you thinking???

yes. that was an oversight on my part. you are right. nightclub is a killer! one limitation if any (apart from the exuberant price tag: $40M) is its collection time. similar to the pirate tavern (collection time: every 8hrs) which is a pretty good gold buildings, you will find yourself fending off determined robbers. this probably may not apply for your level, but after lvl100+, you definitely need gold weapons to successfully repel all attacks. of course, if you collect your income on time, that is another story. but we know that it is not always possible.

However, as this is Tramp Stamp's thread, I will be respectful of his direction to get your lm's to level 10 as soon as reasonably possible. And, given the preposterous number of times he checks his hood, I will begrudingly admit lm's to level 10 makes sense...

well said.

whocareswhatmynameis

01-19-2012, 12:42 PM

^^ how do you say "spams are getting stupid" in french?

Tramp Stamp

01-19-2012, 12:52 PM

LOL, you guys are brutal today.

Of course, if it weren't for the rather obvious correlation between participating in this forum and checking your CC hood, there would probably be a strong cabal of forum contributors posting diatribes touting the pizza parlor over the laundromat in terms of ROI and payout at lower levels due to the unreasonable number of times one would need to collect from a lm to unseat the pizza parlor.

I beat you to it by recommending Ice Cream Shop push in lieu of or in addition to Laundromats. Pizza Parlor fizzles out by the time the initial ROI-based hood is complete.

However, as this is Tramp Stamp's thread, I will be respectful of his direction to get your lm's to level 10 as soon as reasonably possible. And, given the preposterous number of times he checks his hood, I will begrudingly admit lm's to level 10 makes sense...

I guess I should edit the top post to make this more clear, but the primary reason for pushing Laundromats (or Ice Cream Parlors) is to give your economy something to do while waiting on Movie Theaters and Lofts. After everything else is built, all those other $25-$50 per hour upgrades barely make a dent, and Italian Restaurant is too expensive. Meanwhile the Laundromats will pay for themselves in a few dozen taps and everything else is free thereafter. Yeah, they go obsolete but so do Pawn Shops and Gun Shops.

The "my thread" sentiment refers only to the economy reporting aspect. I'm pretty sure I've demonstrated openness to general counterarguments, though I do aggressively defend my position. What I don't want to see is all the sniping present in other threads and engage in requests to start adjusting everyone's figures. This is time consuming enough without herding 25 people into submitting accurate payout information, surveying their collection habits, then processing all that information.

Honestly I expected to have this argument far sooner but with gold vs. non-gold.

Rarelibra

01-19-2012, 01:09 PM

LOL, you guys are brutal today.

I beat you to it by recommending Ice Cream Shop push in lieu of or in addition to Laundromats. Pizza Parlor fizzles out by the time the initial ROI-based hood is complete.

I guess I should edit the top post to make this more clear, but the primary reason for pushing Laundromats (or Ice Cream Parlors) is to give your economy something to do while waiting on Movie Theaters and Lofts. After everything else is built, all those other $25-$50 per hour upgrades barely make a dent, and Italian Restaurant is too expensive. Meanwhile the Laundromats will pay for themselves in a few dozen taps and everything else is free thereafter. Yeah, they go obsolete but so do Pawn Shops and Gun Shops.

The "my thread" sentiment refers only to the economy reporting aspect. I'm pretty sure I've demonstrated openness to general counterarguments, though I do aggressively defend my position. What I don't want to see is all the sniping present in other threads and engage in requests to start adjusting everyone's figures. This is time consuming enough without herding 25 people into submitting accurate payout information, surveying their collection habits, then processing all that information.

Honestly I expected to have this argument far sooner but with gold vs. non-gold.

I only wish I had visited the forum and researched well BEFORE I even downloaded the game.

I agree with a lot of what is being said, but as you get upwards in levels and depending on the frequency of checking, the 12/24/48 strategy is highly appealing (especially when you get those anchors above level 3, those churches above level 2, etc). Again, the only reason I have any 1s, 3s, or 6s is to complete the "Build xx Buildings" goal. If it turns out that building a missile turret counts (and it should)... I may very well be deleting the 3s and 6s and going for more turrets to count towards more build goals (did you hear that, haroc? what will you rob then? LOL).

Tramp Stamp

01-19-2012, 01:13 PM

as you get upwards in levels and depending on the frequency of checking, the 12/24/48 strategy is highly appealing

I don't disagree with this. Maybe people aren't generally aware that it's not just me and duder who are in the lower levels. Maybe I should take looker's request to post levels into further consideration.

duder

01-19-2012, 01:29 PM

Tramp Stamp

01-19-2012, 01:45 PM

... I don't know what it is about today, I think I have a excess of sass that I need to put out into the world.

Sorry about the earlier posts, I always find it tempting to take a shot at the LM argument.

Take all the shots you want. Believe it or not, I'm not all that interested in pushing Laundromats or any other low collection building, but I do want to quash the "partial collection equals zero collection" sentiment that is so pervasive just because it's horrible math.

I thought my "over 9000" statement would be a generally understood joke but I guess this is the wrong crowd. In reality, my collection habits have declined precipitously over the past few weeks. I can't tell you what it is because I don't have a regimented schedule. Before long I will probably settle into a long schedule along with everyone else.

I ususally am able to control myself, but that damned sass just wants to get out!

Don't bother. Bring the sass if it's warranted. However...

67k per hour and growing!

Really slowly. :p

duder

01-19-2012, 01:48 PM

Really slowly.

nicely done. really nicely done.

Tramp Stamp

01-19-2012, 01:50 PM

whocareswhatmynameis

01-19-2012, 02:00 PM

Okay, to clean up this mess I've made for myself, I will backpedal on one point:

If you voluntarily post your payout schedule, you are fair game for sniping by other players. I will not intervene, and I will ignore the horrible, horrible mathematical arguments that are sure to arise. It will probably lead to good discussion anyway so this was a bad move on my part.

I will not budge on the following point:

I will not invest more time into the economy reporting project (besides possibly including levels). If someone really wants to get into the nitty gritty of everyone's figures, he has to take this over for me.

you invest a lot of time in the project as is. no one expects you to do more (other than perhaps serving as a forum moderator...hint, hint FUNZIO). i agree, publishing payout schedule should be voluntary. it took me ~15 minutes to get mine done (since i keep a good spreadsheet). i don't think this will be realistic for most due to time commitment needed. but i am willing to try if others are.

Dorian Gray

01-19-2012, 02:59 PM

I thought my "over 9000" statement would be a generally understood joke

I assumed you meant to reference this:

Original - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik

Freddie Wong remix - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHqEwIadhO8

I guess not.

Everyone should check out Freddiew, he's got some great vids. Especially if you're a gamer or are into VFX.

One of my favorites -Gun size matters - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3PjLfDR1kU

Matthew91188

01-19-2012, 03:49 PM

Dorian Gray

01-19-2012, 04:01 PM

I agree with a previous post about at higher levels getting the whole 12 hour plus thing. I kept my lvl 10 LMs until around level 80 and sold my 3 hour buildings around 120. My 3 hour buildings only contributed about 10k to my 200k income. I would not sell them if I was around 50 or 60k. So it's all relative and I really think level does matter to what buildings some people decide to keep. But we must also keep in mind that which building to buy or keep is completely opinionated. Their is no right or wrong way to play this game.

I'm at a little under 60 grand for my three hour collection, that's with two Chapels and two lvl 10 Ice Cream shops. I really wonder how long I'm going to be able to stick with my 'expand don't sell' mentality. It looks like it's going to be pretty difficult considering what I see a lot of HL players doing.

Tramp Stamp

01-19-2012, 05:35 PM

I guess not.

Nah, you got it.

Freddie Wong remix - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHqEwIadhO8

The best of the remixes, besides possibly the Abridged version. Don't know why the rating is so low.

One of my favorites -Gun size matters - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3PjLfDR1kU

Missed that one. Hilarious.

I'm at a little under 60 grand for my three hour collection, that's with two Chapels and two lvl 10 Ice Cream shops. I really wonder how long I'm going to be able to stick with my 'expand don't sell' mentality. It looks like it's going to be pretty difficult considering what I see a lot of HL players doing.

I didn't even make it out of the 30s without doing this, and I don't even have gold buildings besides Ice Cream Shops. I just rebuilt Arcades and added Meat Factories for the first time for the hell of it.

Rarelibra

01-19-2012, 07:06 PM

Tramp Stamp - I will have less gain this week, as I just nuked all of my 1s/3s/6s and will focus on 8/12/24/48 and building missiles over the next two weeks or so. Had to get a little mouse off of my back (haroc) - wonder what he will do now that he can't slither in at night and rob my 3s and 6s lol. I can only imagine him all pissed off and disappointed that he can't get me. hah.

Dorian Gray

01-20-2012, 09:39 AM

Nah, you got it.

Right on, I read it as "generally understood as a joke" instead of "a generally understood joke."

I didn't even make it out of the 30s without doing this

The fact I like to waste space for decorating isn't going to help me any.

emcee

01-20-2012, 02:19 PM

12/24/48 hour payout building strategy is probably a more viable option for those that either don't log in often and/or those that have leveled up quite quickly. It seems a big part of people scraping the LM, 1, 3, 6 hour buildings is that they have run out of space in their hood and they happen to be at a sufficient level to get a better payout from lets say a Dominican restaurant. Chances are their economy is not in the best shape and there is the added problem of attacks and/or robberies to deal with not to mention the 10% sting from having to bank. So trying to save up for a million dollar hood expansion may not be an easy haul having to deal with all of the aforementioned scenarios.

What I find painful reading are those who have sold all their high level buildings just because of sync times or to make room for better payout buildings. The amount of time they've invested has effectively been washed away.

Those who are employing some degree of camping should have no reason whatsoever to sell any buildings including laundromats even if they only check in once a week. They should have a sufficient economy to expand their hoods at will.

If there was an operating cost to maintaining buildings then I can see an argument to drop certain low paying/shorter duration payout buildings as there may be a chance to generate negative income. However, money buildings are just that they are money makers. So why sell off a good thing?

stixx

01-20-2012, 02:48 PM

I agree with you, tho i have to admit i sold my lvl 7 whatehouse to
Make room for my taverns. Just started my 15 mln expansion:( had to save a few days to reach that amount of cash, but i hope it pays itself back real fast, planning 2 credit agency 2 hotels and 2 gent clubs in the upcoming weeks....

whocareswhatmynameis

01-20-2012, 05:44 PM

I'm not in the 4-week report?

Starting next week. You're at the top of 3 week gain:

rocko: +197.99%
...

Too bad there won't be a next week for rocko. I suppose it's best to leave when you are on top!

frenda

01-21-2012, 12:26 PM