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View Full Version : Defense Towers! Can Someone Clear My Doubts?



Cheers
12-06-2011, 11:03 AM
Hi people, I know that building defence towers adds to your overall defence that will reflected on your
profile. But however, everytime I fight or rob somebody. If the person happens to have defence towers. His defence shown on the fight screen is not the same as on the defence that has reflected on his/her profile. The defence on the fight screen will show defence excluding the defence tower's defence. So, does the defence from defence towers help me in fending off attackers and robbers since the defence from the towers is not added to the fight screen? Thanks in advanced to those who can clear my doubt.

Ram
12-06-2011, 11:07 AM
Yes it's added

dudeman
12-06-2011, 11:13 AM
It all works out. I haven't quite figured it out yet myself, but I think it does.

The only thing I cannot even begin to comprehend is why my profile stats say one defense score, and in the "protected" goal my progress jumps all over the place!

Jessie74
12-06-2011, 11:27 AM
The only thing I cannot even begin to comprehend is why my profile stats say one defense score, and in the "protected" goal my progress jumps all over the place!

The "protected" score you see is based on your weapons defense; building defense is not included.

nycpizzalover
12-06-2011, 11:35 AM
Hi people, I know that building defence towers adds to your overall defence that will reflected on your profile. But however, everytime I fight or rob somebody. If the person happens to have defence towers. His defence shown on the fight screen is not the same as on the defence that has reflected on his/her profile. The defence on the fight screen will show defence excluding the defence tower's defence. So, does the defence from defence towers help me in fending off attackers and robbers since the defence from the towers is not added to the fight screen? Thanks in advanced to those who can clear my doubt.

Don't rely on just the screen or you will drive yourself nuts. There is also the defense skill points which you don't see which factors into the equation as well as the random factor.

Do the defense buildings help. I can attest that it does. I have built 50 gatling guns and 40 muay thai all at either level 2,3,4 or 5. People who have 20-30K in attack have tried to rob me and failed since my defense is now at 52K. Before I built all of the defense buildings, they were 100% successful in robbing me even though my defense was in the 30K without the buildings.

dudeman
12-06-2011, 12:42 PM
The "protected" score you see is based on your weapons defense; building defense is not included.

Yes, I know, but that's still no reason for stats to fluctuate. There is absolutely no reason why I should see a decrease in stats after I just bought thousands of dollars worth of equipment.

Edit: the profile stats don't change, it's the stats indicating my progress towards completing the goal that increase and decrease pretty much randomly.

Dorian Gray
12-06-2011, 12:57 PM
CC Mark says that def buildings count towards your def in a 'fight'.

The 'tested' fight results screen doesn't appear to indicate this.

What are we to believe???

Matthew91188
12-06-2011, 01:05 PM
I had 8k attack... Attacked someone with 20k defense. Screen showed they only had 5500 in defense on each attack, I won 10 in a row... Explain to me what happened to his 15k in defense buildings?

Syn
12-06-2011, 01:12 PM
Go to a hood that has no buildings at all, just their avatar walking around. Check their defense stats, then attack. Their same defense stats as their profile shows up in the attack info screen. So my guess would be that yes, you use your full equipment defense and half your building when attacked. Vice verse when robbed? Only thing I can add to this discussion.

Edit: Please disregard what I just said. I can't confirm yes or no yet.

G Wiz
12-06-2011, 03:15 PM
The "protected" score you see is based on your weapons defense; building defense is not included.What about the tank mission? Says obtain a mafia defense score of 16000...is that also weapons because my stats are all over the place

Cooz
12-06-2011, 08:15 PM
Defense buildings are only used in defense of robberies, not fights. Plus, your defense from weapons is cut in half on robberies, and buildings aren't used in fights. Because of that, you won't get a true gauge of what someone is using in defense until you fight them.

Along with that, you add in defense points (which you cannot see when fighting/robbing) and the number won't be the same.

Just now, I grabbed some random schmo...His profile lists his defense as 7,286. His defense buildings; a level 5 guard tower (assume he's a tycoon/Goodfella, 50), a lvl 1 gun turret (6) and an abandoned building, I cannot see the level.

Adding those up, and factoring in both tycoon and non-tycoon status, he has a guesstimated range of 58-89 defense building points.

I attacked him: defense points say 7207.
I robbed him: defense points say 7217.

So...on attack, he's 79 points less than what's listed on his profile. On robberies, he's 69 less.

I guess that really doesn't clear anything up, except it's evidence showing defense is higher when you are being robbed. I think there's probably a better example out there, perhaps someone with a few more defense buildings than this slug (who incidentally doesn't appear to be playing the game any longer).

Dorian Gray
12-06-2011, 08:55 PM
Defense buildings are only used in defense of robberies, not fights. Plus, your defense from weapons is cut in half on robberies, and buildings aren't used in fights. Because of that, you won't get a true gauge of what someone is using in defense until you fight them.



This is such a frustrating issue. Tha game tells us one thing and CC Mark tells us another. And it's not like Mark has been ambiguous about it. He has very clearly stated that def buildings count in 'fights'. The only reason I'm so stuck on what Mark said is because if this is true- "you won't get a true gauge of what someone is using in defense until you fight them"- then that's just dumb! Now I have to try and gauge what someone's total building defense is and then subtract that from their total mafia defense every time I go to fight someone and want to decide if that's a wise decision?? Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Peacock
12-06-2011, 09:27 PM
Defense buildings are only used in defense of robberies, not fights. Plus, your defense from weapons is cut in half on robberies, and buildings aren't used in fights.

Mark says def bldgs counts in both fights and robberies. U mentioned that items def are reduced in half during robberies. That is also wrong. Mark says only a portion and we dun know how much is that. U can't assume its half.

Lookie look

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?12048-How-Important-is-the-Defense-Stat-vs.-Defense-from-Buildings-Items-(-2-questions)&p=54137#post54137

dudeman
12-06-2011, 10:32 PM
Now I have to try and gauge what someone's total building defense is and then subtract that from their total mafia defense every time I go to fight someone and want to decide if that's a wise decision?? Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Yeah, genius idea. I guess that could explain why I get attacked and then have angry messages on my wall for winning with so few defense buildings. I have more than you can see, and you can only see the level on two of them due to space constraints, and seeing the time, that issue should be resolved now

Amber_
12-07-2011, 09:54 AM
I only have a few defense buildings bcs they're pretty useless... Cooz is right, they only count in robberies. Why would them help in attacking? If you go to someones hood and attack, you dont really have your defense buildings with you right?

Dorian Gray
12-07-2011, 10:19 AM
I only have a few defense buildings bcs they're pretty useless... Cooz is right, they only count in robberies. Why would them help in attacking? If you go to someones hood and attack, you dont really have your defense buildings with you right?


We're talking about them counting in defense of a PvP attack from another player visiting your hood.

Ghost3
12-07-2011, 10:29 AM
If I'm not mistaken I ran into this earlier, the profile shows all your mob equipped but the actual score when defending is based on what you bring, basically if you have more mafia members then what u bring to battle 5x your lvl you'll show one score for profile and a diff score when defending

Anubis
12-07-2011, 10:37 AM
Here is a situation that I am encoutering all the time as the two of us are close rivals. I'll just round the scores to nearest 100. This is good because my Rival has 0 Building defence. He has spent a lot of money on gold equipment and has 100 Turbo Vipers and more.

My Attack : 15200
My Mafia Defence: 16500
My Building Defence: 4300

His Mafia Attack: 18300
His Mafia (Total) Defence: 18200


The situation is he robs me without ever failing. When he attacks me, he sometimes fails (he likes to attack me for his giggles).

When I rob him, I probably get a 70% success rate. (I never tried whacking him)

My total defence is ~3K more than his attack, his total defence (all mafia) is ~3K more than my attack.


If you followed this, the only conclusion I can draw is that building defence does not fend off robbers (if it does plays a very tiny part). If my building defence plays no part in his robberies that would explain his 100% success rate this last week. If my building defence adds to my whacking defence it would show why he fails at attacking - exact win/loss unknown as its from news.

Im pretty sure I won't spend money on a defence building again as the main aim of them for me was to fend off robbers. His all Mafia defence is much more effective then my building defence.

Peacock
12-07-2011, 10:53 AM
Here is a situation that I am encoutering all the time as the two of us are close rivals. I'll just round the scores to nearest 100. This is good because my Rival has 0 Building defence. He has spent a lot of money on gold equipment and has 100 Turbo Vipers and more.

My Attack : 15200
My Mafia Defence: 16500
My Building Defence: 4300

His Mafia Attack: 18300
His Mafia (Total) Defence: 18200


The situation is he robs me without ever failing. When he attacks me, he sometimes fails (he likes to attack me for his giggles).

When I rob him, I probably get a 70% success rate. (I never tried whacking him)

My total defence is ~3K more than his attack, his total defence (all mafia) is ~3K more than my attack.


If you followed this, the only conclusion I can draw is that building defence does not fend off robbers (if it does plays a very tiny part). If my building defence plays no part in his robberies that would explain his 100% success rate this last week. If my building defence adds to my whacking defence it would show why he fails at attacking - exact win/loss unknown as its from news.

Im pretty sure I won't spend money on a defence building again as the main aim of them for me was to fend off robbers. His all Mafia defence is much more effective then my building defence.

But Mark says def buildings has the greatest effect to repel robberies.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?12108-How-defense-works&p=54641#post54641

whocareswhatmynameis
12-07-2011, 11:55 AM
But Mark says def buildings has the greatest effect to repel robberies.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?12108-How-defense-works&p=54641#post54641

i have posted previously with similar sentiments. it appears that the experience of most people has been contrary to what CC Mark has stated emphatically. i personally am on the fence. i want to believe CC Mark but at the same time have great deference to several seasoned players who are sharing their experiences regarding defense buildings. i don't seem to decide if they are useful or not. i had initially planned to construct bodyguard agencies in anticipation of joining the big league, but i can't help but feel the money is better spent on money buildings. i am currently in holding pattern till there is a clear consensus.

Cooz
12-07-2011, 11:59 AM
But Mark says def buildings has the greatest effect to repel robberies.

http://www.funzio.com/forum/showthread.php?12108-How-defense-works&p=54641#post54641

What exactly is your point? What does "greatest effect" mean? In the sample I posted earlier, there was a 10 point difference in favor of his robbery defense, and he had 80-some defensive points in buildings.

Take a look at Anubis's example:
Rival wins all robbery attempts.
Rival does not win all fight attempts.
Anubis has 4300 defense points in buildings.

If Rival wins all robbery attempts, but does not win all fight attempts, and defense buildings are the only variable (or at least that we believe), it doesn't matter what "Mark" said, the conclusion is defense buildings favor fending off fights, not robberies.

And it continues getting more confusing...

Dorian Gray
12-07-2011, 01:04 PM
Defense buildings are only used in defense of robberies, not fights.


the conclusion is defense buildings favor fending off fights, not robberies.

Are you trying to make my brain implode lol

G Wiz
12-07-2011, 02:09 PM
Do not forget the several "behind the scene" server updates. What Mark said then might have been accurate, but now not so much.

Dorian Gray
12-07-2011, 02:37 PM
Do not forget the several "behind the scene" server updates. What Mark said then might have been accurate, but now not so much.

Then he really should be updating that info for us in an 'updates' thread or something like that. It's not right to change the game mechanics and then leave everyone in the dark about what changes have been made. And don't give me this "The mystery of it is all part of the game" BS. There should be a thread that notifies us ahead of time what changes will occur and when. Look, this is not some crazy idea, this is common practice on many gaming forums.

Look, I'm just tired of the guessing/debating game. This kind of stuff could easily be cleared up by Funzio, but I'm sure they're getting a good laugh at all of us trying to figure out what the hell they're doing behind the scenes.

Cooz
12-07-2011, 03:57 PM
Are you trying to make my brain implode lol

lol Yes, sorry, to be honest, that first draft was re-written multiple times. I meant to begin with "the common understanding is defense buildings are only used in defense of robberies..."

After I checked it, it seems more likely they fend off fights, but that goes against everything we "know."

khung003
12-07-2011, 04:19 PM
I just sample some guys, defense building does not count for PvP.

I attacked some guys continuously day by day on farming respect points, rarely lose a fight, and the fighting screen always show his/her defense < my attack points 2000 - 3000 points.

But recently I check their hoods and what shocked me is their total defense points > my total attack point about 7000 - 12000 points, credit to those gold defense buildings.

If their defense buildings count to PvP, I should lose more often when attack them, but that does not happen (as they thought), 95% of the fight I'm the winner. Don't count on defense buildings when you're attacked.

(Blind fighting may give you more benefit than awareness fighting, just fight anyone in the rival list, you might win those who you do not dare to attack if you visit their hoods)

Cooz
12-07-2011, 04:32 PM
(Blind fighting may give you more benefit than awareness fighting, just fight anyone in the rival list, you might win those who you do not dare to attack if you visit their hoods)

Not a terrible strategy...only problem is you may piss off the wrong guy, and he keeps "revenging" you from his news reel.
I don't do it cuz the thousands of fights needed to clear all the streak goals programmed me to check the hood first. I've been conditioned.

Dorian Gray
12-07-2011, 04:35 PM
Just for the hell of it look at it like this:

If defense buildings don't count in defending an attack

and

Equipment defense is halved/reduced in defending a robbery

then

The total mafia defense # is POINTLESS

Anubis
12-07-2011, 04:37 PM
I would really like Mark to tune in here.

The example I used is good because my Rival only has Mafia defence.

I've had this rival for a week now, he hasn't lost a robbery on me, even though my defence is 3K more than his attack. Then I lose around 1/3 or 1/4 of my robberies on him and his defence is mafia defence only. The difference in total att/def ratio is the same for both of us.

I probably need to start righting down some rob results.

The other thing that other people might be able to relate to, is the inconsistency when fighting rivals. Its much more evident around level 80-100, when you see that your 2K? above the rivals defence the fight result shows - then you happen to lose.

Maybe it has something to do with base stats? but I would really like Mark to give a definitive answer on exactly what building defence does. I cannot simply dismiss the evidence I gathered in the last week. We are both same level if that matters.

Cooz
12-07-2011, 04:40 PM
Just for the hell of it look at it like this:

If defense buildings don't count in defending an attack

and

Equipment defense is halved/reduced in defending a robbery

then

The total mafia defense # is POINTLESS

There are many who agree with you. The best way I've heard it describe is a combination of two points: What you get out of defense buildings do not stop the baddest dudes around anyway so why put a permanent tax on your hood? (even if you're 15k, 20k will win out almost 100 percent of the time. Any idea how much space, time and money you'll have to put in to 5k worth of defense building points? Not even gonna bother figuring that out)

You can only be robbed a certain percentage of each building, and if your big money buildings always pay out at times you can collect, no defense can do anything significant and continuous to you.

There's only so much stamina they can use anyway. Odds are in your favor.

Anubis
12-07-2011, 04:41 PM
Just for the hell of it look at it like this:

If defense buildings don't count in defending an attack

and

Equipment defense is halved/reduced in defending a robbery

then

The total mafia defense # is POINTLESS

Both of those might be incorrect, and unless Mark makes it clear, we need to test this.

My arguement:
Im proposing Defence buildings only add to mafia defence... when being attacked.
Im also proposing Defence buildings do not help defending against robberies.

Cooz
12-07-2011, 04:42 PM
Maybe it has something to do with base stats? but I would really like Mark to give a definitive answer on exactly what building defence does. I cannot simply dismiss the evidence I gathered in the last week. We are both same level if that matters.

I'd bet it's a multiplier, not an incremental gain. The more of it you have, the more your numbers increase exponentially. Since, in your example, you don't know how many defense skill points he has, we can't really solve for x here.

Anubis
12-07-2011, 04:46 PM
I'd bet it's a multiplier, not an incremental gain. The more of it you have, the more your numbers increase exponentially. Since, in your example, you don't know how many defense skill points he has, we can't really solve for x here.

Thats the only reasonable reason I can agree with. For the purpose though, Im lvl 97 and have 66att skill and 52def skill.

khung003
12-07-2011, 05:07 PM
About the multipliers, still vague. My attack skill point is 150+ , I doubt if someone have 150+ defense skill points. I can't explain why I lost to some people have 2000 defense points < my attack points.

I can't even explain why I still lose many fights. why? why? why?

Dorian Gray
12-07-2011, 05:09 PM
I'd bet it's a multiplier, not an incremental gain. The more of it you have, the more your numbers increase exponentially. Since, in your example, you don't know how many defense skill points he has, we can't really solve for x here.

This is the crux of the matter here. It seems that without CC Mark (or someone from Funzio) enlightening us we will forever be in the dark on this. Add to this the fact that they are always tweaking how the game works in the backround and we're really screwed. lol Oh well, like the Dread Pirate Roberts says... "Get used to disappointment"

Cooz
12-07-2011, 05:19 PM
This is the crux of the matter here. It seems that without CC Mark (or someone from Funzio) enlightening us we will forever be in the dark on this. Add to this the fact that they are always tweaking how the game works in the backround and we're really screwed. lol Oh well, like the Dread Pirate Roberts says... "Get used to disappointment"

Can you type in a larger font? It's so dark in here, it's hard to read...:D

Dorian Gray
12-07-2011, 05:30 PM
Can you type in a larger font? It's so dark in here, it's hard to read...:D

This better ? :)

Dorian Gray
12-07-2011, 05:42 PM
ignore this post lol