Kompu Gacha?

[Dipstik]

So about this new "scratcher" event... collect all the scratcher prizes during the month of December and win a super-fabulous prize! The lawyer side of me is curious... isn't that pretty much the definition of Kompu Gacha, which was supposedly made illegal in Japan. Has something changed or is this event only available in other countries? Am I missing something here?

[sister morphine]

The similar event for the crate items too (perhaps more so as you have to pay to play that one).

Maybe the game isn't available in Japan; or not in the same form we know it. Can't say I've ever encountered a Japanese player.

[crime cow]

I've consulted with my pretend lawyer side also and this is Kompu Gacha. If you live in Japan you could file a suit. Otherwise this doesn't affect you and Gree isn't going to comment on this, so we'll go ahead and put a lid on this thread. Thanks!

[Dipstik]

I've consulted with my pretend lawyer side also and this is Kompu Gacha. If you live in Japan you could file a suit. Otherwise this doesn't affect you and Gree isn't going to comment on this, so we'll go ahead and put a lid on this thread. Thanks!

Quoted before you realize how stupid this looks and decide to edit it.

[Evan1000]

So Japan bans Kompu Gacha, and GREE releases two new goal chains that are exactly this? Nice.

I found an article that explains what Kompu Gacha is and why it was banned. Funny GREE's name was mentioned there multiple times.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BetableBlog/20120525/171124/Why_quotKompu_Gachaquot_Was_Banned.php

[crime cow]

Quoted before you realize how stupid this looks and decide to edit it.

Do you live in Colorado, Oregon, Washington or Alaska? That would explain a lot.

[crime cow]

So Japan bans Kompu Gacha, and GREE releases two new goal chains that are exactly this? Nice.

I found an article that explains what Kompu Gacha is and why it was banned. Funny GREE's name was mentioned there multiple times.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BetableBlog/20120525/171124/Why_quotKompu_Gachaquot_Was_Banned.php

There are some technical ways that social gaming companies can and are using to get around the ban, but I don't see how this applies here. One of the key ways is that the customer should be able to calculate the amount of money necessary to complete the task ahead of time. Perhaps there is more information out there somewhere that does make this information available to those that are interested, but I didn't see enough in my quick scan of the goals or the store that would make these calculations possible. None of the other loopholes appears to apply either, but I've only been pretending to be a lawyer for a couple of hours, so I could have missed something...

[Dipstik]

There are some technical ways that social gaming companies can and are using to get around the ban, but I don't see how this applies here. One of the key ways is that the customer should be able to calculate the amount of money necessary to complete the task ahead of time. Perhaps there is more information out there somewhere that does make this information available to those that are interested, but I didn't see enough in my quick scan of the goals or the store that would make these calculations possible. None of the other loopholes appears to apply either, but I've only been pretending to be a lawyer for a couple of hours, so I could have missed something...


I've consulted with my pretend lawyer side also and this is Kompu Gacha. If you live in Japan you could file a suit. Otherwise this doesn't affect you and Gree isn't going to comment on this, so we'll go ahead and put a lid on this thread. Thanks!

Mandatory extras.

[Idiosyncrasy]

Kompu gacha has been gree's business model the whole time. You knew this, right?

[Gungho]

It's not a game anymore with all the new ways to waste gold (read money), it's an online casino now.

[Dipstik]

Kompu gacha has been gree's business model the whole time. You knew this, right?

I never paid much attention. I remember thinking that the "collect 8" box event prizes should have been a problem, but I never looked into it much. I just noticed the scratcher "event" and thought "wtf?"

I'm genuinely curious if these events are a problem legally in Japan. I don't have any personal issue with them... if people want to blow their money, let them.

[crime cow]

I don't really have anything else to add, I just want to post again to see if it will get added to the copy and paste post above. Its nice being so well thought of that my posts are being 'shared.'

[Red BD]

I stink at math, so my cipherin' might be off, but at $2.60 a scratcher (which I was getting tempted to start paying to get that "legal power"), I for one am glad Dippy still uses his legal powers for good, at least occasionally.

[ghetto69143]

So Japan bans Kompu Gacha, and GREE releases two new goal chains that are exactly this? Nice.

I found an article that explains what Kompu Gacha is and why it was banned. Funny GREE's name was mentioned there multiple times.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BetableBlog/20120525/171124/Why_quotKompu_Gachaquot_Was_Banned.php


just to expound a little further on your point, Evan.

http://www.serkantoto.com/2012/11/01/kompu-gacha-package-box-gacha/

Kompu gacha was a perversion of this concept, as it required users to win several (specified) items first in order to win a big prize (usually an item that was impossible to obtain otherwise) at the end. In other words, gacha players were required to have several “mini wins” in order to complete a set of items before getting the “jackpot”.

as well as to clarify a little further for Crime Cow

its safe to assume the scheme is being applied.
(as a free player) I dont usually get any of the last 3 items needed to finish the box event.
and No, I am not entitled to complete the set for that grand prize because I play for free

[Red BD]

.... to clarify a little further for Crime Cow

its safe to assume the scheme is being applied.
(as a free player) I dont usually get any of the last 3 items needed to finish the box event.
and No, I am not entitled to complete the set for that grand prize because I play for free

Yes, Honorable Ghetto Man, but that more Gacha (gotcha?) then Konpu Gacha. Next big plize, Fugu. Hahahaha.

[Winnson]

Ya pays yer money and ya takes your chances!
-Typical Carnival Barker

Good luck on the box event! Hope you get everything for the indy! You're so close!
-Gree

[LüK€¥]

Wow, GREE, breaking the law? I am truly shocked, I know they are many things, but law breaking wasn't one of them.

I don't wish to associate myself with law breakers, I am truly heart broken ��. I am truly emotional now and may curl in a ball with deep depression for the rest of my life...

[Winnson]

I think they should be able to do what they want with their game.

If you get sucked in, that's on you. That just means they're doing a good job.

Anyone currently being sucked in? No?

Well then, what does that tell you?

[Dipstik]

Yeah, I think it's a stupid law, but I'm not Japanese. I'm more curious about how the obvious contradiction has been resolved. Was the law repealed? Is it just not enforced? Does Gree not offer services in Japan anymore? Do they pay fines every once in a while (read "bribes") to keep the government off their backs while they continue doing business? Is there litigation in the works?

edit: Is there some subtle reason that I'm missing why these events don't meet the definition of the law and it doesn't apply?

[Winnson]

I honestly don't think this qualifies as Kompu Gacha, because it's just tapping for cases. It's pure chance.

As I understand it, Kompu Gacha is you have several hoops to jump through to get that really awesome item, and one or more of those steps relies on chance, but at first doesn't seem that way.

Cases are purely chance, and not something you can try to predict ahead of time.

Either way, what does it matter? If you want to smack cases until you're blue in the face for the Indy, then go for it.

I'll tap when it's up thanks.

[crime cow]

Again, just to clarify, kompu gacha is only illegal in Japan, so they obviously have changed the event there or they don't offer it there. Offering a prize for a collection is not illegal as I understand (although the other pretend lawyer in this thread has been practicing longer so maybe his pretend law library has more info). It becomes Kompu Gacha when you have to collect super rare prizes in order get an extremely powerful item. There were people in Japan that spent millions (probably in Japenese currency) to get this reward. As I said in another post, if Gree discloses the odds of getting the items and they are actually awarded according to those odds, this is no longer illegal. For example, if the rarest prize has a 1% drop rate, but it's guaranteed to drop one out of a hundred times, then someone could easily sit down (or hang upside down in an inverted chair) and figure out the maximum amount of money they would have to spend in order to receive the prize. This removes the gambling aspect, at least in the eyes of the Japenese government. If there is someone on these forums from Japan they could clarify for you, otherwise you may have to start looking for Japenese pen pals.

[Winnson]

Watashewa NiHongoGa, skoshi, Wakademas.

[Dipstik]

Again, just to clarify, kompu gacha is only illegal in Japan, so they obviously have changed the event there or they don't offer it there. Offering a prize for a collection is not illegal as I understand (although the other pretend lawyer in this thread has been practicing longer so maybe his pretend law library has more info). It becomes Kompu Gacha when you have to collect super rare prizes in order get an extremely powerful item. There were people in Japan that spent millions (probably in Japenese currency) to get this reward. As I said in another post, if Gree discloses the odds of getting the items and they are actually awarded according to those odds, this is no longer illegal. For example, if the rarest prize has a 1% drop rate, but it's guaranteed to drop one out of a hundred times, then someone could easily sit down (or hang upside down in an inverted chair) and figure out the maximum amount of money they would have to spend in order to receive the prize. This removes the gambling aspect, at least in the eyes of the Japenese government. If there is someone on these forums from Japan they could clarify for you, otherwise you may have to start looking for Japenese pen pals.

You keep replying... I don't know why.

[crime cow]

You keep replying... I don't know why.

This surprises no one.

[montecore]

So about this new "scratcher" event... collect all the scratcher prizes during the month of December and win a super-fabulous prize! The lawyer side of me is curious... isn't that pretty much the definition of Kompu Gacha, which was supposedly made illegal in Japan. Has something changed or is this event only available in other countries? Am I missing something here?

My understanding is that the entire game is illegal in Japan due to Kompu Gacha.

[Dipstik]

Thanks, monty. Good to see you again.

[Idiosyncrasy]

I'm not sure if it applies to kompu gacha per se, but one way around gambling laws is the use of virtual currency.

If you go into a casino, you're exchanging money for the experience of risk with the chance of random rewards. Sure, you get chips, but all chip values are equal and representative of real currency.

In gree games, and in most pay to win / micro transaction games, you pay for a level of virtual currency. And not all currency is equal. You can buy in at different rates, and you can even get the virtual currency for "free" (right, Evan?). How you spend this virtual currency is up to you. And it's spent on an experience (that you don't and never will own) instead of on a risk for real gain (read: more than pixels). You can spend your gold on experiences with pre-determined and definitive outcomes, such as inventory items and counter resets, or you can enter the kompa gacha games.

So back to what I was saying, that's likely how they get around gambling laws, but it appears kompu gacha applies to the mechanics of the game itself, regardless of currency.

I guess they just can't pls$ where they live (aka rip off people where they're headquartered).

[Idiosyncrasy]

Here's an interesting article, with Gree's official statement on kompu gacha.

http://www.serkantoto.com/2012/05/09/kompu-gacha-dena-gree-history/

They're on the council, after all.

[Dipstik]

Here's an interesting article, with Gree's official statement on kompu gacha.

http://www.serkantoto.com/2012/05/09/kompu-gacha-dena-gree-history/

They're on the council, after all.

Good article. So has something changed? Because it's back.

[crime cow]

Good article. So has something changed? Because it's back.

Are you really this dense?? You talk about my posts, but yours really have no point. The link was for a Tokyo based consultancy and the announcement only applied to Japan. There are very easy and legal steps they can take to get around this law in Japan, but if Monty is correct, they don't offer these games there. This practice is legal everywhere else.

Gree is not going to reply and if anyone else knew they would have already replied.

[Red BD]

Crime Cow, why are your panties in such a bunch?
Your theory is flawed. One can play this game in Tokyo.
Interesting legal mumbojumbo with this tech. Maybe you should check out your pretend law school's library and peruse some law review articles on the subject or something.

[crime cow]

Crime Cow, why are your panties in such a bunch?
Your theory is flawed. One can play this game in Tokyo.
Interesting legal mumbojumbo with this tech. Maybe you should check out your pretend law school's library and peruse some law review articles on the subject or something.

My panties aren't in a bunch, but the OP likes to make personal attacks on other posters, including me, continuously, when his own posts are generally vapid and without any logic whatsoever. How is my theory flawed? I've explained a couple times how Gree and other gaming companies are getting around the law in Japan. Since I don't live there, I have no idea of this applies to Crime City. Monty said the game is not available on Japan. My last post was that until someone from Japan weighs in, we'll never know. Where am I wrong?

[Dat Guy]

7626


Looks a little familiar.

[Red BD]

My panties aren't in a bunch, but the OP likes to make personal attacks on other posters, including me, continuously, when his own posts are generally vapid and without any logic whatsoever. How is my theory flawed? I've explained a couple times how Gree and other gaming companies are getting around the law in Japan. Since I don't live there, I have no idea of this applies to Crime City. Monty said the game is not available on Japan. My last post was that until someone from Japan weighs in, we'll never know. Where am I wrong?


Truth is your entire argument consists of saying:
a. Only Japan has declared Kampu Gotcha illegal, so
b. Since we are not in Japan, the Thread is irrelevant.

You also claim you explain the manner in which Gree "gets around it" in Japan, although frankly IMHO none of your "explanations" made the slightest bit of sense and you then rely on "monte's" "understanding" that CC is not offered in Japan. WELL I'VE PLAYED IT IN TOKYO. Bought gold in Tokyo. What's your definition of "offered"?

Me, I'm glad Dippy raised this issue- "Hey folks! Gree's trying to serve us something which at least one nation seems to have declared illegal!" All players need to know if they may be subject to a sleazy scheme. You seem to object.

Your response: "since we aren't Japanese this discussion should be terminated!"

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm,...........

[Idiosyncrasy]

Do a quick search for "kompu gacha" in this forum and you'll see this topic has been discussed thoroughly with the same points that have been mentioned here. I would link to several points that have been made previously, but I'll just link to this for now:

http://forums.gree.net/search.php?searchid=6491018

The point is, nothing will ever change. Only you can change. Be the change you want to see.

[Dipstik]

Are you really this dense?? You talk about my posts, but yours really have no point. The link was for a Tokyo based consultancy and the announcement only applied to Japan. There are very easy and legal steps they can take to get around this law in Japan, but if Monty is correct, they don't offer these games there. This practice is legal everywhere else.

Gree is not going to reply and if anyone else knew they would have already replied.

The change I was referring to was GREE saying it was stopping the practice, but thanks again for arguing with me in a thread you claim is worthless...

[crime cow]

The change I was referring to was GREE saying it was stopping the practice, but thanks again for arguing with me in a thread you claim is worthless...

Yes, they said they were stopping the practice. In Japan. It doesn't specifically spell that out in the article, so you have to dig a little. You're welcome.