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I Love Money
07-23-2015, 10:42 AM
Should they be required to get one? I feel like not having an avy is a sign of emptiness in oneself.

Ant venom
07-23-2015, 10:51 AM
It's better not having one than having a racist and offensive one along with the username, just like you.

TxTireMan
07-23-2015, 11:30 AM
It's better not having one than having a racist and offensive one along with the username, just like you.

Now class if you look here, we have an example of what some people refer to as "butthurt" ....its whats wrong with America today. Come now, let's go point and laugh at the guy in the Prius again

Brendan
07-23-2015, 01:05 PM
Should they be required to get one? I feel like not having an avy is a sign of emptiness in oneself.

Anyone without an avatar is a feckin' wanker, afraid to show even their virtual face.

TxTireMan
07-23-2015, 01:37 PM
i've never had one....until today ha

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 01:41 PM
i've never had one....until today ha

and you chose the wrong one, nowadays that flag is considered offensive, regardless of roots and whatnot. same way that the swastika used to be a good symbol, but it got corrupted by nazis. just the fact that this is the flag the KKK uses, i find it offensive to use it, as you associate yourself with the KKK!!!

Oasis
07-23-2015, 01:45 PM
just uploaded one!

Vile Lynn
07-23-2015, 01:47 PM
I never knew that was an offensive flag until... I guess he got his race war afterall.

Oasis
07-23-2015, 01:50 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/06/confederate-flag-prom-photo_n_7219802.html

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 01:52 PM
as i said before, just the fact that the KKK has adopted it as its symbol, should make others who are not racist to want to distance themselves from it. basically if the south had won, african americans might still be slaves( it was, after all one of dividing points between north and south.) North wanted and passed laws to free slaves, south seceded and kept slavery on. slaves were forced to fight in the war. so yes it is a symbol of slavery and it belongs in a museum.

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 01:57 PM
lets not forget about after the war, where white supremacist groups using the flag used to torture and kill african americans in rebellion to the fact that they were freed, and if anything it is a symbol of TREASON against the United states government!!!

Vile Lynn
07-23-2015, 02:06 PM
Anyways... If anybody wants an avatar:
http://forums.gree.net/showthread.php?101399-Avatars!

Dipstik
07-23-2015, 02:20 PM
I thought the Dukes of hazard adopted it as their symbol.

Brendan
07-23-2015, 02:34 PM
lets not forget about after the war, where white supremacist groups using the flag used to torture and kill african americans in rebellion to the fact that they were freed, and if anything it is a symbol of TREASON against the United states government!!!

I'm with you, it's what it represents now, which is basically the Old South. And that means slavery and ****e.

BTW, Dipppy or Red will probably go crazy, but the British stopped the slave trade in 1808 and slavery outright in 1834. That's one of the reasons black people flocked to the British cause in the war of treachery, they fought on the British side, they got freedom. They went to Canada first but many went on to found Sierra Leone.

TxTireMan
07-23-2015, 02:34 PM
Dont say Dukes of Hazard, its racist now

Brendan
07-23-2015, 02:36 PM
Dont say Dukes of Hazard, its racist now

No, just a rubbish show.

Killa Cali
07-23-2015, 02:39 PM
lets not forget about after the war, where white supremacist groups using the flag used to torture and kill african americans in rebellion to the fact that they were freed, and if anything it is a symbol of TREASON against the United states government!!!

Quoted for truth!

TxTireMan
07-23-2015, 02:39 PM
and you chose the wrong one, nowadays that flag is considered offensive, regardless of roots and whatnot. same way that the swastika used to be a good symbol, but it got corrupted by nazis. just the fact that this is the flag the KKK uses, i find it offensive to use it, as you associate yourself with the KKK!!!

In that case the US flag should be in the same category. USA had slaves, oppressed woman for years, had Japanese concentration camps during WW....shall i continue?

TxTireMan
07-23-2015, 02:40 PM
Quoted for truth!

So if I went and murdered a bunch of asians while flying the American flag, it would then be a symbol of hate?

Max Power
07-23-2015, 02:54 PM
I'm with you, it's what it represents now, which is basically the Old South. And that means slavery and ****e.

BTW, Dipppy or Red will probably go crazy, but the British stopped the slave trade in 1808 and slavery outright in 1834. That's one of the reasons black people flocked to the British cause in the war of treachery, they fought on the British side, they got freedom. They went to Canada first but many went on to found Sierra Leone.

While the Brits love to take the high road on eliminating slavery before the colonists, the road they were taking wasn't that high, considering they were active in taking over entire countries as colonies for the century that followed. Not very altruistic if you ask me.

"Who needs slaves? We'll just take India!"

TMI
07-23-2015, 03:29 PM
lets not forget about after the war, where white supremacist groups using the flag used to torture and kill african americans in rebellion to the fact that they were freed, and if anything it is a symbol of TREASON against the United states government!!!

You say that like it's a bad thing

When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws will be free.

#EdwardSnowdenEnemyoftheStateHeroForTheRestofUs

crime cow
07-23-2015, 03:46 PM
Fine. I added an avatar so that I wouldn't offend anyone by not having one...

TMI
07-23-2015, 03:49 PM
Fine. I added an avatar so that I wouldn't offend anyone by not having one...

I'm colourblind and I'm offended by your insensitivity for my medical condition.

Brendan
07-23-2015, 03:51 PM
While the Brits love to take the high road on eliminating slavery before the colonists, the road they were taking wasn't that high, considering they were active in taking over entire countries as colonies for the century that followed. Not very altruistic if you ask me.

"Who needs slaves? We'll just take India!"


Of course, America had no colonies. Just ask the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Cuba, all of Mexico that you stole, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas etc. Bunch of hypocrites.

Brendan
07-23-2015, 03:53 PM
And why in America are Hispanics treated as a different race? In Europe the Spanish are the same as Italians.

Red BD
07-23-2015, 03:54 PM
I never knew that was an offensive flag until... I guess he got his race war afterall.

Well put......

Red BD
07-23-2015, 04:06 PM
And why in America are Hispanics treated as a different race? In Europe the Spanish are the same as Italians.

Probably because in the U.S. MOST " Hispanics" are of South or Central American origin, and those folks are of mixed (Spanish and Native American). blood lines.

See, I didn't go crazy... Of course I was too busy gagging from the stench.

Let's be frank, however-- all the North, Britain or anyone else had to do to really harm slavery was to NOT BUY COTTON. I'm not defending the institution, but all this "the war was fought to free the poor black folks" is simply a latter day scam, a sort of Son of "I'm not racist! Why some of my best friends are Black."

Evan1000
07-23-2015, 04:31 PM
We turning this into the fourth of July thread again? Cool!

Don't know where to start. The confederate flag symbolizes a dark time in America's history where a bunch of southern states left and created the confederate states of America (there were multiple reasons why they did so, but the biggest one of course was slavery) and that was their flag, and then the north fought them to stay in what would become the worst war in American history. Yes the flag should be banned. Someone beat me to the swastika reference, but you can't go waving a Nazi flag around in Germany, can you?

The American flag symbolizes freedom, as it was created when we were the first country to ever gain independence from another (correct me if I'm wrong, don't know if we were the first). Japanese internment and manifest destiny were of course times in our history where we messed up, but our flag has absolutely nothing to do with it and doesn't symbolize those events in any way.

And finally, yes, of course America imperialized.. guess who we learned it from?

Dat Guy
07-23-2015, 04:50 PM
I have a confession to make. I am not really Grand Master Bushido Brown. I just use his picture to catfish people.

Dipstik
07-23-2015, 04:56 PM
And why in America are Hispanics treated as a different race? In Europe the Spanish are the same as Italians.

Because they insist on it. Can't be a proper minority unless you draw a category of separation around yourself.

Dat Guy
07-23-2015, 05:10 PM
Because they insist on it. Can't be a proper minority unless you draw a category of separation around yourself.

.....you will be assimilated.......



(I agree with you one hundred percent Dippy)

MK Loves You
07-23-2015, 06:38 PM
Don't believe everything you read in a textbook in high school. If you did some research you would know that a lot of stuff they teach is wrong. For example: George Washington was NOT the first American president, there was 7 other presidents before him (one of them was John Hancock). And if you did more research you would know the North actually had MORE slaves than the south. A symbol (or flag) represents whatever you want it to represent. Most southerners see the confederate flag as a symbol of rebellion and/or Dixie (the southern states) pride. It has nothing to do with slavery. Most southerners see that flag the way people see the American flag. We love where we come from.

Jcw9811
07-23-2015, 06:44 PM
Of course, America had no colonies. Just ask the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Cuba, all of Mexico that you stole, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas etc. Bunch of hypocrites.

For one Texas asked to join us and for two who gives a damn that was a completely different world back then I could kill my wife if I felt like it stop comparing centuries ago to today it doesn't work

TxTireMan
07-23-2015, 07:54 PM
Don't believe everything you read in a textbook in high school. If you did some research you would know that a lot of stuff they teach is wrong. For example: George Washington was NOT the first American president, there was 7 other presidents before him (one of them was John Hancock). And if you did more research you would know the North actually had MORE slaves than the south. A symbol (or flag) represents whatever you want it to represent. Most southerners see the confederate flag as a symbol of rebellion and/or Dixie (the southern states) pride. It has nothing to do with slavery. Most southerners see that flag the way people see the American flag. We love where we come from.

This man speaks truth. Preach it!

TxTireMan
07-23-2015, 07:55 PM
For one Texas asked to join us and for two who gives a damn that was a completely different world back then I could kill my wife if I felt like it stop comparing centuries ago to today it doesn't work

We obviously fkd up when we made that request.....lmao

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 08:05 PM
you find the gay flag offensive? please enlighten us on how and when have gays ever oppressed you or your ancestors??? you said it yourself, you think the flag represents rebellion(in other words, TREASON), the flag of the defeated should have never even be allowed to fly again. even your famous general lee said to put the flag away. that flag was a battle flag. battle is over, you lost, get over it...

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 08:11 PM
Here's an interesting history lesson delivered by Congressman James Clyburne:

"The Confederacy had three flags. This was never one of them," Clyburn said. "This is a flag, the Confederate battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia, Robert E. Lee's army."

"And when Robert E. Lee surrendered he asked all of his followers to furl this flag. Stow it away, he said. Put it in your attics," Clyburn continued. "He refused to be buried in his Confederate uniform. His family refused to allow anyone dressed in the confederate uniform to attend his funeral."

"Why? Because Robert E. Lee said he considered this emblem to be a symbol of treason.

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 08:12 PM
so,in other words, to name a car that sports the confederate flag "General Lee" is an offense to his memory, as he himself refused to ever again be associated with it...

Evan1000
07-23-2015, 08:14 PM
Textbooks love to hide the truth and that can be said for every country.

The north did not have more slaves than the south. They had slaves of course, but most of the slaves were located in the deep south (Mississippi Louisiana and all those other fun places), which were also the states to originally secede from the U.S to form the confederate states of America.

The confederate flag itself had nothing to do with slaves I agree, but it was the symbol of almost half of the U.S leaving BECAUSE of the issue of slavery.

And the confederate flag is a symbol of rebellion, completely agree, so is the U.S flag, but there's a major difference between the two that's completely obvious..

Vile Lynn
07-23-2015, 08:31 PM
My cat's breath smells like cat food.

HavingFun
07-23-2015, 08:32 PM
Long live the south!! Time to crank up some David Alllan Coe and finish off this case of beer. To all you haters here in the states or people from overseas, if you don't like the Rebel Flag then don't look at it.

MK Loves You
07-23-2015, 08:41 PM
It's kinda funny how the white people here are more offended by a "racist" flag than the black guy. That being said I'm NOT trying to spread any hate I'm just simply trying to get yall ( :) ) to understand that MOST people (not all) from the south do see that flag the same way Americans see the American Flag. I'll admit I've had several drinks and I'm not in a clear mind maybe I'll try to clarify some more tomorrow when i have a clear head. Until then let me suggest you guys reread over my previous post until you understand the point i was trying to make.

namedud
07-23-2015, 08:42 PM
http://i.imgur.com/45JXE01.jpg

MK Loves You
07-23-2015, 08:43 PM
And when you think you understand my point read it some more.

Evan1000
07-23-2015, 08:48 PM
Long live the south!! Time to crank up some David Alllan Coe and finish off this case of beer. To all you haters here in the states or people from overseas, if you don't like the Rebel Flag then don't look at it.

Long live the Nazis!! Time to beat on those inferior to our race and cause. To all you Jew lovers here that are standing in our way if you don't like the swastika don't bother looking at it.

See my point? Not saying the confederate flag is nearly as bad as the Nazi flag, but they share a distinct similarity. Both symbolize dark times in a nation's history

Dipstik
07-23-2015, 08:53 PM
No, evan... you don't have a point. Even if your attempted moral equivalence was valid, no one cares about seeing a swastika online either. Paint one on someone's house and I'll be concerned. Until then, grow a skin, hippy.

Sherod
07-23-2015, 09:09 PM
Confederate flags=good azz wipeage material

Sherod
07-23-2015, 09:14 PM
Anyone pretending that the flag is prideful or defends it= good azz wiping material as well.

Jcw9811
07-23-2015, 09:34 PM
I love it how all it takes is one crazy person to say he killed people because of the flag for everyone to go ape s*** over it

Dipstik
07-23-2015, 09:40 PM
Liberals don't have principles, they have causes.

Sherod
07-23-2015, 09:42 PM
I love it how all it takes is one crazy person to say he killed people because of the flag for everyone to go ape s*** over it

I bet you do love it....and actually that idiot is not the cause, this has been happening way longer than you can remember champ.Im from the south and have dealt with the ignorance longer than I care to admit.

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 09:42 PM
I love it how all it takes is one crazy person to say he killed people because of the flag for everyone to go ape s*** over it

if you think that, you don't realize that the underlying problem was already there, all the guy did was get people to notice it. do you see anyone here saying we should put the flag down because one guy killed some people because he loved the flag? no we tell all of the other reasons it should have been down long time ago.

Red BD
07-23-2015, 09:47 PM
Here's an interesting history lesson delivered by Congressman James Clyburne:
"Why? Because Robert E. Lee said he considered this emblem to be a symbol of treason.

Funny, because Lee never considered that HE, as a loyal Virginian, had committed Treason... And how could any of them? People who never rebelled against the USA. Where in the Constitution does it say secession is not allowed. Never knew the USA was a blood in/blood out gang... Well until 1860. Lots of blood.

So please explain how it is treason when a certain people peacefully leave their nation, peacefully form another, and when the "home" nation refuses to vacate a military fort in the new nation, the army of the new fires on the fort after fair warning, and after 3 or so days, with no Union soldiers dead, allows the boys in blue to surrender and simply go home????

Explain why that is treason? What government was being challenged given the founding documents of the U.S. and it's organization. Folk's ALWAYS forget about the organization of the U.S. (and even it's very name) when equating the Civil War (frankly a misnomer itself) with Treason.

"Let us look for the truth about ourselves in history rather than burying it out of misunderstood embarrassment."

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 09:59 PM
i dont think you know the meaning of the word peacefully. also, unless the "home country" recognizes the new country, it is not a country, it is just a bunch of rebels, who also declared war against the "Home Country". they attacked a fort who was legally allowed to be where it was, as the "Home country" had not recognized the traitor/rebels as a new country. they were still under the sovereignty of the USA, whether they wanted or not. Imagine if any state could just say, you know what? i don't want to belong to this country anymore, and it would just be the end of it? no that doesn't happen. the same way when the USA declared themselves Independent, they had to fight against UK to keep that independence. it doesn't come free. and even then, the south were the first ones to attack, not the north. basically they declared themselves independent and then attacked the north, in that order.... I'm sorry that still sounds like treason to me....

Dipstik
07-23-2015, 10:02 PM
[T]hey were still under the sovereignty of the USA, whether they wanted or not.

Citation please?

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 10:03 PM
for the meaning of sovereignty???

Dipstik
07-23-2015, 10:06 PM
For your rather strong statement on what the law was regarding the permanency of the Union. If you think it's inherent in the meaning of sovereignty, I suggest you take a good look at the concept of "dual sovereignty" and the 10th Amendment of the Constitution.

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 10:10 PM
For your rather strong statement on what the law was regarding the permanency of the Union. If you think it's inherent in the meaning of sovereignty, I suggest you take a good look at the concept of "dual sovereignty" and the 10th Amendment of the Constitution.

you asked for quote:

Scalia is not the first Supreme Court justice to establish this position. In the case of Texas v. White in 1869, Supreme Court Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase wrote that, “The union between Texas and the other states was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original states. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.”

and here is the source, amazingly enough it is a conservative site:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/is-secession-legal/

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 10:11 PM
which actually is exactly what i said. you either rebel or you get permission from the "Home Country"

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 10:11 PM
no permission means, the only way to get away is to rebel, take arms and win it!!!

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 10:13 PM
oh about constitution:

Another argument against secession centers on the language of Article I, Section 10, which declares that “No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation….” To proponents of this position, Article I, Section 10 unequivocally shows that the states which formed the Confederate States of America were in clear violation of the Constitution, thus invalidating their government and the individual acts of secession which led to it. Abraham Lincoln indirectly defended this position by declaring the seceding states were in “rebellion” and therefore still members of the Union. The Constitution, then, was still legally enforceable in those states, including Article I, Section 10.

Dipstik
07-23-2015, 10:15 PM
If you think citing a supreme court decision is sufficient to answer a question like this, at least try not to cite one from immediately after we just fought a long and bloody war over the issue. Obviously the question of secession was decided by the war. We're talking about what the actual law was BEFORE the war. There's actually nothing in the Constitution that deals with the issue of whether there's a procedure for a state or group of states to peacefully leave the union if necessary. The south tried, Lincoln said "no," and we fought a war over it. Now it's settled. You can't project backwards and say that because the North won the war, there was NEVER an argument in favor of lawful secession.

edit: Chain posting is really bad manners. Try thinking out your entire post before hitting the button. At least do all of your google searches and paste the results to me at one time so I can read them all and respond appropriately.

Sherod
07-23-2015, 10:27 PM
Short version, long version, we all know........

Dipstik
07-23-2015, 10:32 PM
I'm already looking ahead to the next big question over the relationship between the states and the federal government: what happens when one tries to go bankrupt? Illinois is pretty much in the same position as Greece right now... will the rest of the country be on the hook for a sovereign state's inability to manage its finances? Everyone seems to understand that the ultimate resolution to Greece's situation would be an exit from the Euro so they can devalue their own currency and start digging out of the hole they're in. Will we consider the same thing for Illinois? If not, does the rest of the country have the right to impose conditions or sanctions?

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 10:32 PM
just because the supreme court made an interpretation to the law that specifically said the article meant it was illegal to secede, it doesn't mean it was legal before. they never had a need to clarify it. “No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation….” was already in the constitution. Please note interesting word Confederation right there!!! in any case, going back to the point in case, the south rebelled, attacked the home country and were declared rebels by the North, they went to battle and lost, its about time they stop clinging to a failed rebellion that was racially(or not) motivated and Unite with the rest of the Nation!!! the south still refuses to follow the constitution and to respect the federal government. did you know Texas is refusing to issue Birth certificates to children who are sons and daughters of illegal immigrants, in clear violation of the constitution??? Any person born here, doesn't matter if the mother was 9 months pregnant and walked the border ten minutes before, IS a US citizen, according to the constitution.

Dipstik
07-23-2015, 10:38 PM
In case this actually requires clarification, secession meant withdrawing from the Constitution. This is what we call an "extra-Constitutional" question. It has no answer in the law and it never can. It was resolved the only way it could be, and next time it comes up again you'll find that the first decision has no precedential value. We're arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin here, except I'm saying there's no answer and you're insisting you've found the right one.

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 10:56 PM
Cant we both agree that the Southern states rebelled, started a conflict, and lost? also cant we agree that the main reason they seceded was because they wanted to keep their slaves?( even if they had economic reasons to do so). so going back to the original point. the confederate flag was battle flag used by rebels, who lost, and that flag should not have been allowed to fly in any government buildings to begin with, moreover, it should have been made illegal right after the end of the civil war, as it was a symbol of such rebellion. even assuming it was legal for them to secede, you know when a country invades another and takes over, first thing they do is to fly up their own flag, and put down the conquered country's flag, and since it would be an annexation, it would make it illegal for anyone to fly the old flag...

Dipstik
07-23-2015, 11:05 PM
Cant we both agree that the Southern states rebelled, started a conflict, and lost? - Absolutely


also cant we agree that the main reason they seceded was because they wanted to keep their slaves? - Nope. Way too simplistic.


the confederate flag was battle flag used by rebels, who lost, and that flag should not have been allowed to fly in any government buildings to begin with - Says who?


it should have been made illegal right after the end of the civil war - I disagree.

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 11:20 PM
says everyone not on the south, meaning the victors.... and some of the people form the south too... point is, even IF at the time it didn't mean to represent a slavery, the fact that it was taken over by the southern racists in the KKK, and all other neo nazi groups, makes one think that maybe it shouldn't be used anywhere else, pretty much like the swastika was corrupted by nazis, and it is banned in Germany, but amazingly it is not banned here.

Dipstik
07-23-2015, 11:24 PM
You're not a big fan of freedom of speech, are you? I get that... I understand a lot of other countries in the world choose not to do it that way, but you understand it's sort of the law around here, right? If the federal government wants to step in and stop south carolina from firing cannons at Ft. Sumter, I'll grant them that might be reasonable under the circumstances, but if it wants to step in and stop south carolina from flying a flag I'm going to cry foul. That's a pretty dangerous bridge you're willing to cross.

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 11:33 PM
heck freedom of speech is the reason we are able to have this talk. but the flag still symbolizes rebellion at the very least, and just for that reason it should be banned, beginning from all public buildings. would you allow ISIS flag to fly over your state capitol?? i guess not, because it is a flag from the enemies of the US. that is exactly what the confederate were, enemies of the UNION, until defeated... you are supporting the enemy's flag... a flag from a defeated army, whose greatest general distanced himself from it to the point of not wanting to be seen or buried with the flag or the uniform of the defeated army. that should tell you something right there.
'

Dipstik
07-23-2015, 11:36 PM
heck freedom of speech is the reason we are able to have this talk. but the flag still symbolizes rebellion at the very least, and just for that reason it should be banned

I stopped reading here. Try again.

BrisingrBoss
07-23-2015, 11:39 PM
my point has been made over and over, and guess what a lot of people agree with me, I would even say the majority of the country do, so i really don't need to keep repeating the same reasons again.

Dat Guy
07-23-2015, 11:43 PM
That's a pretty dangerous bridge you're willing to cross.

Yeah what comes next, a dude marrying a burrito?

Dude gets engaged to a Burrito (http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/to-unfoil-and-to-hold#.sgNAyP01L)

Dipstik
07-23-2015, 11:46 PM
my point has been made over and over, and guess what a lot of people agree with me, I would even say the majority of the country do, so i really don't need to keep repeating the same reasons again.

The majority of the country always agrees whenever controversial ideas are banned. If the majority didn't disagree with it, the subject of banning it wouldn't come up, would it? The First Amendment only exists to protect the things the majority DOESN'T like.

Edit: Going to bed. Hope everyone has enjoyed this peaceful battle against fascism and that we won't need to resort to guns to stop them in the future.

BrisingrBoss
07-24-2015, 12:05 AM
you should have stopped at first amendment. but in any case it doesn't apply. banning it from public buildings does not infringe on your first amendment. also you forgot to comment how texas seems to choose which amendments to abide by, it would seem they lost the right to claim first amendment defense anyway.

Dipstik
07-24-2015, 12:11 AM
Ok you kept me here for one more post. You're completely misunderstanding the sort of speech were talking about here and the holding of the Texas decision you cite. If a state CHOOSES NOT TO engage in certain speech by not flying a flag or not issuing certain commorative license plates, it is free to do so because the STATE is engaging in the expressive conduct. We are talking about a state (or anyone else) CHOOSING to speak and whether the federal government has the authority to step in and prevent it.

Obviously when South Carolina voted to remove the flag they were free to do so. No one's forcing anyone.

Dat Guy
07-24-2015, 01:56 AM
And anyone that thinks the Civil War was fought over slavery should go ask their friendly neighborhood Rothschild why the civil war was fought. Or any other war for that matter.

Ninja☆Smoke
07-24-2015, 07:28 AM
The Confederate Flag debate again, I'm proud of being an American. A black American, a flag represent the action behind that symbol. If People choose to do illegitimate things under that symbol it becomes associated with those actions. Whether it's hate or heritage, you have to live in the shadows of those symbols who chooses to represent it. IF PEOPLE CHOOSE DO RACIST ACTS UNDER THE SHADOW OF THE CONFEDERATE FLAG YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT PEOPLE GONNA JUDGE YOU ON OTHER ACTIONS.

Max Power
07-24-2015, 07:38 AM
Of course, America had no colonies. Just ask the Philippines, Puerto Rico, Cuba, all of Mexico that you stole, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas etc. Bunch of hypocrites.

And nobody in America is puffing their enlightened chests out about abolishing slavery first either. Try and keep up.

Max Power
07-24-2015, 07:47 AM
We turning this into the fourth of July thread again? Cool!

Don't know where to start. The confederate flag symbolizes a dark time in America's history where a bunch of southern states left and created the confederate states of America (there were multiple reasons why they did so, but the biggest one of course was slavery) and that was their flag, and then the north fought them to stay in what would become the worst war in American history. Yes the flag should be banned. Someone beat me to the swastika reference, but you can't go waving a Nazi flag around in Germany, can you?

The American flag symbolizes freedom, as it was created when we were the first country to ever gain independence from another (correct me if I'm wrong, don't know if we were the first). Japanese internment and manifest destiny were of course times in our history where we messed up, but our flag has absolutely nothing to do with it and doesn't symbolize those events in any way.

And finally, yes, of course America imperialized.. guess who we learned it from?

In one breath you state that the American flag stands for freedom and in the next you say that the confederate flag should be banned. What's it gonna be kid? Try thinking for yourself instead of regurgitating public school textbooks for once.

Better yet....don't.

Bad Fish
07-24-2015, 08:12 AM
Where's Clayton Bigsby when you need him most?

Evan1000
07-24-2015, 08:14 AM
You're not a big fan of freedom of speech, are you?

Freedom of speech can only go so far..

Enough about the confederate flag, ever hear about the shirt gap released with the words "Manifest Destiny" displayed across the front of the shirt? Same thing. Good thing that was banned too. We can't do anything we want and keep going back to the first amendment

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2012/10/gap-pulls-manifest-destiny-t-shirt-from-shelves-after-social-media-outcry/

There's the whole story with the manifest destiny shirt. It's pretty funny, the best part about the whole thing was after claiming he didn't know what manifest destiny meant he later tweeted "Manifest Destiny: survival of the fittest"

Evan1000
07-24-2015, 08:16 AM
In one breath you state that the American flag stands for freedom and in the next you say that the confederate flag should be banned. What's it gonna be kid? Try thinking for yourself instead of regurgitating public school textbooks for once.

Better yet....don't.

Read my next comment. It can be said the confederate flag and the U.S flag symbolize the exact same thing, because they do. They both symbolize freedom and rebellion, but there's one obvious difference between the two..

TxTireMan
07-24-2015, 08:53 AM
What if racist extremist starting flying the American flag instead? Are we going to ban that too?

What about cotton shirts? Isn't that a symbol of slavery? Ever heard of the term "cotton picker"??? If you wear/use cotton, you obviously support slavery.

We've been told not to judge all Muslims because of the act of a few extremist. Is a burqa a symbol of terrorism?? No, its not. That being the case, how can a flag be a symbol of hate due to the acts of a few extremist?

TxTireMan
07-24-2015, 09:35 AM
Freedom of speech can only go so far..

Enough about the confederate flag, ever hear about the shirt gap released with the words "Manifest Destiny" displayed across the front of the shirt? Same thing. Good thing that was banned too. We can't do anything we want and keep going back to the first amendment

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2012/10/gap-pulls-manifest-destiny-t-shirt-from-shelves-after-social-media-outcry/

There's the whole story with the manifest destiny shirt. It's pretty funny, the best part about the whole thing was after claiming he didn't know what manifest destiny meant he later tweeted "Manifest Destiny: survival of the fittest"

What's wrong with manifest destiny? That's a huge part of what made USA what it is today.

Dipstik
07-24-2015, 09:37 AM
I love seeing a high school student telling people "freedom of speech can only go so far." We're doomed.

TxTireMan
07-24-2015, 09:59 AM
I love seeing a high school student telling people "freedom of speech can only go so far." We're doomed.

I know right?

TxTireMan
07-24-2015, 10:02 AM
Dam shame we can't fly a flag ofnour choice without being ridiculed, yet openly speaking of and displaying illegal substances is looked past....

Evan1000
07-24-2015, 10:08 AM
What's wrong with manifest destiny?

There's nothing wrong with the general idea of it. Let's expand our borders from sea to shining sea! Great idea. But the actual practice of it was another story


That's a huge part of what made USA what it is today.

So is slavery

BrisingrBoss
07-24-2015, 10:26 AM
basically, you have the right to fly your flag because of first amendment, but it doesn't make it less offensive. so claim first amendment, if you wish, but any other argument has been proven wrong and invalid.

also just to clarify, first amendment says you can say whatever you want, you cannot however spread lies about someone(that's called slender, and it is a crime) so if you want to say you hate someone, go right ahead, if you want to say you don't respect others feelings, or ideas or beliefs, if you want to only associate with people of similar ethnic background as you, that is your right too. you don't have the right, however, to incite violence. that is NOT covered in the first amendment.

also, good going with the flag, it lets us know who the racists are!!!

TxTireMan
07-24-2015, 10:38 AM
There's nothing wrong with the general idea of it. Let's expand our borders from sea to shining sea! Great idea. But the actual practice of it was another story

So we 'cant' wear a shirt that says it, are we going to remove it from history next? When did we get so soft.....


So is slavery

Yes, slavery played a huge part in what we are today, its unfortunate it was that way but that's what happened. If the rebel flag stands for slavery and hate, I'd like to know how the American flag doesn't???

We, 'murica, were once rebels to the motherland. Only difference is we won where the south failed to do so due to numbers.

TxTireMan
07-24-2015, 10:42 AM
basically, you have the right to fly your flag because of first amendment, but it doesn't make it less offensive. so claim first amendment, if you wish, but any other argument has been proven wrong and invalid.

also just to clarify, first amendment says you can say whatever you want, you cannot however spread lies about someone(that's called slender, and it is a crime) so if you want to say you hate someone, go right ahead, if you want to say you don't respect others feelings, or ideas or beliefs, if you want to only associate with people of similar ethnic background as you, that is your right too. you don't have the right, however, to incite violence. that is NOT covered in the first amendment.

Incite violence? I have yet to attempt this....yet.

also, good going with the flag, it lets us know who the racists are!!!

Wow straight to labeling me a racist. Classy. Good thing I am not worried about what you, or anyone else, thinks of me.

TxTireMan
07-24-2015, 10:43 AM
How has this not been locked yet lmao

BrisingrBoss
07-24-2015, 10:44 AM
Yes, slavery played a huge part in what we are today, its unfortunate it was that way but that's what happened. If the rebel flag stands for slavery and hate, I'd like to know how the American flag doesn't???

We, 'murica, were once rebels to the motherland. Only difference is we won where the south failed to do so due to numbers.

and that makes all the difference of the world!!! the fact that the south lost!!! but even after the loss, they are somehow allowed to keep flying the rebel flag, as i said before, first amendment, is the only reason, it doesn't make it less offensive. amazing how the defeated army is still allowed to own and fly their flag.

BrisingrBoss
07-24-2015, 10:46 AM
How has this not been locked yet lmao

because we so far have been arguing about opposing ideas, without trolling or direct attacks to a person. keep it civil.

Evan1000
07-24-2015, 10:48 AM
Yes, slavery played a huge part in what we are today, its unfortunate it was that way but that's what happened. If the rebel flag stands for slavery and hate, I'd like to know how the American flag doesn't???

We, 'murica, were once rebels to the motherland. Only difference is we won where the south failed to do so due to numbers.

Read my last posts, I never said the confederate flag stood for slavery at all. It doesn't, I completely agree with you guys.

What it does symbolize though.. is a dark time in our history where almost half of our nation wanted to leave and form their own which then led to the worst war in American history.

BrisingrBoss
07-24-2015, 10:50 AM
Wow straight to labeling me a racist. Classy. Good thing I am not worried about what you, or anyone else, thinks of me.

that is very clear, that you are not worried, also you labeled yourself one, not me. have you seen the protests lately regarding the flag being removed from some places? who are the people/organizations protesting??? yes, KKK, and neo Nazis are the ones protesting!!!

TxTireMan
07-24-2015, 10:51 AM
Same reason we allow all kinds of different countries flag be flown here. How many of the have we defeated in war?

This like to know how the American flag doesn't stand for slavery and hate when the rebel flag does.....the USA has done all the same things the Confederacy has

BrisingrBoss
07-24-2015, 10:53 AM
so would you be ok with a state flying the Isis flag???

BrisingrBoss
07-24-2015, 10:55 AM
even better lets put the swastika in Washington. how about that??? oh wait, Germany lost the war, we have no need to fly their flag in our public buildings, and we all know what their flag represents, so we can safely call Nazis, anyone who flies that one

HavingFun
07-24-2015, 10:59 AM
even better lets put the swastika in Washington. how about that??? oh wait, Germany lost the war, we have no need to fly their flag in our public buildings, and we all know what their flag represents, so we can safely call Nazis, anyone who flies that one

What does Germany have to do with a discussion about the Confederate Flag lol

BrisingrBoss
07-24-2015, 11:06 AM
What does Germany have to do with a discussion about the Confederate Flag lol

EVERYTHING!!!

Germany was a racist regime who got defeated by the alliance, the south was a racist rebellion who got squashed by the union.. both had flags. we don't fly the German flag, why are we flying the confederate flag???

TxTireMan
07-24-2015, 11:08 AM
that is very clear, that you are not worried, also you labeled yourself one, not me. have you seen the protests lately regarding the flag being removed from some places? who are the people/organizations protesting??? yes, KKK, and neo Nazis are the ones protesting!!!

I never labeled myself a racist. But by your assumption of anyone supporting that flag is racist you must assume that all those NASCAR fans are racist as well? And anyone who ever watched Dukes of Hazard? Anyone girl that wears 'Daisy Dukes' must be racist too....this list goes on

TxTireMan
07-24-2015, 11:11 AM
The difference between the rebel flag and a nazi or Isis flag is that with Nazis/Isis those are their flags, they made them, they flew them and terrorized under them. In the case with the rebel flag an extremist group adopted and performed hate crimes with

Winnson
07-24-2015, 11:15 AM
Nice avatars everyone. Good work.

SollyLlama
07-24-2015, 11:16 AM
This is America. We don't ban flags.

Winnson
07-24-2015, 11:17 AM
^Your avatar looks very Canadian to me.

SollyLlama
07-24-2015, 11:19 AM
Not Canadian. It's a caricature of Bob Odenkirk's character Saul Goodman from Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.

One of my (4) accounts in-game is Saul Goodman.

Winnson
07-24-2015, 11:22 AM
Just the artwork. Most Canadian satire comics look like that.

I really liked Mr. Show!

Red BD
07-24-2015, 11:22 AM
and that makes all the difference of the world!!! the fact that the south lost!!! but even after the loss, they are somehow allowed to keep flying the rebel flag, as i said before, first amendment, is the only reason, it doesn't make it less offensive. amazing how the defeated army is still allowed to own and fly their flag.

Welcome to Reconstrution II.

HavingFun
07-24-2015, 11:24 AM
EVERYTHING!!!

Germany was a racist regime who got defeated by the alliance, the south was a racist rebellion who got squashed by the union.. both had flags. we don't fly the German flag, why are we flying the confederate flag???

Of course we don't fly the German flag in America lol. Also the KKK never adopted the rebel flag as their official flag. And to say the rebel flag represents slavery is ignorant also on your part. You don't like the flag, ok don't buy it and don't stare at it. You see it just carry on with your day because to millions of people that flag doesn't represent racism.

BrisingrBoss
07-24-2015, 11:26 AM
I watched Dukes of hazard as a child, and i had no idea what anything meant, but now, knowing that General Lee wanted to distance himself from the flag and renounced it completely, I find that show very distasteful(Naming the a car that had the flag:"General Lee" is disrespectful to his memory). in any way, everything changes with time, terms were used in the past that are now considered offensive and should be avoided, just because you're used to doing something it doesn't make it any less offensive. you still haven't answered to my request to how and when did gays ever oppress you or your ancestors!!! did you or any of them happen to be a slave to a gay owner, by any chance??? did you or them get ****d, forced to have their children and then have these children sold to slavery as well? Unfortunately we are paying for our fathers sins. If you wanted to tell me that we should all try and get over the slavery thing as something that none of us living has ever lived, and we should embrace each other as human beings, I would agree with you. but that would not mean that the confederate flag is any less of a symbol of a rebellion partially based on their belief in their right to own slaves, and their belief(which was also supported by Christianity at the time) that slaves were not humans, that they did not have souls. no that is exactly what it reminds me of, every time I see one. ow BTW im NOT Afro Descendant . I'm Caucasian, and as far as i know, nobody in my family going back many generations is originated from Africa .

BrisingrBoss
07-24-2015, 11:32 AM
Those who believe slavery was not a central point of conflict in the Civil War may wish to peruse the South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi and Texas declarations of secession. Those documents all explicitly cite threats to slavery as reasons for secession. Mississippi's declaration goes so far as to say that “a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.”

HavingFun
07-24-2015, 11:34 AM
ow BTW im NOT Afro Descendant . I'm Caucasian, and as far as i know, nobody in my family going back many generations is originated from Africa .

I find your abbreviation for African American very offensive and racist.

TxTireMan
07-24-2015, 11:35 AM
Those who believe slavery was not a central point of conflict in the Civil War may wish to peruse the South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi and Texas declarations of secession. Those documents all explicitly cite threats to slavery as reasons for secession. Mississippi's declaration goes so far as to say that “a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.”

Oh look! he can google! At least give credits to Huffington Post for your comment

TxTireMan
07-24-2015, 11:36 AM
I find your abbreviation for African American very offensive and racist.

Right? "afro decent"??? Any i dont recall anyone asking or commenting on your ethnic background, not sure why that would matter