Duplicate Prizes

[Evan1000]

Remember these lovely duplicate prizes that were handed out during the 7 day war and in previous wars? Well.. they're back!! Great, absolutely wonderful. This past SA every indi prize I received was in fact a duplicate of the SA before it. So I went through the liberty of going through my inventory and seeing how many duplicates I have. This isn't the final number, but I saw a whooping 22 duplicate prizes! These 22 prizes, if you don't know, have a modifier on them but don't actually give me the modifier because I have the same exact item and modifier, and these duplicate items have mods that "don't stack".

Here's an example of a prize that has a modifier that stacks and shows up in my bonuses:

http://i.imgur.com/CNQYpYi.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/83fpIpo.jpg

See how I have 7 2% mod items and it shows up in my bonuses as 14% like it should be? Well take a look at this..

http://i.imgur.com/ozyChKF.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/gAN71zX.jpg

My second Assault DSP Sniper doesn't count. That's a 9% mod I'm missing right there.

Have a another example:

http://i.imgur.com/NBl6HUG.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/t96ppTF.jpg

I have three of these Assault Kage Gi's! And only one of them counted.

Out of the 22 duplicate items that I have seen in my inventory, I am missing a total of 61% in mods. That's just insane, and I'm sure I have plenty more.

There is no good excuse anyone at GREE can ever make that can explain why they offer duplicate prizes if the mods that we spend gold for do not count, and all I'm asking is that someone please look into this.

[1Shot]

I've noticed a few duplicates myself. I defiantly think something should be done about this because what's the point of having the same prize twice? Nothing. It doesn't do anything to our stats. So with that being said, I will give the managers a look at this and see what they can do.

[TheJess]

The old non-stacking switcheroo

[cooch]

Remember these lovely duplicate prizes that were handed out during the 7 day war and in previous wars? Well.. they're back!! Great, absolutely wonderful. This past SA every indi prize I received was in fact a duplicate of the SA before it. So I went through the liberty of going through my inventory and seeing how many duplicates I have. This isn't the final number, but I saw a whooping 22 duplicate prizes! These 22 prizes, if you don't know, have a modifier on them but don't actually give me the modifier because I have the same exact item and modifier, and these duplicate items have mods that "don't stack".

Here's an example of a prize that has a modifier that stacks and shows up in my bonuses:

http://i.imgur.com/CNQYpYi.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/83fpIpo.jpg

See how I have 7 2% mod items and it shows up in my bonuses as 14% like it should be? Well take a look at this..

http://i.imgur.com/ozyChKF.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/gAN71zX.jpg

My second Assault DSP Sniper doesn't count. That's a 9% mod I'm missing right there.

Have a another example:

http://i.imgur.com/NBl6HUG.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/t96ppTF.jpg

I have three of these Assault Kage Gi's! And only one of them counted.

Out of the 22 duplicate items that I have seen in my inventory, I am missing a total of 61% in mods. That's just insane, and I'm sure I have plenty more.

There is no good excuse anyone at GREE can ever make that can explain why they offer duplicate prizes if the mods that we spend gold for do not count, and all I'm asking is that someone please look into this.

Evan you have three choices

1. Enjoy the stat boost and don't worry about the mod
2. Don't bother playing SA seriously or at all
3. Try other app developers games. They haven't got there yet with rinse/repeats

Of course we rely on 16 yr olds to keep gree honest. But shaming them appears to show us they don't see this as an issue. Sigh

[MK Loves You]

I admire your persistence, but you're fighting a lost cause.

[Bolt]

I had to look it up but during an AMA in October one of the developers explained that "Moving forward, individual tier rewards will not stack. We need to take this measure to balance the game and to control stat inflation."

http://forums.gree.net/showthread.php?101063-AMA-Ask-the-Team-Anything!&p=1412269&viewfull=1#post1412269

[Dipstik]

They know that. They want you to change that policy, and they think it's more persuasive to pretend to be shocked every time it comes up again.

[Evan1000]

http://i.imgur.com/LmM6q3O.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/Jsi7tN6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/96F6u26.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/TabPn4m.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KrE5PgK.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/TKOiATv.jpg


Can you please ask Engram how exactly this is balancing the game? Doesn't look like balancing to me. Looks like ripping people off.

No new players got any of these prizes because new players aren't in the syndicates that these prizes are typically handed out to.

[Bolt]

Can you please ask Engram how exactly this is balancing the game? Doesn't look like balancing to me. Looks like ripping people off.

No new players got any of these prizes because new players aren't in the syndicates that these prizes are typically handed out to.

I'm not sure I understand what you're arguing, could you clarify.

[Evan1000]

I'm not sure I understand what you're arguing, could you clarify.

Sorry. Engram was the developer that said that. And this was the game balance he was talking about:

http://i.imgur.com/MSUud1Y.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wQlrUpn.jpg

Which is why I was really hoping you could look into this, because this isn't creating game balance, it's just.. I don't even know.

If you look at the war prizes, where the T100 syn prize is a like 7% mod and the T150 prize a 2%, where most of the new players are, there no game balance, so I really don't know why duplicate modifiers don't stack.

[cooch]

I had to look it up but during an AMA in October one of the developers explained that "Moving forward, individual tier rewards will not stack. We need to take this measure to balance the game and to control stat inflation."

http://forums.gree.net/showthread.php?101063-AMA-Ask-the-Team-Anything!&p=1412269&viewfull=1#post1412269

Bolt: Is Engram still with Gree?

[Vile Lynn]

Bolt: Is Engram still with Gree?

He still has his forum account, so I'd guess he's still with GREE.
(look under forum leaders)

@Evan, don't worry too much about it.
Only Taylor Swift could change GREE's mind on stackable boosts, haha.

[Bolt]

Engram is still with GREE, yes.

Having non-stackable boosts doesn't single handedly control stat inflation but having the bonuses you mention stack wouldn't help either. I will try to have a conversation about this with a developer at some time in the future but right now I'm pretty swamped with work for the upcoming Beta so this isn't something I can look into soon. If there are good threads on the subject I can read up on you can point me to (or start a conversation about it now) let me know.

[Dipstik]

You can read the support ticket evan posted... It's a pretty good explanation.

[Evan1000]

Well the thread I made on the ticket I sent was deleted, but I'll copy and paste what was said so you can see it.

http://i.imgur.com/prlkr3w.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/8lOu7oG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/of8NxiA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yV3sXez.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/Q67EMcv.png


I fail to see how having bonuses that we competed and spent gold for affect the game balance. Isn't that the whole point of the game, grow your stats and compete in battles for prizes that help your stats, and not battle for absolutely nothing so a new player can catch up to you? Then what would be the point of playing if you can't advance and you have to wait for someone to catch up to you?

When I counted all my duplicate prizes, that's 61% of modifiers that I fought and spent gold to get and never got. I didn't realize how bad duplicate prizes were until I actually took the time and figured out how much I was actually missing out on.

And the 61% is only the ones that I know of.

[Dipstik]

Facepalm.jpg

[Evan1000]

http://i.imgur.com/VuaPgcj.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ihR0Haf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/gwJBHVB.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/axnGnTR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/u4Atw4b.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/wKzM8Bd.jpg

So there's absolutely nothing wrong with these pictures? I'm not being cheated in any way whatsoever?

[cajunman]

http://i.imgur.com/VuaPgcj.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/ihR0Haf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/gwJBHVB.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/axnGnTR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/u4Atw4b.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/wKzM8Bd.jpg

So there's absolutely nothing wrong with these pictures? I'm not being cheated in any way whatsoever?

Evan - I brought this up with Gree a long time ago when it started to happen and they informed at that time that duplicate prizes no longer stack won in war as they need to even the playing field for new players which is a ridiculous answer, because new players quickly caught older players with the easy EB AND RB events where you could farm weapons.
I learned long ago during wars or SA to position my individual placement so I don't get the same prize, which means I spend less gold in that event.

you need to learn Greematics (your time + gold + repeated prizes = they don't care)

[Evan1000]

I got 4 more duplicate prizes this past SA!!! Wonderful.

I'd be lying if I didn't say this is starting to get on my nerves just a lil bit..

[Dipstik]

Actually you wouldn't be lying if you didn't say it, you'd just be slightly less annoying.

[namedud]

Actually you wouldn't be lying if you didn't say it, you'd just be slightly less annoying.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jfsKfoWVn8M/UXsQ7cC00II/AAAAAAAAN6U/TjK-wUiQ0bg/s320/Slow+clap+gif.gif

[Pablo Benassi]

How i can count my dupliicates?

[Brendan]

Actually you wouldn't be lying if you didn't say it, you'd just be slightly less annoying.

Pot, kettle, black. Trot along pony troll.

[Evan1000]

How i can count my dupliicates?

Go to your inventory and look for a item with a mod where you have more than 1 (look at my pictures for an example).
Let's say it's a 5% melee attack and you have 2 of them.

Then go to your profile and click "view bonuses" and find that item. If it says 5% melee attack, it's a duplicate. If it says 10% melee attack (like it's supposed to), then it's not. But chances are most of them will be duplicates

[Max Power]

Actually you wouldn't be lying if you didn't say it, you'd just be slightly less annoying.

Excellent.


I got 4 more duplicate prizes this past SA!!! Wonderful.

I'd be lying if I didn't say this is starting to get on my nerves just a lil bit..


You are getting what you paid for. Which is nothing. I have never seen somebody complain so much about free stuff in my life.

[Dipstik]

Pot, kettle, black. Trot along pony troll.

Going the bitter, angry route, I see. Oh well... Unsurprising, really.

[Evan1000]

You are getting what you paid for. Which is nothing. I have never seen somebody complain so much about free stuff in my life.

It's not free. It takes gold, and I'm obviously not getting what I gave gold for because if you scroll up and actually read what I wrote you would see how that is so not the case.

[Vile Lynn]

Evan, you know they don't stack, and I'm sure you're smart enough to figure out which rewards would be duplicates for you. From now on, be smart enough with your gold to get units you don't have already.

Iow, don't spend gold for dups.

[Evan1000]

Evan, you know they don't stack, and I'm sure you're smart enough to figure out which rewards would be duplicates for you. From now on, be smart enough with your gold to get units you don't have already.

Iow, don't spend gold for dups.

Sounds easy enough, except to avoid an individual prize last SA, I would've had to rank 5 places higher, and for a bunch of 2% mods it's not worth it.

And that 7 day war it was impossible to avoid a duplicate because almost every single prize was one.

How does no one see anything wrong with duplicate prizes

[Evan1000]

http://i.imgur.com/78hJSSIh.jpg

The indi prizes from last SA. I had every single prize in the screenshot already

[Vile Lynn]

How does no one see anything wrong with duplicate prizes

I guess if I cared enough about my stats and if I spent gold to increase my stats, I might see something wrong with dup prizes.

But, I don't care. *shrugs* :)

[namedud]

Sounds easy enough, except to avoid an individual prize last SA, I would've had to rank 5 places higher, and for a bunch of 2% mods it's not worth it.

And that 7 day war it was impossible to avoid a duplicate because almost every single prize was one.

How does no one see anything wrong with duplicate prizes

Why is there anything wrong with dupe prizes? Newer players will generally grow faster than older players, older players get to decide how much, if anything, they are willing to spend to maintain their "advantage". You don't have to spend if you don't want to and that's fine, but the game is designed so that you eventually max out on the free stuff and are taking what you can get as Gree hands it out... Or paying to get more numbers, faster.

[Dipstik]

I think it's a fine system now that everyone knows they don't stack. I'm with Lynn, though... I don't worry much about my stats.

[Max Power]

It's not free. It takes gold, and I'm obviously not getting what I gave gold for because if you scroll up and actually read what I wrote you would see how that is so not the case.

How much did you pay for that gold?

[Evan1000]

The excuse of new players catching up is not in any way relevant. A 1% mod isn't going to catch a new player up to an old player.

[Evan1000]

How much did you pay for that gold?

Fair point. How much time it took me to get the gold is another point.

And what about 90% of everyone else that gets these prizes that pays for gold? It's fair to them?

[Dipstik]

The excuse of new players catching up is not in any way relevant. A 1% mod isn't going to catch a new player up to an old player.

Ok, I'll bite. Care to explain how you came to this conclusion? I have popcorn.

[Vile Lynn]

My newer player caught up to my oldest player. I blame modifiers.

Tangent: Then my oldest player got a bit ahead in stats. The only difference was doing the LTQs or not. Now, both do LTQs. I don't mind leveling up, because I like to play.

[Max Power]

Fair point. How much time it took me to get the gold is another point.

And what about 90% of everyone else that gets these prizes that pays for gold? It's fair to them?

Well, you have proven here repeatedly that your time is not a tremendously valuable commodity. The mind boggles when people in high school start assigning value to time. You've never even had a job.

And I will worry about the people that actually pay for gold when they start threads complaining about this issue and post as often as you do about it. So far, that isn't happening. Not even close.

I have a few complaints about this game, but I quit buying gold ages ago. Since I am no longer a paying customer, I am fully aware that Gree has no interest in listening to any complaint that I might have, and on that point, I would agree with them.

[Dipstik]

Well to be fair to evan, I'm pretty sure he actually does buy his gold.

[Vile Lynn]

Confession time for Evan?

The truth will set you free.

[namedud]

Confession time for Evan?

The truth will set you free.

http://students.nridge.net/Computers/HTML/2008_09_5th6th/StudentWebServer/HakJ1011/pics/flying_pig.gif

[Max Power]

Well to be fair to evan, I'm pretty sure he actually does buy his gold.

So by my previous definitions, if he doesn't buy his gold, he is a crybaby, if he does buy his gold, he is a flat out liar....LOL!

Not good Evan, not good. :D

[Evan1000]

Ok, I'll bite. Care to explain how you came to this conclusion? I have popcorn.

A 1% mod is pretty self explanatory.. but if not

The average long term player has like 300/400% worth of mods in each category. So far at this moment all the indi prizes of SA in the new format have been duplicates. There's been what, 5 of these SA's?

I usually rank where I get 5 different 1% mods, and probably half are duplicates. This is with a lot of choppers that new players can't really afford, and some gold. Let's say the new player ranks where he gets 2 1% mods.

For example purposes they're all mods for the same category and my old account started off with 300%, my new account started off at 0%. My old account got 5% the first SA and my new 2%, so 305% and 2%. For the next 4 SA's my old received 2% in New mods and 3% in duplicates and my new received the same steady 2%.

Now my old is at 313% and my new account is at 10%. And of course my old account through various other events over the course of 5 SA's (2-3 cycles) has gotten maybe a total of 30% of mods in that category and my new being it can't participate in many has gotten 10-15%.

But oh wait.. since the new player can't afford to rank higher and has been receiving the same 2% mods each and every SA, he's actually being cheated too! So now my old is even farther ahead of him than without the duplicates.

So yeah.. new players aren't catching up with these duplicates. What's the real reasoning behind this?

Also, don't see why dippy is so bent on the fact that I spend money on this game. The closest I've come to spending money was buying a $5 batmobile through tapjoy for 155 gold, which I could've cancelled the order right after I got the gold but it was cool so I kept it.

[Dipstik]

So Evan... are you being willfully ignorant or just the usual type of ignorant? I'm *guessing* you're just pretending not to understand how the mods not stacking helps new players catch up because you're trying to make a point. You're failing. Remember... people who pretend to be dumb aren't very persuasive because they still look dumb to the person they're trying to persuade.

[namedud]

A 1% mod is pretty self explanatory.. but if not

The average long term player has like 300/400% worth of mods in each category. So far at this moment all the indi prizes of SA in the new format have been duplicates. There's been what, 5 of these SA's?

I usually rank where I get 5 different 1% mods, and probably half are duplicates. This is with a lot of choppers that new players can't really afford, and some gold. Let's say the new player ranks where he gets 2 1% mods.

For example purposes they're all mods for the same category and my old account started off with 300%, my new account started off at 0%. My old account got 5% the first SA and my new 2%, so 305% and 2%. For the next 4 SA's my old received 2% in New mods and 3% in duplicates and my new received the same steady 2%.

Now my old is at 313% and my new account is at 10%. And of course my old account through various other events over the course of 5 SA's (2-3 cycles) has gotten maybe a total of 30% of mods in that category and my new being it can't participate in many has gotten 10-15%.

But oh wait.. since the new player can't afford to rank higher and has been receiving the same 2% mods each and every SA, he's actually being cheated too! So now my old is even farther ahead of him than without the duplicates.

So yeah.. new players aren't catching up with these duplicates. What's the real reasoning behind this?

Also, don't see why dippy is so bent on the fact that I spend money on this game. The closest I've come to spending money was buying a $5 batmobile through tapjoy for 155 gold, which I could've cancelled the order right after I got the gold but it was cool so I kept it.

Have you actually counted your stats and checked what adds what, or are you a budding novelist?

[crime cow]

The main thing I take away from this thread is Jess is to Dippy as Dippy is to Evan.

Evan actually made some good points above. I personally wouldn't be able to tell you if I had any duplicate prizes, because I never check. As with many others on this forum, I don't have enough interest in prizes to even take the time to verify if I've actually received anything after an event. However, if he is correct that the lower level prizes are duplicating also, then the explanation that the duplicates are to help new players doesn't hold water. A more likely explanation for the duplicates would be that the developers are lazy and didn't want to think of new prizes.

All that being said, I think Evan should remember how Albert Einstein defined Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[Evan1000]

Have you actually counted your stats and checked what adds what, or are you a budding novelist?

With GREE's mystery factors they make it impossible. I've tried. But 65% in mods (that I know of) would I assume make for a pretty decent stat bump.


However, if he is correct that the lower level prizes are duplicating also, then the explanation that the duplicates are to help new players doesn't hold water. A more likely explanation for the duplicates would be that the developers are lazy and didn't want to think of new prizes.

Finally :p. Thank you.

There's nothing wrong with duplicate prizes in general, every game has that, but the whole concept of duplicate prizes not stacking and that GREE put that in place intentionally is what I don't get, and the excuse they gave about new players catching up doeesn't hold water at all.

I don't know if dippy chooses not to see that to make his own point or is just trolling

[TMI]

The main thing I take away from this thread is Jess is to Dippy as Dippy is to Evan.

Evan actually made some good points above. I personally wouldn't be able to tell you if I had any duplicate prizes, because I never check. As with many others on this forum, I don't have enough interest in prizes to even take the time to verify if I've actually received anything after an event. However, if he is correct that the lower level prizes are duplicating also, then the explanation that the duplicates are to help new players doesn't hold water. A more likely explanation for the duplicates would be that the developers are lazy and didn't want to think of new prizes.

All that being said, I think Evan should remember how Albert Einstein defined Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


With GREE's mystery factors they make it impossible. I've tried. But 65% in mods (that I know of) would I assume make for a pretty decent stat bump.



Finally :p. Thank you.

There's nothing wrong with duplicate prizes in general, every game has that, but the whole concept of duplicate prizes not stacking and that GREE put that in place intentionally is what I don't get, and the excuse they gave about new players catching up doeesn't (sic) hold water at all.

I don't know if dippy chooses not to see that to make his own point or is just trolling

I don't understand. please explain?

[TMI]

Also, if crime cow and even think that the confederate flag should be banned from private property, please go to the OT poll for some pwnage :D

[crime cow]

Also, if crime cow and even think that the confederate flag should be banned from private property, please go to the OT poll for some pwnage :D

Huh? When did I ever say you shouldn't fly the con flag on private property?? Fly a pair of old underwear on your flagpole if you want. I've got other things to worry about...but thanks for randomly assigning this thought to me...

[TMI]

Huh? When did I ever say you shouldn't fly the con flag on private property?? Fly a pair of old underwear on your flagpole if you want. I've got other things to worry about...but thanks for randomly assigning this thought to me...

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I said IF. I wasn't attributing that thought to you. I said IF. Anyways, I don't understand how it doesn't allow new players to catch up.

[crime cow]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I said IF. I wasn't attributing that thought to you. I said IF. Anyways, I don't understand how it doesn't allow new players to catch up.

No biggie, I find the flag debate fascinating due to the passionate feelings on both sides and all the issues that it brings up. Having never been on the wrong side of racism it is hard for me to completely understand those feelings, but I also know that not everyone that flies the flag is a racist. Complex topic so I'll have to check out the OT thread.

As far as the duplicate prizes helping new players it is an interesting theory. I just looked at my attack mods for the first time since I don't know when, and they are all over 300%. Now I'm assuming that if I was to add up all of the mods I have they would total much more than 300%, but since they are applied as a percentage and not a raw number, the total is lower than assumed. I could be wrong on this and I don't want to spend the time doing the math and research, but this is how the building cost reduction mods work (two 30% reductions total 51%). The only reason this matters, is because it would take new players even longer to catch up when the mods are applied in this fashion.

Either way, my statement was that if prizes are duplicating for all levels, as Evan claims, than this doesn't help new players catch up. If a new player gets five 2% mods during an SA they've gained 10% on my 300%. So technically they've gained a little. However, if the next SA they finish in the same spot, they will not gain any more ground. At this rate it would take them a very long time to make any meaningful ground.

I think the bigger issue is that the mods are/were creating issues with Gree's system, as it seemed to cap out and top players were actually regressing with each new mod. Gree may have decided that this answer didn't make them look good so the spin doctor's came up with the 'new player' story.

But why should new players be able to catch old players? The only reason would be if Gree is having trouble attracting new players, so they have to escalate their stats quickly so they have someone to compete against. In this scenario Gree needs to bring new players up quickly to keep the game alive. The reality is stat inflation renders old weapons useless and closes the gap much quicker for new players versus duplicate items with mods. This is why stat inflation continues unchecked. It used to be you could close the gap with one epic boss, but Gree finally saw the detriment of that cycle.

There are many ways you can make money on a gaming platform. Gree has chosen the strategy of milking more profit out of fewer players and I think it's too late for them gto switch course now, so expect to see everything continue as is.

[<3 Hz]

Actually Evan is doing us a great service by exposing these con artists & warning everyone to spend at your own risk or get ripped off.

Never mind dipstik he's a paid shill/troll who ponsed hard in a T10 syn while everyone else did the heavy lifting.

[Evan1000]

Everything crime cow said was spot on.. except for the way mods add up, which confused me.

Attack and defense mods add up just fine. If you have a 30% melee attack and another 30% melee attack, in your bonuses it will say 60%. Upgrade time mods, bank fee mods, and every other mod with a - instead of a + is a completely different story.

The only thing that's missing is if you have two 30% melee attacks of the exact same prize.. then it would only show up in your bonuses as 30%.