GLTQ Fraud

[Jomama1]

So first gree sets up massive GLTQ that costs thousands to complete

Then when we complete it we find out that there is a glitch and anyone can get the reward for free.

My gemmers are not happy nor are the gemmers in the other guilds that spent real money for this.

So please tell us how this will be rectified. Options are

-remove wrapper from those who do not have 30/30 unit (preferred)
-switch bonus from wrapper to 30/30 if first is too hard
-refund all gems and potions spent on this event

we will ask Apple for compensation if you do not address this and many gemmers are prepared to continue the mass exodus.

[Jomama1]

And it's not just the money - this GLTQ was long and tedious. A handful of guilds worked their tails off to finish and now must question why they even play this game. It completely breaks the game when you have an event this hard and then allow people to get the reward with no effort at all.

But it's a easy fix. Just remove the wrapper prize (with alliance attack boost) form those who do not also possess the 30/30 unit. Please do this. You are killing this game as is with wars longer than we like and now you just flush our gems down the drain. Your gemmers are very disillusioned.

[grantsmith1]

Couldn't agree more .... this GLTQ was ridiculous from the outset with huge energy requirements meaning even the top guilds with the best energy regen had to gem beyond all reasonable expectation in order to complete the event to do this and invest the enormous amount of time required by our members to trawl through all those heroic levels spending thousands of £/$ between us only to find that any guild who had completed the normal section could then complete it for free is another example of the ridiculously bad programming currently being released. This is the final straw for many players on top of the many already leaving this game in droves due to the ridiculous direction and lack of planning by the KA development team. FIX THIS NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!

[E-I]

So how is this different than when RK and SB used to get multi-kills in the raid boss event and save thousands? The difference is that they did a better job keeping that trick a secret for 6 months?

[Stark.]

The difference is that work still had to be done to complete the quest. In this instance, people that did not put in any effort whatsoever have gotten an incredibly good prize for doing nothing.

[Stark.]

Also, another option for would be to add a boost to the 30/30 unit. Something better than a 6% alliance attack.

[Schar]

True, but this one takes someone that has won the prize to consciously gift it away (maybe some wil be by accident, but most will be completely intentional).

So re-ask yourself, where is the fraud exactly? Look internally first at those that did complete and chose to give a prize to others. Most receivers of the bonus won't even know it has happened. If you feel that strongly about it, I suggest you kick anyone out of your guild that has exploited this fairly typical gap.

Why this surprises people is amusing. It's not like wrapper prizes have been completely bug free.


This is fantastic:

The difference is that work still had to be done to complete the quest. In this instance, people that did not put in any effort whatsoever have gotten an incredibly good prize for doing nothing.
Can in infer from this that you think it is quite ok to cheat if you do a l little bit of work to go with it? I find this argument petty thin.


GREE games have forever being about balancing time and / or money with known exploits. The quality of the software is something I've never seen equal to in a production environment. There must be very little pride behind the development and maintenance of any of the titles. To call out one example: fixing the energy exploit is so trivial - it was done (I suspect by mistake) in LaW/DR overnight. Which in hindsight probably killed the game.

[BeastMode...on]

Has anything been done about this? Did anyone or any team who actually completed it receive compensation and/or a response?

[truthteller]

Not event the mods have post here

I guess GREEdy does not care, they got lots of revenue from gemmers and could care less if other got it now for free
they will do nothing about it, becuase it would mean, reducing revenues in the amount equal to the proper fix for this

[SenorSwamp]

True, but this one takes someone that has won the prize to consciously gift it away (maybe some wil be by accident, but most will be completely intentional).

So re-ask yourself, where is the fraud exactly? Look internally first at those that did complete and chose to give a prize to others. Most receivers of the bonus won't even know it has happened. If you feel that strongly about it, I suggest you kick anyone out of your guild that has exploited this fairly typical gap.

Why this surprises people is amusing. It's not like wrapper prizes have been completely bug free.


This is fantastic:

Can in infer from this that you think it is quite ok to cheat if you do a l little bit of work to go with it? I find this argument petty thin.



I couldn't agree with you more. I attempted to have the conversation last night with a few people, but was not met with a willingness for discourse. I also appreciated the RB example offered earlier. That probably saved, on average, a group 33%-40% of the total damage needed (I could go through the trouble of calculating it based on the chart, but I surmise I am close). This went on for months. If you take those outcomes and compound it over several events, the impact (both in terms of dollars/gems saved for the exploiters and units/bonuses received) would far surpass one 6% alliance increase.

Do I think Gree mucked up? Yes. Does it suck for the people that spent inordinate amount of sums for this prize? Absolutely.

Now comes the follow up--and where I think the heart of the issue truly lies:

1) do we pay them back for effectively wasting their money on something they could've gotten for free? In my mind-- no--not unless you do the same for all of those that went before them. And if we are exercise that kind of review, then we should audit every person that requests to make sure there was never any impropriety on their part.
2) do we pay them back because we do not want to upset the apple cart that is the game's whales? (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/195806/chasing_the_whale_examining_the_.php?print=1) Yes, I think, this is worth exploring. But just own it. Pay them back because they are critical to your game's financial success. Do not dress up it up as 'honor' or some other attempt at moral supremacy.

[Jomama1]

And ultimately those who completed the GLTQ legitimately would much prefer a fix to a payback.

We spent ton of time and money to get a great prize and happily did that. But it is pointless now as a bunch of others got it for nothing.

I have a ton of very disillusioned members who were happy about completing a quest than completely deflated when they discovered they wasted their money. This is what makes it fraud. We spent money to earn a prize under the explicit understanding that this is what was required to earn the prize. Then we find out we could have done nothing but called up a buddy and gotten it free.

Yes there were glitches before but they never manifested in this way where guilds spent huge amounts that were completely unnecessary.

Please fix this. Perhaps balancing by putting a huge bonus on 30/30 if its too hard to remove the illegitimate wrapper or move the bonus from the wrapper to 30/30. The cleaner the better.

[Bolt]

Thank you for bringing this up, I have escalated this issue with the developers, I am waiting to hear back.

[Tiki]

all the events are becoming ridiculously time consuming, and even if you spend every waking moment playing you will likely still need to spend real money to finish an event. If you have real life commitments will just mean spend more money. I find it very disheartening to see where this game is going. People focus more on finding bugs that will help them complete events, because events are for the most part, impossible to complete for free. I am with a guild who did finish the event using a lot of hard work and a lot of gems. While I am very upset that other guilds got it basically for free, I can understand why so many jumped at the chance to get it for "free" and no work.
And now after a horrible 6 day war, a waste of time and money on the guild limited time quest, you release another impossible individual time quest. Sorry Gree, but this player (who has been playing KA since its inception) has finally given up due to your total disregard to player satisfaction, the bugs, and the impossibility of your events.
Sadly, I also know this message will have fallen on deaf ears as I believe Gree really doesn't care about what the customer wants.

[Erageous]

I'm sorry but most people "in the know" take advantage of glitches and the poor programming of this game. Back when the energy glitch worked last summer, should all the people who didn't know about it get refunds on the gems they spent? Should all those who spent money to finish heroic RB get their money back because they didn't know about the multiple kills?

My feeling is, if you have ever used a glitch in this game to your advantage, you have no room to complain now.

[raffi]

Then i want my gems back when i spent them on energy quests earlier when i didnt know about the energy glitch, or thoose who used it just get the final rewards removed. Same with hrb with multi kills. If Gree changed this now, just because thoose who spend more than others, but also are the ones who cheats/take advantage(choose which one u want) most of glitches/Gree **** ups, I'm done with this game.

[KAsean]

I agree with post #6, simply add a boost to the 30/30 unit, say 10% Alliance boost A&D.

I don't think Gree can fix what happened. They also cannot repay everyone. It's more than gems, but time and effort. Not only on the quest but away from trials (that the others got to work on, while we quested)

If a boost is too difficult, then modify the 30/30 stats by 15x. A 500+ mil unit is about the same as the original prize.

[Schar]

I'm sorry but most people "in the know" take advantage of glitches and the poor programming of this game. Back when the energy glitch worked last summer, should all the people who didn't know about it get refunds on the gems they spent?

Bingo.

Last summer? It worked from day one until last summer. Just became a "problem" with iOS 6 when airplane mode was so easy. Before then it took tinfoil, turning off your main router or having a slave WiFi network you could easily toggle up and down. That was much harder for most people. Wasn't just limited to KA; all the games had it.... even the now defunct MQ and DR/LaW. CC had an additional one as well that was hilarious, super recharge.

Goes to reinforce a tenant I've always believed: it doesn't matter how smart you think you are, there is always someone out the re smarter (or luckier) than you that will find a hole in your app, either by bad code or platform holes. So you need to instrument (and monitor!) and react swiftly and decisively; concepts that are left at the door to the GREE studio.

[Jomama1]

This is a clear error by Gree. It is absurd to argue that it shouldn't be fixed because of previous errors. If someone had complained earlier because they had been screwed by a bug then those errors should have bee fixed too They didn't because nobody was screwed as they are screwed now.

And the people who were screwed are the gemmers who pay for this game. The game ends when they leave. And they are furious.

Arguing that you have the moral high ground in support of getting something for free that others paid a lot of time and money for is pure rationalization.

Gree needs to rectify this.

[Stark.]

This is fantastic:

Can in infer from this that you think it is quite ok to cheat if you do a l little bit of work to go with it? I find this argument petty thin.

I think you missed the point. I don't know a single guild that didn't take advantage of the multi-kill in RB. Or any of the glitches that have been apart of the game in the past. It has always been that an energy quest has been doable (without gems) as long as you were super active. If you put in the work, you could get the reward. The use of gems was merely a means to get done faster or play catchup. That is no longer the case. Energy quests now require gems to finish. So I can completely understand why those that put in the work/gems to finish are pissed off. Those that did not put in the work are getting the prize for free.

[Saint-BEL]

I do think you are being a bit harsh by saying those that got the reward through the bug didn't put in any effort.
Most guild did the GLTQ non stop for the entire time but simply didn't have the gems or energy regeneration to get even close to finishing.

If you don't like it, well too bad and i hope that gree fixes it for you next time you sorry ass whiners :D

[truthteller]

Then i want my gems back when i spent them on energy quests earlier when i didnt know about the energy glitch, or thoose who used it just get the final rewards removed. Same with hrb with multi kills. If Gree changed this now, just because thoose who spend more than others, but also are the ones who cheats/take advantage(choose which one u want) most of glitches/Gree **** ups, I'm done with this game.

If Gree does something it will be towards keeping the big spenders happy and spending...............hmmm guess they may remove those wrapper

[The red Baron]

The best is to give to those finshed (as us) a second bonus unit.
All would be happy

[Stark.]

I do think you are being a bit harsh by saying those that got the reward through the bug didn't put in any effort.
Most guild did the GLTQ non stop for the entire time but simply didn't have the gems or energy regeneration to get even close to finishing.

If you don't like it, well too bad and i hope that gree fixes it for you next time you sorry ass whiners :D

Ok no need to get mean. I'm just trying to explain it from that perspective. I'm not saying that people didn't put in effort on the GLTQ but they did not put in the effort to finish heroic (which was exponentially harder than normal). Normal was a pain to complete and personally I think GREE is way out of line with the amount of energy that is required to complete LTQs now. It used to be that if you were super active you could finish quests without gem use but times have changed and that is no longer the case. But I digress. Those that finished heroic did more work than those that didn't. Most guilds stopped after normal was completed and switched to trials as the wrapper for completing trials is better than the rewards gained from continuing the GLTQ.

[BeastMode...on]

I do think you are being a bit harsh by saying those that got the reward through the bug didn't put in any effort.
Most guild did the GLTQ non stop for the entire time but simply didn't have the gems or energy regeneration to get even close to finishing.

If you don't like it, well too bad and i hope that gree fixes it for you next time you sorry ass whiners :D

The same person who throws around the word "retards" as an insult to Gree and feels that is appropriate.

[Erageous]

Look, to those of you in the top guilds who spent hundreds if not thousands to finish this quest, gree will toss something your way as always to appease you. You know that's true. Gree has changed war rewards when they weren't to the top guilds liking and they will continue to try and appease you. But if you think they will remove the reward, I have 2 words: Sky Pirate. Anyone who has been playing long enough remembers that debacle.

[Jomama1]

I think they can change bonuses after the fact on server side - they did so with a PVP a few cycles back.

This means cleanest fix is to just move bonus from wrapper to 30/30. Those who didn't earn can keep the base unit but only earners get the bonus.

[Lord Vyper]

BTW big thx to all the 'earners' that shared the reward with weaker guilds - well knowing that they will still stay much stronger than all others and that there are things that count more in this game - like a great community and having fun plying the game. I think all guilds that got this gift are still far from beating top 10 (pretty sure some didn't even realize what happened when a friendly whale jumped in to help with EB :) )

Like I said before: Main problem was that this GLTQ needed too much energy so that most guilds couldn't even get close to finish. I don't care about a fix of the reward but please change also the energy needed for LTQs so that more guilds have a target. Not asking for finishing gem-free but to be able to get close.

[Schar]

I think you missed the point. I don't know a single guild that didn't take advantage of the multi-kill in RB. Or any of the glitches that have been apart of the game in the past. It has always been that an energy quest has been doable (without gems) as long as you were super active.

I completely get this. The last few LTQs (i & g) have been a blatant money grab. No subtlety here. Especially when you factor in the elimination of potions as any form of reward. And the new equipment that is a must buy if you have any chance of completing the EB.

[Saint-BEL]

The same person who throws around the word "retards" as an insult to Gree and feels that is appropriate.

I'm so happy you remember me, here is a balloon for ya.

[BeastMode...on]

I'm so happy you remember me, here is a balloon for ya.

your posts become less relevant daily

[truthteller]

The same person who throws around the word "retards" as an insult to Gree and feels that is appropriate.


your posts become less relevant daily

Yeap, Saint-BEL's post are less relevant, while yours (examples above) bring to the forum so much insignt :rolleyes:

TIP: there is a ignore option you can use and will never have to see post from those you do not like :cool:

[BeastMode...on]

Yeap, Saint-BEL's post are less relevant, while yours (examples above) bring to the forum so much insignt :rolleyes:

TIP: there is a ignore option you can use and will never have to see post from those you do not like :cool:

and done...

[Jomama1]

And now with a bog ITQ those who did the GLTQ are doubly screwed because they put off trials. Between this, long wars nobody wants, terrible hrb, gem buildings, this game has completely gone into the toilet.

[Sim]

And now with a bog IlTQ those who did the GLTQ are doubly screwed because they put off trials. Between this, long wars nobody wants, terrible hrb, gem buildings, this game has completely gone into the toilet.

How true. *profanity removed* game

[Jomama1]

Any answer Gree????

[Schar]

Any answer Gree????
please tell me that was a rhetorical question?

[Thick Gibbon]

All of you that are complaining about this are absolute hypocrites. Literally everybody who is in a top 200 guild has "cheated" in this game. Whether it be multiple boss kills or energy glitches.

Now you are asking for something to change because you didn't know about a new gap in the programming? Come off it.

I appreciate that when you are spending you own money then things can get emotive but if you are spending £1000s of pounds on this game it means you either have more money and time than sense, or you need to seek help for addiction.

[[rudy]]

I appreciate that when you are spending you own money then things can get emotive but if you are spending £1000s of pounds on this game it means you either have more money and time than sense, or you need to seek help for addiction.

Or both? [the rest here is garbage because it doesn't allow me to post less than 10 characters]

[Jomama1]

If some guilds hadn't paid for that prize nobody would not have gotten it. There is no other mistake in programming that has ever worked that way. Do you normally expect stuff to be given you for free that others pay for? Show me one example of a previous glitch that worked that way before you call those who paid for that prize hypocrites.

Fact is many gemmers have quit over this. Not good for ka.

[Saint-BEL]

Fact is many gemmers have quit over this. Not good for ka.

The fact that KA is so vulnerable to a small group of heavy gemmers in comparison to its entire player base is not good for KA.

Although it obviously is a nasty sting to know many have used real currency for nothing, you are still complaining over nothing.
Cause lets be perfectly honest, if you had know about this bug. Some guilds still would have to finish and more people would have asked for wrapper prize from that few guilds.
If they refuse to jump, other guilds would still have to use gems as well and we would end up the same as we are now.

[Jomama1]

It's easily fixed - switch the bonus from wrapper to 30/30 unit. Done.

We didn't want to know about the bug earlier - we wanted the bug not to be there. But since it was there - we just want it fixed.

Of course it would have been much better to just have a GLTQ that was doable without massive gems....

[Jnsolberg]

Since we no longer have any Mods, the wrapper unit has been removed from those who didn't complete the GLTQ

[plavine]

I think you missed the point. I don't know a single guild that didn't take advantage of the multi-kill in RB. Or any of the glitches that have been apart of the game in the past. It has always been that an energy quest has been doable (without gems) as long as you were super active. If you put in the work, you could get the reward. The use of gems was merely a means to get done faster or play catchup. That is no longer the case. Energy quests now require gems to finish. So I can completely understand why those that put in the work/gems to finish are pissed off. Those that did not put in the work are getting the prize for free.

I always wondered why players had messages on their walls not to kill the raid boss . I honestly never knew about raid boss glitch

[Jomama1]

You will notice I started this thread. Now those who earned these prizes have lost them. Have you lost your minds????

I guess the message is never gem....

[Scubdog]

Nope..... Message is, don't be a hypocrite.

First rule of fight club is:

[Vile Lynn]

You will notice I started this thread. Now those who earned these prizes have lost them. Have you lost your minds????

I guess the message is never gem....

What do you mean 'lost them'? Like GREE removed units with no notice or exchange?

[Jomama1]

Yes - Gree removed them - but later put them back after we noticed.

[Jerusalem]

Jomama, reading this thread and your posts, in particular, totally amuses me. You're like a neurotic buffoon fixated on a bunch of pixels, as though it's life or death. If money, or rather the fear of wasting gems/money, is so important to you, then your time playing this game has been acutely and grossly misspent. Get a life, brother. Or develop another pixellated persona in a different game. Until then, you'll continue to invite ridicule and, worse, pity.

[belgario]

Jomama, reading this thread and your posts, in particular, totally amuses me. You're like a neurotic buffoon fixated on a bunch of pixels, as though it's life or death. If money, or rather the fear of wasting gems/money, is so important to you, then your time playing this game has been acutely and grossly misspent. Get a life, brother. Or develop another pixellated persona in a different game. Until then, you'll continue to invite ridicule and, worse, pity.

Marquis, when were you in FiB?? I didn't know that. I thought you were good and retired now? If so, why do you even care what we are talking about, much less care to chat about a game you have long since abandoned? I know I should just leave well enough alone, but there is no sense in talking trash...unless...

[Jomama1]

Jomama, reading this thread and your posts, in particular, totally amuses me. You're like a neurotic buffoon fixated on a bunch of pixels, as though it's life or death. If money, or rather the fear of wasting gems/money, is so important to you, then your time playing this game has been acutely and grossly misspent. Get a life, brother. Or develop another pixellated persona in a different game. Until then, you'll continue to invite ridicule and, worse, pity.

Wow - are you really so lonely and sad that you need to attack me like this? The silly part is that Waza strongly encouraged me to make this successful effort - so I guess your attack on me is also an attack on Waza....

[Uberfauker]

Jomama, reading this thread and your posts, in particular, totally amuses me. You're like a neurotic buffoon fixated on a bunch of pixels, as though it's life or death. If money, or rather the fear of wasting gems/money, is so important to you, then your time playing this game has been acutely and grossly misspent. Get a life, brother. Or develop another pixellated persona in a different game. Until then, you'll continue to invite ridicule and, worse, pity.

Only one “L” in pixelated Marquis :p


Marquis, when were you in FiB?? I didn't know that. I thought you were good and retired now? If so, why do you even care what we are talking about, much less care to chat about a game you have long since abandoned? I know I should just leave well enough alone, but there is no sense in talking trash...unless...

Marquis was never in FIB…oh wait, yes he was...never mind...my bad. :rolleyes:


Wow - are you really so lonely and sad that you need to attack me like this? The silly part is that Waza strongly encouraged me to make this successful effort - so I guess your attack on me is also an attack on Waza....

I recommend viewing Marquis’s comment as sage advice rather than an attack. At least that’s how I read it to be… You should read one of his books; Sage advice from the stagiest of the sages or A Sager's guide to the galaxy…

Also, I don’t think Waza would care much; he’s too busy trying on speedos so he can work on his end of summer tan. ;)

[Jomama1]

Sage advice??? From someone who apparently doesn't even play and thus could have no actual insight into what happened here??? Having never been a founder, he is also likely unaware of the responsibility for caring for your players interests. I will offer him a little pity for whatever dark unhappiness led him to jump in here.


Look - this was a success story - Gree actually fixed a major error - and it wasn't my obsession -there were many players across top ten who felt completely ripped off and many of their founders including Waza (where Marquis is from) asked me to press Gree hard on this. And more importantly, I made a promise to my guild that I kept. Its one reason FMB stays full while other guilds struggle for players. Just because I had the balls to take an unpopular stand (those who got it free weren't happy) does not mean I am drawing ridicule or pity. Quite the contrary. It was a kick in the balls when Gree then took the units away from those who earned them, but that too was fixed.

This game is likely coming to an end. Attacking people who did nothing to you doesn't accomplish anything Marquis. I didn't have any negative opinion of you before today, but I am sadly disappointed. You dishonor the guilds you were in.

[belgario]

Sage advice??? From someone who apparently doesn't even play and thus could have no actual insight into what happened here??? Having never been a founder, he is also likely unaware of the responsibility for caring for your players interests. I will offer him a little pity for whatever dark unhappiness led him to jump in here.


Look - this was a success story - Gree actually fixed a major error - and it wasn't my obsession -there were many players across top ten who felt completely ripped off and many of their founders including Waza (where Marquis is from) asked me to press Gree hard on this. And more importantly, I made a promise to my guild that I kept. Its one reason FMB stays full while other guilds struggle for players. Just because I had the balls to take an unpopular stand (those who got it free weren't happy) does not mean I am drawing ridicule or pity. Quite the contrary. It was a kick in the balls when Gree then took the units away from those who earned them, but that too was fixed.

This game is likely coming to an end. Attacking people who did nothing to you doesn't accomplish anything Marquis. I didn't have any negative opinion of you before today, but I am sadly disappointed. You dishonor the guilds you were in.

Though I am no longer in top 10, I agree with Jo. We made a strong stand in GoV once the glitch in those GLTQs was made apparent. No one would be allowed in who had gotten the big GLTQ prizes as we wanted to finish it ourselves without the "help" of those who had already gotten it (by good or ill means). Some of us still enjoy the game when Gree fixes it or doesn't completely screw it up. I agree it is on its last leg. There is a problem in EVERY event/war/whatever...but we take from it what we can. Now a minor spender, I enjoy what I can playing free for the most part. Everyone else can as well...enjoy it while it lasts

[Thick Gibbon]

P
Sage advice??? From someone who apparently doesn't even play and thus could have no actual insight into what happened here??? Having never been a founder, he is also likely unaware of the responsibility for caring for your players interests. I will offer him a little pity for whatever dark unhappiness led him to jump in here.


Look - this was a success story - Gree actually fixed a major error - and it wasn't my obsession -there were many players across top ten who felt completely ripped off and many of their founders including Waza (where Marquis is from) asked me to press Gree hard on this. And more importantly, I made a promise to my guild that I kept. Its one reason FMB stays full while other guilds struggle for players. Just because I had the balls to take an unpopular stand (those who got it free weren't happy) does not mean I am drawing ridicule or pity. Quite the contrary. It was a kick in the balls when Gree then took the units away from those who earned them, but that too was fixed.

This game is likely coming to an end. Attacking people who did nothing to you doesn't accomplish anything Marquis. I didn't have any negative opinion of you before today, but I am sadly disappointed. You dishonor the guilds you were in.

How are your balls now? You put them on the line and then got kicked in them. Must be sore, non?

[Jomama1]

Nah - they are fine - the issue was dead until Marquis crawled out from under his rock. :=)

[Alexius]

Is this where the line for the free Southwest Airlines tickets begins? No? Oh my bad ��������