happy members..

[TZora]

one of the mods here mentioned, "one of my forum goals is to keep happy members and happy forum".

what about the 'not so happy members'? what about the disgrunteled? what about the pissed off? sweep em away? :(

[Max Power]

The level of moderation on this board is exponentially more severe that any forum I have seen in the 20 years that forums have existed, and I have been members of quite a few. They even use grade school slogans like "naming and shaming" at this point, as if we are all 12 years old. Now they close threads for slight scope creep, minimal sarcasm, hell, even if a question is answered they close it proactively just in case anybody says something down the road.

I honestly don't get it. Is this what a business wants for their customers? A vacant forum, the equivalent of a hotel bar, where the occasional passer by strolls in but quickly leaves because of the vibe? If that is their goal, they achieved it in spades. I started another thread specifically about this, with a lot less detail, of course, and it achieved the goal with remarkable efficiency. In it, nobody swore, nobody said anything terribly mean, there was no naming and shaming, and no less than four mods weighed in, the last one closing it. That is EXACTLY what I was talking about.

In the past, I have been fairly critical of people coming here strictly to whine about rules of the game, not getting their prizes, complaining of the cost etc. It was pretty bad at times, and some people had to go. I thought the mods were very fair, if not leniant, and did a very good job of biting their lip. Then the mods just went away, and we got no answers to anything. Now? It's a freaking ghost town. It is so over moderated I am not sure why I come here any more. 2, maybe 3 new topics a day? No new posts for hours on end? This is not an offline chat app issue. This is a mods treating people like children issue. You've killed your forum.

I hope Gree sees this as constructive, although with the actions I have seen here lately, I highly doubt it. Oh, and now that this place is a ghost town, your are dramatically overstaffed. 4 mods for 3 new threads every day might be a little overkill.

[Dipstik]

On "Naming and Shaming": The rule used to be that you couldn't call out hackers/glitchers/cheaters on the forum. The purpose of the rule was that most of these accusations turned out to be false and the proper action was to report it and let Gree (funzio) sort it out. Then that rule got a cute name: "naming and shaming". Now the scope of that rule has been expanded so far I don't even know what it means anymore.

I've actually been told that quoting someone's post on the forum and responding to it is "naming and shaming" if the original post was dumb enough.

[Weasel]

The level of moderation on this board is exponentially more severe that any forum I have seen in the 20 years that forums have existed, and I have been members of quite a few. They even use grade school slogans like "naming and shaming" at this point, as if we are all 12 years old. Now they close threads for slight scope creep, minimal sarcasm, hell, even if a question is answered they close it proactively just in case anybody says something down the road.

I honestly don't get it. Is this what a business wants for their customers? A vacant forum, the equivalent of a hotel bar, where the occasional passer by strolls in but quickly leaves because of the vibe? If that is their goal, they achieved it in spades. I started another thread specifically about this, with a lot less detail, of course, and it achieved the goal with remarkable efficiency. In it, nobody swore, nobody said anything terribly mean, there was no naming and shaming, and no less than four mods weighed in, the last one closing it. That is EXACTLY what I was talking about.

In the past, I have been fairly critical of people coming here strictly to whine about rules of the game, not getting their prizes, complaining of the cost etc. It was pretty bad at times, and some people had to go. I thought the mods were very fair, if not leniant, and did a very good job of biting their lip. Then the mods just went away, and we got no answers to anything. Now? It's a freaking ghost town. It is so over moderated I am not sure why I come here any more. 2, maybe 3 new topics a day? No new posts for hours on end? This is not an offline chat app issue. This is a mods treating people like children issue. You've killed your forum.

I hope Gree sees this as constructive, although with the actions I have seen here lately, I highly doubt it. Oh, and now that this place is a ghost town, your are dramatically overstaffed. 4 mods for 3 new threads every day might be a little overkill.

I posted essentially a two sentence post stating this in the off-topic marathon thread yesterday. It was removed without a trace in under 10 minutes. I'll probably get in trouble again, but my post read something like, "Does anyone else see the irony in the outcome of 'that thread'? Its demise clearly exemplifies the exact cause of the issue presented."

Gree, if you don't want to have a community forum, shut it down. The heavy handed over moderation has already killed it, and if that was the goal, there really isn't any reason for you to continue wasting resources on it. People can and will provide feedback via CS ticket instead of posting on the forum, so you may wish to consider hiring some extra hands there because tickets are already backlogged. Shutting down the forum should free up the resources required to make additions to the customer support team so there shouldn't be any damage done to the bottom line, if that's of concern.

[Vile Lynn]

Thread rate: EXCELLENT.

I agree 100% with all of the above posts.

[aarondavidsdad]

I agree that there has been over-moderation. There is another element that is killing the forum and that is over-zealous forum members. If there is a person espousing an opinion different from the opinion of experienced members of the forum, that opinion is quickly run down. This is essentially a place where only a handful of very vocal people can have their opinions shared.

[Dipstik]

You have just as much a right to post here as anyone, dad. The thing about putting your opinions out there, means you're offering them for challenge. If you have a point to make, be sure you can back it up with a rational argument and you'll be fine.

[aarondavidsdad]

An example of the point I made earlier is in regard to accomplices. I can say I like accomplices because it rewards active players. Then someone who essentially lives on here will make 8 posts about why my opinion is not worth a crap. I've seen this type of thing repeatedly happen.

Another thing that happens is experienced members get into arguments about the most mundane things. Like "free" gold use versus "paid" gold use or some such thing. This happens all the time. Or the age of forum posters or anything else that is silly and unhelpful.

Recently look at how one of the members of SAS1 is attempting to get answers on the +1 mafia member reward. The posts after are filled with nonsense and vitriol toward SAS1 and the other teams that won the reward.

[Dipstik]

Oh so you're not specifically complaining about anyone "shouting you down." As to the rest of that stuff, welcome to the internet.

[Max Power]

I posted essentially a two sentence post stating this in the off-topic marathon thread yesterday. It was removed without a trace in under 10 minutes. I'll probably get in trouble again, but my post read something like, "Does anyone else see the irony in the outcome of 'that thread'? Its demise clearly exemplifies the exact cause of the issue presented."


That is exactly why I posted it, and what happened is exactly what I expected.

Looks like we are gonna get run outta here together! LOL! Next stop? Amarillo!

[Winnson]

I keep coming back because I am truly amazed at the way the forum works here.

No mods know anything about what is happening with the game, ever, but they are everywhere shutting threads down in a heartbeat. It seems the sole feature of mods on this forum are to shut down threads.

I have never seen anything like it and it truly fascinates me.

[Winnson]

You want discussion go someplace else. If you want your thread locked down, come to the CC forums!

[Clementine]

This forum was allowed to go unmoderated for quite sometime. Folks were allowed to attack and insult others (other members of the community, the company staff, and the company). By having minimal moderation this forum became virtually uninhabitable for users, except for a select few. We saw fewer new members joining, and those that did join were often pushed out by the current members. Seeing this, and wanting this to become a place where all would feel welcome, we knew a change needed to be made. So we added the Forum Moderator program, rewrote the Code of Conduct, and started enforcing the rules more rigorously. This was and continues to be the right decision.

We understand that many of you are deeply passionate about these games and that your frustration is due to the fact that there are many issues in games that you love (or at least enjoy). However, that passion and frustration does not give you the prerogative to continually attack and aggravate each other, the moderators, or the staff. Yes, these forums are here so that you can air your grievances and share your concerns, but they are also here so that you can meet new people, make friends, and have conversations with individuals who share similar interests. Instead of this, we see people being persecuted for differing opinions. We see needless name calling and insults being slung. We see harassment and trolling.

On the subject of "Trolls", myself, Bolt, and Relic have all been working in community for a very long time (between the three of us we have over 30 years experience). We understand that every community will have these types of individuals; they are part of the territory. However, when the behavior of these individuals begin to drive away other community members, or prevent them from participating in the conversation, action must be taken. You have noticed that recently we have clamped down on this kind of behavior. We will not tolerate the inflammatory posts that are meant to do nothing but insult others, or aggravate the volunteer mods or the paid staff. And yes, we have been quicker to lock or remove threads that go significantly off topic. We do this to prevent them from becoming unnecessarily inflammatory. If folks do not want threads to be locked, we ask that you examine why they are being locked, and stop engaging in that type of behavior.

We are working our hardest, every single day, to make this a better place to be for all. While we, the Community Management staff, have no control over the state of the games (we are not Designers, Product Managers, Engineers, or QA), we convey every legitimate issue and concern to the Developers as soon as it comes to our attention. The same is true for our Customer Support staff. Together we work to champion your needs and concerns. Does it mean things will get fixed right away? No, but we will make sure it is not ignored or forgotten.

In regards to the desire and need for more information, we are constantly working to improve the process, get more information in advance, and share more with you, our community. However, it is important to understand that there are times when our hands are tied, when there is a piece of information that you may want but we are unable to share it with you. This is the nature of business.

On a regular basis the Community Management staff receives PMs from community members thanking us for trying to clean up the forums, and for trying to remove the negativity. We also receive messages from community members who ask us to do more, to come down harder on the "trolls". They feel as though they can not participate in the community for fear of being attacked, or bullied. This is not acceptable. This is what we are working to change.

I know that this community is filled with intelligent, passionate, individuals, even if it is sometimes hard to see. It is time we work together, community members, volunteers mods, and Community Management staff, to make this place a better place for all.

[TheJess]

I agree that there has been over-moderation. There is another element that is killing the forum and that is over-zealous forum members. If there is a person espousing an opinion different from the opinion of experienced members of the forum, that opinion is quickly run down. This is essentially a place where only a handful of very vocal people can have their opinions shared.

Valid point. This forum has become overrun with trolling and misinformation by a small number of usual suspects.

[JakeCullen]

To be totally honest, I really don't get the essence of "naming and shaming"...most specifically in this forum. Since it is a violation to post personal information here, be it yours or others, then who is naming and shaming who? Man! Talk about sensitivity!

[Winnson]

Understood about trolling, bullying and attacking others.

But why eliminate anything that is fun or funny as well?

We play games for fun. As soon as I see any hint of fun on a thread here, I know it's immediately going to be shut down.

That is really and truly unusual.

If people are having fun here, why shut it down? That does not make any sense to me at all on a forum about a game we play. I can honestly say I've never seen anything like it.

Fascinating

[Champion24]

I.m with max power on this one.. I used to read this forum every day but I haven't been on in months cos of the over moderating lately.
Fyi new mods stop deleting threads and rewriting peoples comments.
Oh and cc is crashing every 10 seconds on my android. . Fix it please.

[Dipstik]

I really don't care what rules you have, but I hate arbitrary enforcement.

[TheJess]

On a regular basis the Community Management staff receives PMs from community members thanking us for trying to clean up the forums, and for trying to remove the negativity. We also receive messages from community members who ask us to do more, to come down harder on the "trolls". They feel as though they can not participate in the community for fear of being attacked, or bullied. This is not acceptable. This is what we are working to change.



Thank you for your efforts to clean up trolling and bullying on this forum. One of the posts in this thread is a great example of why some new members do not feel comfortable participating, and it is perplexing why some are sanctioned and others are not for such bullying.

[Clementine]

Understood about trolling, bullying and attacking others.

But why eliminate anything that is fun or funny as well?

We play games for fun. As soon as I see any hint of fun on a thread here, I know it's immediately going to be shut down.

That is really and truly unusual.

If people are having fun here, why shut it down? That does not make any sense to me at all on a forum about a game we play. I can honestly say I've never seen anything like it.

Fascinating

Fun can of course be had, and we do want it to be had. However fun should never consist of attacking, insulting, or bullying others. Nor should it come at the expense of others feeling safe and comfortable.

[Clementine]

I.m with max power on this one.. I used to read this forum every day but I haven't been on in months cos of the over moderating lately.
Fyi new mods stop deleting threads and rewriting peoples comments.
Oh and cc is crashing every 10 seconds on my android. . Fix it please.

As I stated in my response, we will continue to crack down on certain behaviors, including swearing and insults. A user's post is only ever edited if it breaks the Code of Conduct. And threads that are duplicates, or can not be edited to be appropriate and within the CoC will be removed. As will threads that have spiraled into nothing but inflammatory attacks.

[Clementine]

I really don't care what rules you have, but I hate arbitrary enforcement.

We will continue to enforce to the best of our capabilities. We have a small team of Mods and a small Community Management team. We are unable to be here 24-7 (as much as we would like to be), and some things will get through from time to time.

If a user continues to break the CoC, we will come down harder on that user than someone who breaks the CoC for the first time.

[Weasel]

http://img.pandawhale.com/43592-simpsons-abandon-thread-gif--g-7FG6.gif

[Vile Lynn]

lol, one of my fav episodes!

"eep!"

[Dipstik]

I lol'd, weasel.

[Sandukan]

With 30 years experience I am very surprised that Clementine does not realize how counterproductive heavy moderation has on a community.

I could create a software program that moderates this forum with more nuance than the sledgehammer moderation that goes on here daily.
Common sense just isn't that common.

[Clementine]

With 30 years experience I am very surprised that Clementine does not realize how counterproductive heavy moderation has on a community.

I could create a software program that moderates this forum with more nuance than the sledgehammer moderation that goes on here daily.
Common sense just isn't that common.

I just explained why we are taking this approach. Please take a moment to read again.

[Max Power]

Well, Clem, we have been heard. Better no traffic than bad traffic I guess. Sadly, that often means throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Now that you know where we are coming from, I won't bring it up anymore, I will just assume the present level of moderation is what you want and what it will be moving forward.

Best of luck in all your ventures.

[Sandukan]

I just explained why we are taking this approach. Please take a moment to read again.

I read what you wrote and appreciate that you want to create an inviting environment for everyone. But clearly by the forum traffic your actions have accomplished quite the opposite of what you intended.

When I trained individuals in crisis management and conflict resolution in the workplace the predominant factor that dictated implementation of any solution strategy was impact on company goal and objectives.
Once a strategy was implemented real world testing required that we be flexible enough to course correct.

You seem to have made a decision on how to proceed and refuse to adjust even when faced with overwhelming evidence suggesting your methods are flawed.

[legalious]

When I trained individuals in crisis management and conflict resolution in the workplace the predominant factor that dictated implementation of any solution strategy was impact on company goal and objectives.
Once a strategy was implemented real world testing required that we be flexible enough to course correct.

You seem to have made a decision on how to proceed and refuse to adjust even when faced with overwhelming evidence suggesting your methods are flawed.

The rules are as cut and dry as possible. Your company based strategy might work for inter-office politics but when you apply it to the general public they tend to break the rules, then those rules will be enforced. Not sure how forum Code of Conduct can apply to company goals and objectives as they tend to be another entity entirely. Sure we all strive for better communication and understanding, but that will only go as far when others will abide by those standards.

Users got their warning and infractions but choose to not follow those rules and will end up being banned, as some users stated before that they could care less about those rules. Tread carefully.

[Clementine]

I read what you wrote and appreciate that you want to create an inviting environment for everyone. But clearly by the forum traffic your actions have accomplished quite the opposite of what you intended.

When I trained individuals in crisis management and conflict resolution in the workplace the predominant factor that dictated implementation of any solution strategy was impact on company goal and objectives.
Once a strategy was implemented real world testing required that we be flexible enough to course correct.

You seem to have made a decision on how to proceed and refuse to adjust even when faced with overwhelming evidence suggesting your methods are flawed.

We have taken the approach of less moderation before, and even recently. The thought behind doing this was that perhaps if we come down less harsh on folks, we will see them clean up their behavior naturally. We do not want to censor folks, as censorship leads to further unhappiness and frustration. However, less moderation did not work and we saw people spiral out of control. Posts filled with vitriol and hate. Long time members attacking new folks simply for having a difference of opinion. This is not ok. It is not ok in real life, and it is not ok here on the forums.

It is possible to express frustration and grievances, have fun, and even "smack talk" one another, without bullying individuals.

[Sandukan]

The rules are as cut and dry as possible. Your company based strategy might work for inter-office politics but when you apply it to the general public they tend to break the rules, then those rules will be enforced. Not sure how forum Code of Conduct can apply to company goals and objectives as they tend to be another entity entirely. Sure we all strive for better communication and understanding, but that will only go as far when others will abide by those standards.

Users got their warning and infractions but choose to not follow those rules and will end up being banned, as some users stated before that they could care less about those rules. Tread carefully.

Why did you end your post with "tread carefully"?
Is that supposed to be a warning that I have encroached on some boundary and should check myself?

Conflict resolution works in just about every scenario out there.
My company made millions utilizing these strategies not only in the work place but in schools, government agencies (including neighborhood and police departments) and group conflicts across the globe.
The issues on this forum are not new or particularly intricate.

I can say that you only seem to show up when there is something to enforce. How can you manage a community when you don't build a relationship with those you choose to manage?
How are you equipped to mediate anything when you just show up and lock threads and hand out infractions?

[Clementine]

I can say that you only seem to show up when there is something to enforce. How can you manage a community when you don't build a relationship with those you choose to manage?
How are you equipped to mediate anything when you just show up and lock threads and hand out infractions?

Our Moderators have been continuously attacked and insulted, even when they are just discussing things from a player's point of view (they all still play the game). This has caused many of them to focus their interactions here solely on their Moderation duties, which is unfortunate.

[cooch]

Why did you end your post with "tread carefully"?
Is that supposed to be a warning that I have encroached on some boundary and should check myself?

Conflict resolution works in just about every scenario out there.
My company made millions utilizing these strategies not only in the work place but in schools, government agencies (including neighborhood and police departments) and group conflicts across the globe.
The issues on this forum are not new or particularly intricate.

I can say that you only seem to show up when there is something to enforce. How can you manage a community when you don't build a relationship with those you choose to manage?
How are you equipped to mediate anything when you just show up and lock threads and hand out infractions?

Frankly if a company is poorly managed is how you make a living in the real world. This isn't a crisis even in the forum world

If a company is managed properly they eliminate cancers and folks not working towards mutual success. It's called terminations and a portion of layoffs always includes troubled employees that belong elsewhere or in another position.

If you are referring to collapse of company crisis management well that's over the top for forum and gree

Attrition of forum users is your concern. What type? The type that has taken over the forum versus what it was in the first 18 months of existence?

Conflict resolution in this context would, at best, be gree moderators chatting with the perpetual troublemakers that most people would recognize. Can't reform then they leave on own accord or by gree choice.

People always get over concerned that changes in corporate culture are doomsday scenarios. Same in this forum. If they were that draconian many would have already been banned. To date I don't think one of them has.

[Sandukan]

Our Moderators have been continuously attacked and insulted, even when they are just discussing things from a player's point of view (they all still play the game). This has caused many of them to focus their interactions here solely on their Moderation duties, which is unfortunate.

Insults are never warranted and are unfortunate. Those who partake should be blocked from the privilege of using the forum.
Nevertheless the insults stem from frustration with the game and the lack of information and feedback. Unfortunately you are representatives of the company, albeit in a limited capacity as it pertains to game play.
When people are frustrated they don't want to hear trite or mind boggling inaccurate responses from community managers and moderators, which too often occurs.

What I would say is if light moderation doesn't work and heavy moderation doesn't work how about we follow the Goldie Locks rule?

[Clementine]

Insults are never warranted and are unfortunate. Those who partake should be blocked from the privilege of using the forum.
Nevertheless the insults stem from frustration with the game and the lack of information and feedback. Unfortunately you are representatives of the company, albeit in a limited capacity as it pertains to game play.
When people are frustrated they don't want to hear trite or mind boggling inaccurate responses from community managers and moderators, which too often occurs.

As I mentioned in my original post, we know and understand that much of the insults and negative behavior comes from frustration. But as I also mentioned, this does not give anyone the right to attack, insult, or bully other individuals. If people want to express their frustration with the game, that can be done in a constructive manner. If they have a concern with another individual, then that should be taken to a PM.

[Clementine]

What I would say is if light moderation doesn't work and heavy moderation doesn't work how about we follow the Goldie Locks rule?

No moderation is not an option. Months, maybe even years, of no moderation is what got us here.

[Sandukan]

As I mentioned in my original post, we know and understand that much of the insults and negative behavior comes from frustration. But as I also mentioned, this does not give anyone the right to attack, insult, or bully other individuals. If people want to express their frustration with the game, that can be done in a constructive manner. If they have a concern with another individual, then that should be taken to a PM.

Agreed. Insults are unacceptable.

[Sandukan]

No moderation is not an option. Months, maybe even years, of no moderation is what got us here.

I was never advocating no moderation. Moderating is not all or nothing. It's a continuum.
Goldie Locks liked her porridge not too hot or not too cold.

I wouldn't agree that no moderation got us here. Just a few blowhards who can easily be silenced.
This site used to be very informative and entertaining. I swear. I witnessed it.

[Clementine]

I was never advocating no moderation. Moderating is not all or nothing. It's a continuum.
Goldie Locks liked her porridge not too hot or not too cold.

I wouldn't agree that no moderation got us here. Just a few blowhards who can easily be silenced.
This site used to be very informative and entertaining. I swear. I witnessed it.

I believe that, and I wish I had been here during those days. We have historically been very hesitant to ban, and have instead focused on Moderation and the Infraction system. What I think you may be saying is that if those individuals were removed (or quelled), then perhaps heavy moderation wouldn't be needed.

[Red BD]

. [Frustration]... does not give anyone the right to attack, insult, or bully other individuals. If people want to express their frustration with the game, that can be done in a constructive manner. If they have a concern with another individual, then that should be taken to a PM.

I honestly don't get it. I don't read every post, but have seen very few which I would consider "insulting," and frankly none posted by members that I would consider "bullying" or could make anyone feel "unsafe" (rationally).
Someone called me "an idiot." I don't think I knew it until the thread had been shut down. I don't know if that was part of the reason for the lock. It didn't bother me, but what did bother me is having to spend half an hour to figure out the deal with PM (most trying to figure out how to read his response).
Funny thing is that the very brief private exchanged raised an issue which, IMHO, went to the very core of the nature of the game. I at least would have been interested in the thoughts of other members. Had the tread been left open the conversation could have evolved for the better.
The better parts of everything often come after a little turmoil.
People shouldn't care what strangers they will never meet think of them. I assume there is some rationale as to why we are treated like Grade (Elementary, Primary) schoolers, but I do not think most in the Forum are near that innocent or young. (Demographical Data would be interesting, but I'ld assume privileged).

The only posters in this Forum who bully anyone, in my opinion, are certain moderators. I feel bullied by them. It took me over a minute to write the last 2 sentences.

[Clementine]

I honestly don't get it. I don't read every post, but have seen very few which I would consider "insulting," and frankly none posted by members that I would consider "bullying" or could make anyone feel "unsafe" (rationally).
Someone called me "an idiot." I don't think I knew it until the thread had been shut down. I don't know if that was part of the reason for the lock. It didn't bother me, but what did bother me is having to spend half an hour to figure out the deal with PM (most trying to figure out how to read his response).
Funny thing is that the very brief private exchanged raised an issue which, IMHO, went to the very core of the nature of the game. I at least would have been interested in the thoughts of other members. Had the tread been left open the conversation could have evolved for the better.
The better parts of everything often come after a little turmoil.
People shouldn't care what strangers they will never meet think of them. I assume there is some rationale as to why we are treated like Grade (Elementary, Primary) schoolers, but I do not think most in the Forum are near that innocent or young. (Demographical Data would be interesting, but I'ld assume privileged).

The only posters in this Forum who bully anyone, in my opinion, are certain moderators. I feel bullied by them. It took me over a minute to write the last 2 sentences.

What one person feels is bullying may differ from another person. So while you may feel that there are no posts that are "bullying" others, many feel differently, including the staff and Mods. Some people have thicker skin and thus can more easily brush things off than others who are more sensitive. People are different, and thats ok. It is up to us, the Community Managers, to define what is and is not ok, and enforce that. Just because you disagree with whether or not a Moderator should close a thread, doesn't mean they are bullying you. Nor does it mean they are bullying you when they post a reminder about following the Code of Conduct.

As I mentioned in my first post on this thread, we have had multiple people reach out to us via PM to let us know they feel uncomfortable due to the way others are treating them. There have been some who have said "oh it's the Internet, get over it" as though that excuses the behavior and means they can treat others with disrespect. This is not ok. Additionally there is a big difference between saying "you are an idiot" to someone, and having a post filled with vitriol and hateful attacks.

We know that this forum is primarily adults, not children. This means that people should understand how to treat others with respect, understand the power of words, and understand how to interact in an appropriate way.

[cooch]

I honestly don't get it. I don't read every post, but have seen very few which I would consider "insulting," and frankly none posted by members that I would consider "bullying" or could make anyone feel "unsafe" (rationally).
Someone called me "an idiot." I don't think I knew it until the thread had been shut down. I don't know if that was part of the reason for the lock. It didn't bother me, but what did bother me is having to spend half an hour to figure out the deal with PM (most trying to figure out how to read his response).
Funny thing is that the very brief private exchanged raised an issue which, IMHO, went to the very core of the nature of the game. I at least would have been interested in the thoughts of other members. Had the tread been left open the conversation could have evolved for the better.
The better parts of everything often come after a little turmoil.
People shouldn't care what strangers they will never meet think of them. I assume there is some rationale as to why we are treated like Grade (Elementary, Primary) schoolers, but I do not think most in the Forum are near that innocent or young. (Demographical Data would be interesting, but I'ld assume privileged).

The only posters in this Forum who bully anyone, in my opinion, are certain moderators. I feel bullied by them. It took me over a minute to write the last 2 sentences.

Do yourself a favor to understand perspective how how much forum has changed. Do a search for Billionaire. Take a look at what he posted and response by forum members. Hopefully the history goes back several years.

He's an example of what this forum was. He's still in the game but doesn't bother to go to forum because of it's takeover by the a vocal minority

[Dipstik]

You mean the mods? I think they might be a majority soon :)

[TheJess]

Do yourself a favor to understand perspective how how much forum has changed. Do a search for Billionaire. Take a look at what he posted and response by forum members. Hopefully the history goes back several years.

He's an example of what this forum was. He's still in the game but doesn't bother to go to forum because of it's takeover by the a vocal minority

Helpful constructive forum participants, such as The Billionaire, seem to be a thing of the past in this forum. Now, if you dare to post, you are bullied almost instantly and told by over-zealous forum member that posting is an invitation to be attacked.

[Dipstik]

Jess, could you cite an example of what you're talking about please?

[JakeCullen]

Alright moderators, since you seemingly ignored my question in the first page, here's the second one: Since you enforce everyone to be nice to everybody, (which I believe I tried to abide by regardless of rules); and being this is a game forum (for game info and advisories I would assume); and you distinguished mods carry our words to Gree (and vice versa), my question: Is (or was) Gree nice to us?

[Thatkidyouknow]

There's better companies to community manage for and I bet they pay more....believe it or not. What this forum has turned into isn't just from no moderation, the play style of the game makes it near impossible to moderate in game. So many of what happens on the forums happens in game. Other games are much easier to manage. Look at some of the biggest mine craft servers forums. The moderators names mean something, not just an orange tint, but when a staff member says something on forum, you know not to mess with them.

[TheJess]

I've read through Relic's detailed postings in this thread, and appreciate taking the time to so clearly explain the moderation goals. Seems reasonable, and good luck to them in seeing if a more enjoyable and informative forum can be achieved.

[Gingeasian]

A big reason that these forums are now a ghost town for the most part is simply that the game is not what it used to be. I'm sure most of Gree's staff and certainly the players have noticed. When I started playing Crime City a little over two years ago the game was far more competitive and expensive. You couldn't get near a top 10 syndicate without scoring at least 300K IP, top 25 was 125K, and top 50-75 was about 50-85K IP. And this was when the only IP mods that existed were the syn bonuses and 1 3% IP mod awarded the second war to the top 10. Now 100K can get you top 10 and that's with the Tildas 20% IP mod.

A big reason why so many spent so much was the rivalry and the appeal to the game. What is now called trolling, naming and shaming, and bullying used to be good old rivalries. That's what fueled this game. SAS and FC pushing to knock down the once feared Indians didn't come from nothing, it was the rivalry and often the true hatred for the other team. When SAS had their falling out it became a rivalry with Rouges that had everything from stealing big players to hacker accusations that got everyone's opinion involved. Even amongst the top 10-25, 10th and 11th place we almost always decided by the very last battles, same as 25th and 26th. Leading to even more rivalries.

Sadly those kind of threads could never last these dad as they would be shut down within minutes of a mod seeing it. Gone are the days of 20+ page threads with hundreds of comments of everyone going back and forth and how to deal with hackers and who was and who wasn't. Now, mention the word hacker and the thread is deleted. While hacker accusations and naming and shaming other syndicates might not be nice all the time, they are what helped your game profit so much.

Another big reason many don't visit these forums anymore is the lack of information provided. With all due respect Clemintine I find it extremely difficult to believe that the mods and community managers are helping provide as much information to the players as possible. When's the last time we saw a winners list? A goals and prizes list for an LTQ? Maybe even a Epic or Raid boss prize guide? Months. All of these simply disappeared when Assault and Flathery (agreed by most the best mod this forum has seen) was transfered elsewhere. If she could provide all this why can't someone else?

[HavingFun]

Tread carefully.

This sentence makes me feel uncomfortable to post here and creates a bullying atmosphere. Please edit to something more friendly. Thank you

[Weasel]

This sentence makes me feel uncomfortable to post here and creates a bullying atmosphere. Please edit to something more friendly. Thank you

I agree with this post.

[Dipstik]

I've been pretty much afraid to post anything on this thread. The lines are nonexistent.

[Weasel]

I've been pretty much afraid to post anything on this thread. The lines are nonexistent.

I agree with this post.

[Kitty McPurr]

This forum's atmosphere is a direct result of the game experience...

A game presented to players full of mistakes, glitches and direct exploitation will result in a forum full of bitter, complaining and unsatisfied customers.

[Kitty McPurr]

BTW...can this thread be stickied? Lol.

[Red BD]

I've been pretty much afraid to post anything on this thread. The lines are nonexistent.

This is exactly what I meant when I said above that I felt bullied by moderators. That is not sarcastic. It is true. In a civil, adult conversation I would politely go on, explain my feelings further and perhaps make polite suggestions on how to resolve what is obviously a problem.
But with each attempt to do so, I think "no, no, no." They might see this as "shaming," or is a suggestion the same as telling moderators or Gree how to do their job? And then I start to wonder... Never mind. It isn't worth it.
I'ld be interested in why moderators et al have concluded that this forum they agree is primarily adult feel that we all must cowtow to the youngest common denominator for etiquette's sake, but I honestly guess that's none of my- or our business. Seriously.

[Sandukan]

This sentence makes me feel uncomfortable to post here and creates a bullying atmosphere. Please edit to something more friendly. Thank you

I felt very threatened by that comment actually.
I've never felt threatened on this forum before.

The threat wasn't even veiled. Garden variety thuggery.
Yet Clementine ignored it......

[Weasel]

I felt very threatened by that comment actually.
I've never felt threatened on this forum before.

The threat wasn't even veiled. Garden variety thuggery.
Yet Clementine ignored it......

I strongly and positively agree with this post.

[Kitty McPurr]

Can we start an over/under on the number of posts to this thread before it is deemed "unconstructive" and "lockable?"

My bid is 72.

[Red BD]

This forum's atmosphere is a direct result of the game experience...

A game presented to players full of mistakes, glitches and direct exploitation will result in a forum full of bitter, complaining and unsatisfied customers.

Well, to each his/her own (as the CM, or whatever) sort of said before. For me it's the attitude of those moderating the Forum which has, to a large extent, messed with a good game.
"Play what we got and say ya loves it- I yam what I yam and dat's all I yam
And if you don't like it, leave it."---- to paraphrase one unknown (un)named moderator in a post a couple weeks ago when she/he stated "this isn't America so we don't buy the free speech rigamorole." ( well words to that effect.

Ban me or whatever for asking this and all you dream it might subversively imply, but if you were a business is that what you would essentially tell your customers to "keep (them) happy"?

[legalious]

For me it's the attitude of those moderating the Forum which has, to a large extent, messed with a good game.

I doubt this is the case. We all want more thing from the game, but the Forum moderation does not actually change what's in game. *Cough* Smelting Event.

I for one love new events and fixes to the game. Makes me happy that stuff works.

[sister morphine]

I doubt this is the case. We all want more thing from the game, but the Forum moderation does not actually change what's in game.
It may not change what's in game but the style of moderation sets the tone for this forum. If new people come here and see mods closing down threads left, right and centre it leaves an unpleasant taste in the mouth.


Users got their warning and infractions but choose to not follow those rules and will end up being banned, as some users stated before that they could care less about those rules. Tread carefully.
This, which you posted earlier in this thread comes across like some over-zealous police officer. Spoken English and written English are two very different animals, and you should not generally write in the same way you might speak face to face.

The volunteer mods do a job which I'm sure is very valuable to Gree, but whilst they may not be employees of the company they are representing them on these forums and should bear that in mind. You are servants of the community here, not our overseers. A lighter touch would be welcomed by the vast majority.

[cynicalmofo]

In the interests of providing a balanced opinion, I'd just like to add that you can find more entertainment by plucking your armpit hair than reading these forums as they are.

Back in the old days, this was Crime City - Full of bugs and based on rivalries between players
It became Crime City - Full of bugs and based on rivalries between syndicates
Now it's Crime City - Full of bugs and based on rivalries between players and Gree where syndicates join together to "beat" the company.

Congratulations Gree - Another game starts struggling. It's like you never learn.

Might I suggest a re-brand?

You could call the game Friendly City, keep filtering out profanity everywhere and stop using acronyms that suggest swearing or bad language. You could then change the map jobs so instead of robbing, you could help old ladies cross the road. You could even remove the syndicates altogether and have everyone playing on the same team in an effort to exploit the system put in place by lazy developers (This would only work if you had lazy developers, which obviously, you don't)

[Dat Guy]

I doubt this is the case. We all want more thing from the game, but the Forum moderation does not actually change what's in game.

I used to see this forum as an extension of the game. It was a fun place where you could come get information on strategies and ideas on how to best utilize resources. I would most often have both open at the same time. You could discuss issues of the game with fellow gamers. (as someone said earlier search for Billionaire's old posts) We could even engage in some friendly trash talking. (search for Molly's Voice) And yes moderators would give out information (yes Weasel, sometimes it was wrong info) and to let us know that problems were known to exist and they are being sorted.

Now it seems that we go days with nary a peep from any forum moderator. We voice all sorts of issues and concerns about various aspects of game play that are broken or not functioning properly. Then the moderators finally show up and just start swinging Mjölnir around as if they were Thor. (PBUH) Then just as rapidly, they disappear. No acknowledgement of our concerns or questions, just, "You're banned, you're banned, you're banned, you're cool, you're banned". "Locking this thread, this one, this one, deleting this one, and.... it's gone". (the past few days have been much better and I have seen posts thanking moderators for taking time to actually hold conversations with us)

We just had a three day LTQ and not one single thread about it. (I know LTQs have been terrible for a long time, but this one seemed to have decent awards) Two years ago there would have been multiple threads about an LTQ (yes they were more meaningful back then) with many people weighing on strategies and where to find the best items. Now nothing. Crickets.

Even 'Happy gaming mate" Spiderman seems to have left the forums.

In my very humble opinion the over moderation of the forums, the over lapping and often broken events, the escalating costs, the lack of any useful information, the baiting and switching and the way customers are treated has killed this forum and seriously damaged the game.

PS is Engram still alive?
PSS Captain Torgue Rulz!

[Dipstik]

You know I JUST REALIZED this morning that the ominous "Tread Carefully" post was directed at me. How could I have not seen that, you ask? Because I didn't post anything even CLOSE to objectionable!


I really don't care what rules you have, but I hate arbitrary enforcement.

You really see that as a problem? It says I'll FOLLOW whatever rules you have as long as they're objective and enforced evenly. Sheesh.

[Captain Torgue]

This forum was allowed to go unmoderated for quite sometime. Folks were allowed to attack and insult others (other members of the community, the company staff, and the company). By having minimal moderation this forum became virtually uninhabitable for users, except for a select few. We saw fewer new members joining, and those that did join were often pushed out by the current members. Seeing this, and wanting this to become a place where all would feel welcome, we knew a change needed to be made. So we added the Forum Moderator program, rewrote the Code of Conduct, and started enforcing the rules more rigorously. This was and continues to be the right decision.

We understand that many of you are deeply passionate about these games and that your frustration is due to the fact that there are many issues in games that you love (or at least enjoy). However, that passion and frustration does not give you the prerogative to continually attack and aggravate each other, the moderators, or the staff. Yes, these forums are here so that you can air your grievances and share your concerns, but they are also here so that you can meet new people, make friends, and have conversations with individuals who share similar interests. Instead of this, we see people being persecuted for differing opinions. We see needless name calling and insults being slung. We see harassment and trolling.

On the subject of "Trolls", myself, Bolt, and Relic have all been working in community for a very long time (between the three of us we have over 30 years experience). We understand that every community will have these types of individuals; they are part of the territory. However, when the behavior of these individuals begin to drive away other community members, or prevent them from participating in the conversation, action must be taken. You have noticed that recently we have clamped down on this kind of behavior. We will not tolerate the inflammatory posts that are meant to do nothing but insult others, or aggravate the volunteer mods or the paid staff. And yes, we have been quicker to lock or remove threads that go significantly off topic. We do this to prevent them from becoming unnecessarily inflammatory. If folks do not want threads to be locked, we ask that you examine why they are being locked, and stop engaging in that type of behavior.

We are working our hardest, every single day, to make this a better place to be for all. While we, the Community Management staff, have no control over the state of the games (we are not Designers, Product Managers, Engineers, or QA), we convey every legitimate issue and concern to the Developers as soon as it comes to our attention. The same is true for our Customer Support staff. Together we work to champion your needs and concerns. Does it mean things will get fixed right away? No, but we will make sure it is not ignored or forgotten.

In regards to the desire and need for more information, we are constantly working to improve the process, get more information in advance, and share more with you, our community. However, it is important to understand that there are times when our hands are tied, when there is a piece of information that you may want but we are unable to share it with you. This is the nature of business.

On a regular basis the Community Management staff receives PMs from community members thanking us for trying to clean up the forums, and for trying to remove the negativity. We also receive messages from community members who ask us to do more, to come down harder on the "trolls". They feel as though they can not participate in the community for fear of being attacked, or bullied. This is not acceptable. This is what we are working to change.

I know that this community is filled with intelligent, passionate, individuals, even if it is sometimes hard to see. It is time we work together, community members, volunteers mods, and Community Management staff, to make this place a better place for all.

Too long DIDNT READ!!!

[Max Power]

This, which you posted earlier in this thread comes across like some over-zealous police officer. Spoken English and written English are two very different animals, and you should not generally write in the same way you might speak face to face.

The volunteer mods do a job which I'm sure is very valuable to Gree, but whilst they may not be employees of the company they are representing them on these forums and should bear that in mind. You are servants of the community here, not our overseers. A lighter touch would be welcomed by the vast majority.

This. The "tread carefully" comment just doesn't read well. Frankly, as a very adult business professional with more years in a professional workplace that most here have been alive, much less the moderators, this level of condescending finger wagging really leaves a sour taste and carries a on a consistent tone from this individual as in past posts.

And someone somewhere made a point how moderators, or Gree employees, provide absolutely nothing in terms of information to these forums like Assault & Flattery used to do. It's not just a courtesy, if people actually knew what the prizes would be along the path to the final of all these events, people might actually spend more on the game. As it exists, moderators are here to scold and ban. No other reason. That is not a healthy environment, and I have never seen it like this in 20 years of visiting forums. Especially for a customer based site.

[Ninja☆Smoke]

I can understand a little about both side of argument, I'm moderator on a different unrelated outdoor forum. That being said I've played CC long enough to remember Gingerbread house and Pumpkin/Football Bombs lmfao. I lurked on this site for almost 18 months, before making an account. No doubt it has changed significantly, it used be mutual respect between players and moderators. This forum used to be valuable source of information, getting to know rivals, make friends or represent your syndicate. I believe in freedom of speech, but when you pop up and read any random thread, a positive topic quickly become negative in the blink of an eye. Usually the same suspects, like many have said if you have different opinion than others, you are quickly cornered and the sharks feed. I really do hope it can get back to the way it was a year so ago, unfortunately once you lose something it's very difficult to get "THAT" back to it's original form.

[Weasel]

I am surprised this hasn't landed in the off-topic section yet. Nothing about this thread has anything directly to do with Crime City, or any Gree title.

Are people just visiting the forum for the first time supposed to feel welcome when there is a thread several pages long exprssing concerns about the forum atmosphere by what appears to be nearly evey post conatined within it?

And a warning to tread carefully, given the way it was... If I were visiting this forum for the first time, I think I would choose to not tread here at all. (See post #23 in this thread.)

[Ninja☆Smoke]

Yeah It sounds heavy-handed...Weasel.

[Clementine]

Thank you for your feedback about the Moderators. We have provided them with a reminder to not be so heavy handed in their communications. It can be tough when frustrations and tensions are high. We (the CM team) are going to practice this as well.

As for the comments about "not trying our hardest to provide information to you guys". This is untrue. We are constantly talking with the Developers, asking questions, trying to get answers, and determining what can be shared with the Community. We (the Community Management team) are constantly pushing for more transparency. However, as I mentioned, sometimes our hands our tied.

Finally, we do understand that the forums are reflective of the state of the game(s), and that the state has declined in the last months. That being said, it is still possible to air your frustrations and grievances in a way that doesn't require you to attack/bully others, or make inflammatory remarks simply for the sake of "stirring the pot".

[Winnson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCQ0vDAbF7s

[Dipstik]

No talking about bands!

[sister morphine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nt7PWtgOPI :)

[Champion24]

I bank each building separately to save banking fees.. just saying.

[Dipstik]

I bank each building separately to save banking fees.. just saying.

That's dedication. I wish I was that patient, but luckily I have enough bank fee reductions that I don't have to worry about paying the fee in one big chunk.

[Weasel]

I bank each building separately to save banking fees.. just saying.

I remember that post. Definitely makes it near impossible to take that individual's posts seriously, colored text or not.

[Champion24]

I remember that post. Definitely makes it near impossible to take that individual's posts seriously, colored text or not.

I lol,ed at the time.. probably wouldn't do it again tho. We were all new here at 1 stage.. I remember the responce the poor guy got tho.

[Vile Lynn]

Dedication is the customer who banks $14 at a time to save a buck.

[Red BD]

I doubt this is the case. We all want more thing from the game, but the Forum moderation does not actually change what's in game. *Cough* Smelting Event.

Dear Moderators: while I do not mind another member calling me an idiot, I really DO object to being called a liar. Oh wait, it was a Moderator telling the Forum I was misrepresenting my opinion! Well, hope I don't get banned for life, but I'm posting this for the HECK of it anyway.

[Red BD]

How, or why, did this thread go from Happy Members to a discussion on banking game cash? Change seems to happen between 75 and 76.

[Weasel]

How, or why, did this thread go from Happy Members to a discussion on banking game cash? Change seems to happen between 75 and 76.

It was a reference to an absurd comment that someone made. This person actually believed paying the 10% bank fee on each building individually saved them cash compared to paying 10% on all of their buildings at once.

The person who posted that now gets to post with green text, so I think bringing up that old post was meant to suggest that certain individuals don't know what they're talking about sometimes, regardless of their level of authority.

And just to CMA, I'm not saying that's true or not, that's just what I think is being suggested with the reference.

[Dipstik]

Lol I must have missed or forgotten that.

[Red BD]

Lol I must have missed or forgotten that.

Clearly far beyond me even with these helpful responses! Maybe that guy who said I'm an idiot had a valid point.
(-:)

[TheJess]

I can understand a little about both side of argument, I'm moderator on a different unrelated outdoor forum. That being said I've played CC long enough to remember Gingerbread house and Pumpkin/Football Bombs lmfao. I lurked on this site for almost 18 months, before making an account. No doubt it has changed significantly, it used be mutual respect between players and moderators. This forum used to be valuable source of information, getting to know rivals, make friends or represent your syndicate. I believe in freedom of speech, but when you pop up and read any random thread, a positive topic quickly become negative in the blink of an eye. Usually the same suspects, like many have said if you have different opinion than others, you are quickly cornered and the sharks feed. I really do hope it can get back to the way it was a year so ago, unfortunately once you lose something it's very difficult to get "THAT" back to it's original form.

Well said.

I appreciate the efforts of some members and mods to make the forum informative again, and to counter balance the unwelcoming over zealous usual suspect ... This thread becoming yet another case in point.

[Kitty McPurr]

Are you guys talking about one shhh Ott....?

No, you couldn't be, he was simply a character from the hit HBO series THE WIRE season 2...seems like a long cross reference to me. You need more lateral work fellas.

[Kitty McPurr]

...But if you were referring to OTT from the HBO series "The Wire", I too agree he should not be voted in to be a union official in any capacity whatsoever...the docks need to be free from idiocy at all times.

HBO The Wire right? That is where this thread has gone?

[Max Powers]

Funny thing, about a month ago I posted a thread about an idea for cc. Nothing sarcastic, nothing hateful. Just an idea for the game. Well turns out they deleted the thread and banned my old account without any warnings, and said I was banned for "spamming". Real classy.

[Vile Lynn]

I think the forum is happy again. :)

[Dipstik]

I am!

#smug

[justjon]

I think the forum is happy again. :)

I agree with this post.

[cooch]

I think the forum is happy again. :)

Just wait for a wild weekend of no supervision like the old days.....that forced employee moderators....remember those episodes? LOL

[Dipstik]

I think (know) those episodes came after people got permanent bans. I strongly suspect if the bans were temporary they would have served them and come back posting under their normal accounts. As I said at the time, I think temp bans are almost always best.

[Vile Lynn]

Stop talking about bands!

[HavingFun]

I think (know) those episodes came after people got permanent bans. I strongly suspect if the bans were temporary they would have served them and come back posting under their normal accounts. As I said at the time, I think temp bans are almost always best.
Agree 100%

[Ant venom]

Agree 100%

Same, agree too

[crime cow]

Stop talking about bands!

I thought they should have invited all of the current and former members of Kiss to their Hall of Fame induction ceremony.

[Ant venom]

I don't think we'll have a weekend without supervision as Sirius is now the supervisor.

[cooch]

I think (know) those episodes came after people got permanent bans. I strongly suspect if the bans were temporary they would have served them and come back posting under their normal accounts. As I said at the time, I think temp bans are almost always best.

Nope. Can think of at least two wild weekends that resulted in bans, not caused by bans creating wild weekends, so back to think rather than know there. LOL

[Dipstik]

I'm guessing those people were already banned

[Brendan]

I don't think we'll have a weekend without supervision as Sirius is now the supervisor.

He's locking a lot of fun threads. Boring....

[Sirius]

He's locking a lot of fun threads. Boring....

Can't be all sunshine and lollipops lol!

[Vile Lynn]

Can't be all sunshine and lollipops lol!

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LkzArYrC0MM/hqdefault.jpg

Look at what we've done to the forum.