The point of this game

[John_Locke]

The point of this game isn't to build your stats; it isn't too build your IPH, help your syndicate, or even to get up to 500 henchmen. The point of this game is the same as all games; to have fun.

In my years playing CC, I've ran into hundreds of people, been an officer in five syndicates, organized multi-syndicate jumping, and helped transform a fledgling top 500 syndicate into a solid top 350 without losing more than five members. In all that time, what made everything enjoyable was the people I met. And for the most part, this forum held the same enjoyment; long time posters have become as familiar to me as some of the people I've gotten to know playing CC.

But all that is changing.

Character is being scrubbed from the forum. Overmoderation and premature locking of threads is stifling the very reason CC is so popular; the people. Conversations are stopped for going "off topic" when in reality, they're doing what every single interesting conversation has ever done; evolve. That's what a conversation is, dear mods. It's not a straight, cramped railroad; it's a river, twisting and turning, changing with the contours of the land.

I implore you. Don't destroy this forum. Let us have some enjoyment. After all, this is just a game.

[Dipstik]

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/58/76/b1/5876b1d28270d194a3343736185fd7f9.jpg

[Relic]

Sorry you feel this way.

Off-topic posts do, indeed, happen when a conversation evolves. The crux of the issue isn't that some of the conversations evolve, I think most of us would overlook it if it were positive and fun. Sadly, much of the off-topic conversations are non-constructive community in-fighting, or insults toward the moderators and staff.

If our handling of off-topic conversation seems heavy-handed, I'd urge you to look at the tone of the off-topic posts and consider how very unpleasant and lacking in civility they are. Nor are they welcoming to new community members, who would also make the forum a more fun place to be.


The point of this game isn't to build your stats; it isn't too build your IPH, help your syndicate, or even to get up to 500 henchmen. The point of this game is the same as all games; to have fun.

In my years playing CC, I've ran into hundreds of people, been an officer in five syndicates, organized multi-syndicate jumping, and helped transform a fledgling top 500 syndicate into a solid top 350 without losing more than five members. In all that time, what made everything enjoyable was the people I met. And for the most part, this forum held the same enjoyment; long time posters have become as familiar to me as some of the people I've gotten to know playing CC.

But all that is changing.

Character is being scrubbed from the forum. Overmoderation and premature locking of threads is stifling the very reason CC is so popular; the people. Conversations are stopped for going "off topic" when in reality, they're doing what every single interesting conversation has ever done; evolve. That's what a conversation is, dear mods. It's not a straight, cramped railroad; it's a river, twisting and turning, changing with the contours of the land.

I implore you. Don't destroy this forum. Let us have some enjoyment. After all, this is just a game.

[Nighteg]

I completely agree with OP. I'd even point my virtual finger at a specific volunteer, but he'd probably ban me, just because he can.

[Jeronimo]

Summary: money.

[wibble4321]

Sorry you feel this way.

Off-topic posts do, indeed, happen when a conversation evolves. The crux of the issue isn't that some of the conversations evolve, I think most of us would overlook it if it were positive and fun. Sadly, much of the off-topic conversations are non-constructive community in-fighting, or insults toward the moderators and staff.

If our handling of off-topic conversation seems heavy-handed, I'd urge you to look at the tone of the off-topic posts and consider how very unpleasant and lacking in civility they are. Nor are they welcoming to new community members, who would also make the forum a more fun place to be.

Have you asked yourselves why? It doesn't take a genius to recognise that there is a lot of resentment cooking. I've been playing for years, frequenting the forums for far less and contributing for only a fraction of that. Folks feel that the game is off topic, it is changing and evolving, but no one on the outside understands how or in what way. I am giving credit that there is a plan within the walls at Gree, but no one seems to be communicating it externally. Sure there are company goals and targets, so many players, so many ads served, so many sales per month, but there need to be customer side goals too. What is the future strategy of the game, how are battles seen as growing and changing?What is Gree thinking about changing? What does Gree see as the primary challenge to engage and develop their customers? With all that lack of communication, we have the mods who at times seem stuck in a very difficult and thankless spot. There seems to be little information coming to them from Gree to pass on to the customers and they get stuck trying to quash dissent and dissatisfaction - which further frustrates customers. I'm not sure how many more ways there are to say it. Communication is key. It doesn't seem like you (mods) are being given the tools to do the job expected of you, so every thread looks like a nail to the only tool you do have - a hammer. People want to blow off steam, that steam is Gree and Crime City related. The forums need to either be the buffer for that or there is little point having them I feel. At the end of the day of course, Gree can - and will - do as they please. I personally feel that riding the forums so hard while there is so much dissatisfaction is a mistake. It is alienating people that it should be embracing.

[Relic]

Have you asked yourselves why? It doesn't take a genius to recognise that there is a lot of resentment cooking. I've been playing for years, frequenting the forums for far less and contributing for only a fraction of that. Folks feel that the game is off topic, it is changing and evolving, but no one on the outside understands how or in what way. I am giving credit that there is a plan within the walls at Gree, but no one seems to be communicating it externally. Sure there are company goals and targets, so many players, so many ads served, so many sales per month, but there need to be customer side goals too. What is the future strategy of the game, how are battles seen as growing and changing?What is Gree thinking about changing? What does Gree see as the primary challenge to engage and develop their customers? With all that lack of communication, we have the mods who at times seem stuck in a very difficult and thankless spot. There seems to be little information coming to them from Gree to pass on to the customers and they get stuck trying to quash dissent and dissatisfaction - which further frustrates customers. I'm not sure how many more ways there are to say it. Communication is key. It doesn't seem like you (mods) are being given the tools to do the job expected of you, so every thread looks like a nail to the only tool you do have - a hammer. People want to blow off steam, that steam is Gree and Crime City related. The forums need to either be the buffer for that or there is little point having them I feel. At the end of the day of course, Gree can - and will - do as they please. I personally feel that riding the forums so hard while there is so much dissatisfaction is a mistake. It is alienating people that it should be embracing.

The community team definitely understands that our players are frustrated, and we communicate this very frequently on your behalf. We also communicate what we know to you when we have information to pass along.

However, frustration is, simply, not an excuse for shaming, name calling, and abusive language. It's not effective communication, and makes even less sense when you guys fight amongst yourselves.

[Dipstik]

It's not just name calling, flaming, and abusive language that's being shut down. Anything smelling of humor, rivalry, or fun gets locked.

[aarondavidsdad]

If it's even the slightest bit fun, it gets shut down. Most of the stuff on here is just gentle kidding. Like a sibling rivalry. Nothing malicious but it all gets shut down by the power hungry moderator(s).

[Lolsies]

First, before I say anything, you guys should not be judging our moderation, as seen in the Code of Conduct.

Now, we are not power hungry. We lock and delete what we think is appropriate for taking action. And most of the time, these 'appropriate' threads to delete are NOT gentle kidding. Is 'F**k you GREE' gentle kidding? Is any insult and sarcasm thrown towards GREE gentle kidding? No, probably not, and these things are just not acceptable in this community. That is why we lock and delete the threads we do. However, rivalry and humour is completely fine, as long as it is not taken too far and it creates a flame war. We are all human, and people just need to vent or joke around sometimes. We completely accept that.

[Vile Lynn]

Oh brother :rolleyes:

Excuse me, I think I just barfed in my mouth a little.

[Dipstik]

Well I could point out specific examples, but I'd probably get banned for that. I've tried sending PMs to Clem and relic and if I get a response it's the equivalent of "your concerns are noted." The weird thing is that "f**k you gree" threads tend to last forever and there's a four hour old post right now openly advocating for people to fraudulently demand refunds from Apple for gold purchases. It really looks like your priorities are out of whack, but no one cares.

If you want to ban everyone that enjoys actually communicating here, you'll just turn your forum into a cesspool of whining instead of a community of people who enjoy the game. Your forum, your call.

[Relic]

It's not that no one cares, it's that we are stretched thin and we can't possible see every post that goes up with all the games we have.

If you guys don't think the climate of the forum is bad when it comes to disrespect then we clearly have a difference of opinion on what is impolite. It's the stance of community staff that telling us to "f" off or perform sexual acts is impolite; you have no idea how often I get PM's thanking the actions of Clem, me, and the moderators for at least attempting to clean up the trolling that happens here.

I have many other things I need to tend to today besides detailing what is rude behavior, so I'm going to move on from this thread.

[aarondavidsdad]

Lately there has been a more severe enforcement of the CoC. I think enforcing it by the spirit rather than the letter would serve everyone better, including the mods.

When the developers consistently botch events and do not communicate with their customers, do you expect us to bend over and say "Sir may I have another"?

[xRedfoxx]

I for one support getting rid of all the foul language. Hope the moderators keep it up. We can complain and point of our differences of opinion without bad language. We can also poke fun at our rivals without using cuss words.

[Dipstik]

Ok seriously? MY post gets deleted but the post I was REPORTING that should receive a lifetime ban is STILL there? I'm just so confused...

[Vile Lynn]

Ok seriously? MY post gets deleted but the post I was REPORTING that should receive a lifetime ban is STILL there? I'm just so confused...

lol, no doubt! Feeling profiled?

[Vile Lynn]

Don't report thru the triangle anymore... It does nothing.
Relic finally confirmed in a PM that the reporting system is broken.

Too bad, so sad.

The Forum CoC should be updated until it's fixed.

[AZZ.]

The use of the ** below is against the Code of Conduct! LOCK THIS THREAD.
First, before I say anything, you guys should not be judging our moderation, as seen in the Code of Conduct.

Now, we are not power hungry. We lock and delete what we think is appropriate for taking action. And most of the time, these 'appropriate' threads to delete are NOT gentle kidding. Is 'F**k you GREE' gentle kidding? Is any insult and sarcasm thrown towards GREE gentle kidding? No, probably not, and these things are just not acceptable in this community. That is why we lock and delete the threads we do. However, rivalry and humour is completely fine, as long as it is not taken too far and it creates a flame war. We are all human, and people just need to vent or joke around sometimes. We completely accept that.

[Bad Beak]

Azz is specifically referencing this portion of the COC:

"This forums also uses a language filter to remove words that are considered inappropriate. Such words will be replaced with asterisks (*). Working around the filter, including your own use of asterisks (*) or acronyms is considered swearing and not permitted. Signatures, avatars, titles, usernames, videos, and images must also follow these rules."

Also, noted is that this section of the COC contains the phrase "this forums", which is an atrocity against the rules of English grammar.

[Dipstik]

Calling the mods out on CoC violations is considered trolling. Don't ask why I know this, I can't tell you without getting an infraction. :)

[Bad Beak]

Does it lead to double secret probation?

ROAD TRIP!

[Max Power]

The fact that this discussion is necessary speaks volumes. Everybody knows that f bombs are pull worthy, this isnt that. People, no customers, are frustrated, and are not getting answers. That is why they are venting here. You are chasing the symptoms, not adressing the problems. I can only guess how many people have quit not only because of bizarre nature of game evolution, but because of the lack of a canvas to air concerns.

This whole thing should be exhibit A in business school in how NOT to handle things.

[Dipstik]

Maybe it is. Could you imagine a world where Crime City is a large-scale business experiment to test how much abuse you can really put customers through and what percentage will continue to take it over and over? I bet there's valuable data to be mined here.

[megmonkey7]

sounds fun

[Captain Torgue]

we are not power hungry

lol...................

[John_Locke]

Let's not let this conversation devolve to the point where the mods would rightfully lock it; that would be going off topic, since that wasn't my intention.

The increase in moderation has, for the vast majority of instances, been positive; in several instances, they've let minor offenses slide. I want to take this opportunity, Relic, Lolsoes and One Shot, too thank you for that. Realistically, your moderation is far from the Nazi-esque bludgeoning many have accused you of.

The reason I created this thread will be posted at the bottom of this post. While I'm aware that discussing moderator action is against the CoC, I'm hoping the spirit of this post will be understood. I'm not attacking, berating or complaining. I'm just trying to cite an example of the point I made in the original post; an obviously satirical post was taken seriously because we, the members of this forum, have trained the moderators to automatically assume the worst.

Shame on us.

http://forums.gree.net/showthread.php?114251-Locking-threads-about-locked-threads

[Red BD]

The fact that this discussion is necessary speaks volumes. Everybody knows that f bombs are pull worthy, this isnt that. People, no customers, are frustrated, and are not getting answers. That is why they are venting here. You are chasing the symptoms, not adressing the problems. I can only guess how many people have quit not only because of bizarre nature of game evolution, but because of the lack of a canvas to air concerns.

This whole thing should be exhibit A in business school in how NOT to handle things.

What the gentleman said.

Is the rule actually that a player may not critique an interactive game?' If so, say that.

[Dipstik]

I'm pretty sure that linking to a locked thread about locking threads about locked threads will get this thread locked.

[HavingFun]

'F**k you GREE'

Enjoy your ban.

[John_Locke]

I'm pretty sure that linking to a locked thread about locking threads about locked threads will get this thread locked.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/27285798.jpg

Still haven't figured out how to add an image without a link. Woe is me.

[Dipstik]

If you're on a desktop, right-click the image, copy image location, and then use the HTML tags {img} URL {/img} but with actual brackets.

[John_Locke]

If you're on a desktop, right-click the image, copy image location, and then use the HTML tags {img} URL {/img} but with actual brackets.

Well that explains it. Mobile every post.

[sister morphine]

Well that explains it. Mobile every post.
You can still sometimes open an image on its own address on mobile devices. If not, then grabbing and uploading to photobucket is the easiest route.

[sister morphine]

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2012/39/1348641351-27285798.jpg

That was the third image on google search. I see yours was the first one ;)

[Max Power]

I'm pretty sure that linking to a locked thread about locking threads about locked threads will get this thread locked.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Mackiesback/yo_zpslbu0aziz.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Mackiesback/media/yo_zpslbu0aziz.jpg.html)

[Bad Beak]

The increase in moderation has, for the vast majority of instances, been positive; in several instances, they've let minor offenses slide. I want to take this opportunity, Relic, Lolsoes and One Shot, too thank you for that. Realistically, your moderation is far from the Nazi-esque bludgeoning many have accused you of.

http://forums.gree.net/showthread.php?114251-Locking-threads-about-locked-threads

Unless someone is wearing an SS uniform and actually bludgeoning you with a truncheon, it's fairly safe to say what you've said, and also entirely beside the point. Other things that are probably true: the moderators are not Martian, genetically mutated fish, or a condominium.

[Dipstik]

I am reserving judgment on whether the forum is moderated by a condominium complex. The evidence so far is inconclusive.

Edit: before anyone bans me, no, that's not an insult. It's absurd humor.

[Vile Lynn]

I am reserving judgment on whether the forum is moderated by a condominium complex. The evidence so far is inconclusive.

Edit: before anyone bans me, no, that's not an insult. It's absurd humor.

And THAT is what our fun posts have resorted to ^^

I have felt the need many times to post "no sarcasm meant" because of this.
It sucks.

[John_Locke]

http://m.memegen.com/lsv8mw.jpg

[Winnson]

Great original post and it is what it is.

Nothing we can do about it without the thread getting locked.

I guess dead forums are happy forums. Whatever.

[John_Locke]

I think I may have killed this discussion by placing the blame on us members instead of the mods.

Salient post. Please discuss.

[Max Power]

I think I may have killed this discussion by placing the blame on us members instead of the mods.

Salient post. Please discuss.

Kinda yup.......

[Bad Beak]

Stockholm syndrome. You do what you need to do in order to survive the milieu you've been thrust into; after a couple of years, supposing a weak mind and will, you're Patty Hearst robbing banks for the Symbionese Liberation Army.

Disclaimer: I've exaggerated for humorous effect.

[TheJess]

The point of this game isn't to build your stats; it isn't too build your IPH, help your syndicate, or even to get up to 500 henchmen. The point of this game is the same as all games; to have fun.

In my years playing CC, I've ran into hundreds of people, been an officer in five syndicates, organized multi-syndicate jumping, and helped transform a fledgling top 500 syndicate into a solid top 350 without losing more than five members. In all that time, what made everything enjoyable was the people I met. And for the most part, this forum held the same enjoyment; long time posters have become as familiar to me as some of the people I've gotten to know playing CC.

But all that is changing.

Character is being scrubbed from the forum. Overmoderation and premature locking of threads is stifling the very reason CC is so popular; the people. Conversations are stopped for going "off topic" when in reality, they're doing what every single interesting conversation has ever done; evolve. That's what a conversation is, dear mods. It's not a straight, cramped railroad; it's a river, twisting and turning, changing with the contours of the land.

I implore you. Don't destroy this forum. Let us have some enjoyment. After all, this is just a game.

Personally, I'd like to see this forum become useful like it formerly was. It seems all to frequent these days that it's overrun with trolling, and misinformation. A lot of the real contributors no longer are around, whether not playing or not interested in what the forum has become.

[Bad Beak]

I believe that most of that kind of general assistance has moved to GroupMe, Line, or Kakao.

[John_Locke]

Personally, I'd like to see this forum become useful like it formerly was. It seems all to frequent these days that it's overrun with trolling, and misinformation. A lot of the real contributors no longer are around, whether not playing or not interested in what the forum has become.

I'm just running with an idea here.. but this might be related. Back a few years ago, this was like a big community; people talked, joked, all that great stuff! Someone came along, sure, we can help.

But now that posters like BigMoney (God rest his soul) are gone and Grim Reaper stopped posting, help is both sporadic and half-hearted.

I'll try and answer more questions from now on. And not just with, "buy more henchmen!" ... Ok, maybe a little.

[sister morphine]

I'm just running with an idea here.. but this might be related. Back a few years ago, this was like a big community; people talked, joked, all that great stuff! Someone came along, sure, we can help.

But now that posters like BigMoney (God rest his soul) are gone and Grim Reaper stopped posting, help is both sporadic and half-hearted.

I'll try and answer more questions from now on. And not just with, "buy more henchmen!" ... Ok, maybe a little.
You are sadly correct that much of the community feeling has gone from this forum; that's not to say its gone away completely, as has been said the banter that used to make this place fun to come to has largely migrated to syndicate chat rooms.

I'm not sure it's possible to bring that back now. The whole nature of the game has changed so much since Gree introduced syndicates. Now it's all about competition to see who can win the top prizes and big spenders wanting maximum return on their "investment". Things have got very serious on the surface. Back in the day it was rivalries between player-created and driven gangs - Indians and CK as the obvious one, but also the many others orbiting around them. The so-called neutrals used to pile in as well, but it was all (or mostly all) just banter, and the mods only stepped in very occasionally.

As for the players who worked out how the game functioned, and gave us the Type A & Type B building distinctions, and back engineered the maths so it was possible to calculate the exact cost of upgrades and payouts without having to laboriously go through the upgrades, many of them had retired long before syndicates even came on the scene.

The events we now have have been pretty well mapped out in the past (Bill's epic boss fighting guide still stands for example). SA is different in that there is no one true path, and the ability to farm demons in preparation for making indy goal runs has changed things once more; certainly for those who don't spend much or at all.

Other than A&F we have not been well served by Gree telling players what prizes are in any event; much of what appeared before was players with the knowledge looking behind the scenes at the plist.

[Captain Torgue]

But now that posters like BigMoney (God rest his soul) are gone and Grim Reaper stopped posting, help is both sporadic and half-hearted.

I stopped posting? That's news to me.

[HavingFun]

Personally, I'd like to see this forum become useful like it formerly was. It seems all to frequent these days that it's overrun with trolling, and misinformation. A lot of the real contributors no longer are around, whether not playing or not interested in what the forum has become.

Your nostalgic yearning has touched my soul. Please lead us sheeple back to days gone by....

[Dipstik]

I stopped posting? That's news to me.

Wait, you're grim reaper??

[Captain Torgue]

Wait, you're grim reaper??

What's more concerning is he associated me with being helpful, lol

[TheWarthog]

Ok Relic and Lolsies...try to imagine this.

A person comes up with an idea to implement. Its somewhat unique and attracts like minded people. Lets say, a warehouse where people can establish a private area and build a house of cards and it is totally free. It attracts a large number of people who enjoy the time in discussion with each other and the developers, some to the point that they spend money to buy more cards and build bigger houses, and the money spent helps the owner keep the lights on. When the lights go out and the customers mention it and the owner is gracious, helpful and turns the lights back on. Everything is awesome.

A couple years later the owner goes into business with the kid that used to fry frogs with a magnifying glass when he was a kid. This co-owner installs an exhaust fan. About every 6 months the spoiled little killjoy flips a switch that sucks most of the cards out of the room, putting the builders on a more even playing field. It doesn't really matter if player A was a regular and consistent player every day for a long time or how many cards he bought previously. What matters most is if he happened to show up at the time that the exhaust fan was turned off and got a jump on reconstruction. So builders pick up and start all over thinking "this was necessary. I don't understand why but it must have been." 6 months later it happens again, then again, then again. No rationale ever comes from the owners and the builders start to complain to each other, but gag orders come in. Nobody can talk bad about the owners or the warehouse maintenance team. All "polite" complaints are met with the same canned line "we understand your frustration", yet nothing is ever done to address the frustration.

This is exactly what's happened here. You had a product many people liked and supported and had good customer service. After the Funzio/Gree merger, customer service died and every few months you throw the game into turmoil. I remember when my player hit 500k stats. I worked hard to get him there. He was a beast. Then stat inflation made 500k possible in a couple days and my hard earned 500k meant nothing. Then the accomplice fiasco made those stats almost COMPLETELY obsolete. Players didn't like that, so you changed it back and responded with HYPER stat inflation where 500k is possible with a couple bosses.

Your apologies mean nothing guys. You claim to understand but you do not. Your rush to shut down any venting and frustration exacerbates the problem. Would you rather the convo take place here where (God forbid) you might learn something that could help you create a better experience and save your customer base or where it is most likely taking place, away from your forums where people talk about better gaming options? How long will you see your game approval rating drop before you do something about it? I saw your employee satisfaction rating...do you really think that taking your frustration with admin out on customers will HELP your standing with the company? How about try something new...satisfy your CUSTOMERS in spite of your poor working relationship with your bosses...get the game rating up and more revenue in, then see if your relationship with admin changes.

That's the way mature businesses work.

Yes I know. All of the time spent dreaming up the analogy was wasted time. Save your response. It'll sound as sincere as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u0EL_u4nvw

[Max Power]

This forum reflects the game. The game used to be simple, and in the forst year, the only event was monthy and it was a simple box event. People discussed strategy, and forms their own gags. There was much to discuss.

Now there is an event or two going on at ALL times, and the events are simple gold grabs. Not much to discuss there. And the game is broken so often, people just trying to get what they paid for dominates the discussion. That and as stated, there is zero helpful feedback from the hosts of this site, so I would have to say that this site is exactly what Gree made it, for better or worse.

[Oasis]

I stopped posting? That's news to me.

Funny story... I was in a syn at one point in time with Grim Reaper...During one of our "off-line" syn chats I started making fun of Captain Torgue - I learned pretty quickly that the two on-line personas are the same person...Ha

[John_Locke]

What's more concerning is he associated me with being helpful, lol

I envisioned you guys as a yin and yang type of thing; he's useful, you're fun.

[Red BD]

Well stated TheWarthog.

[montecore]

First, before I say anything, you guys should not be judging our moderation, as seen in the Code of Conduct.

Now, we are not power hungry. We lock and delete what we think is appropriate for taking action. And most of the time, these 'appropriate' threads to delete are NOT gentle kidding. Is 'F**k you GREE' gentle kidding? Is any insult and sarcasm thrown towards GREE gentle kidding? No, probably not, and these things are just not acceptable in this community. That is why we lock and delete the threads we do. However, rivalry and humour is completely fine, as long as it is not taken too far and it creates a flame war. We are all human, and people just need to vent or joke around sometimes. We completely accept that.

The community seems to think these things are acceptable. This is an online forum for a game, not a presidential dinner with foreign dignitaries. How about letting the community define what the community standards are, rather than you and your heavy handed forum rules (which essentially give you credence to delete any thread posted).

The more threads you lock or moderate, the less you and your team are respected. And you already have a very short distance to fall.

[I love tacos]

Words of wisdom.

[Winnson]

Words of wisdom indeed.

Props