New Epic War Tier Prizing

[Phill - Immortal GM]

We have all witnessed the recent increase of imbalance between Raid Wars and Epic Wars in terms of Cost vs. Reward.
While Raids are generally cheaper (of course you need a specific level of a lineup), their reward Epics have been gradually increasing, while the Epic War Epic prizes have seemingly dropped in Stats compared to the raid ones.

After numerous suggestions, which included but weren't limited to:
* Epic War Milestones
* Balanced Epics
* Continued Raid War Milestones (not stopping at 13m)

we finally see a change in GREE's approach as of today!
We all waited for that one Combination since months. Another Fire/Water Epic War.
Thinking back about Blazestone, Apocalypse and Harlequin, all by far more expensive than wars of their time and setting the trends into a time-frame dominated by high Top 10 reserves, we will finally see a new Fire/Water Element Epic War Prize!


http://i.imgur.com/h4Nrf4Q.jpg

But GREE did more than just give us this anticipated, expensive combination,
No. They revamped the whole Epic War prizing System (http://knightsdragons.tumblr.com/post/113355380318/new-amped-prizing-starting-with-this-weekends).
The question, for the better or for the worse?

Let's take a look at the following:


Black Ribbon (1): 2 +Version armors, 80 Fusion Boost armors, 60 Dark Prince’s Keys, 150 Gems
Gold Ribbon (2): 1 +Version armor, 60 Fusion Boost armors, 40 Dark Prince’s Keys, 120 Gems
Silver Ribbon (3): 1 +Version armor, 40 Fusion Boost armors, 25 Dark Prince’s Keys, 100 Gems
Bronze Ribbon(4-10): 2 Epic armors, 20 Fusion Boost armors, 15 Dark Prince’s Keys, 70 Gems
Ribbon A (11-25): 1 Epic armor, 10 Fusion Boost armors, 10 Dark Prince’s Keys, 30 Gems
Ribbon B (26-50): 1 Legendary+, 5 Fusion Boost armors, 5 Dark Prince’s Keys, 15 Gems
Ribbon C (51-100): 1 Legendary+, 3 Fusion Boost armors, 3 Dark Prince’s Keys, 10 Gems
Ribbon D (101-250): 1 Legendary, 1 Dark Prince’s Key, 12 Enchanted Keys, 400000 Gold
Ribbon E (251-500): 1 Legendary, 8 Enchanted Keys, 400000 Gold

*phew, that hope not to mess up Ribbons without cross checking if it's correct. Let's pray ;)

What can we say to this?
Well, let's start at the bottom, that's what we are all interested about right?

I don't recall much about the Bonus-rewards (Keys, Gold) after the T50, but I must say that I think it is positive that free to play players may now receive an increased amount of Dark Prince Keys as well as Enchanted Keys.
Of course the days of buying those chests with Gems are over, but 15 months ago, before Epic Chests, we used to buy Dark Prince Chests and that's why they were made that 'expensive' when comparing to what you may get out of them.
Since then, we have had R&A added to it. This is the single most positive aspect of handing them out now - It gives lower level players the chances to get cheap 'bling' to boost their knight's Stats up.
This applies to all Tiers mentioned, as we can see a gradual increase of Keys and lateron also Fusion Boosters. The only issue, which I am sure will soon be reworked: The difference of T10/25/50/100 Fusion Boosters handed out in Fusion Fighter's Blitz Wars and those new, revamped Epic Wars. Please look into a balance for this.

Now to the P2P oriented Tiers, which, right now you have likely made much more competitive.
We see the following small details:
T10: 2 Epic Armors
T25: 1 Epic Armor
Question raised: Same Epic Armor? If not, why give out 2 War epics, but only 1 "T25 Epic" (Such as Ashenfire, All Seeing [futuristic outlook only, don't freak.] and many more)
Next nice little touch: The Gems starting from T100. It isn't much, but it is something. Only comment: Compare the Amount of Dark Prince Keys (x20 Gems) to Gems, and look at Number 1. Nuff said? Yupp.

Hooowever, now let's get to the actual interesting bit.
You have read right.

Black Ribbon (1): 2 +Version armors, 80 Fusion Boost armors, 60 Dark Prince’s Keys, 150 Gems
Gold Ribbon (2): 1 +Version armor, 60 Fusion Boost armors, 40 Dark Prince’s Keys, 120 Gems
Silver Ribbon (3): 1 +Version armor, 40 Fusion Boost armors, 25 Dark Prince’s Keys, 100 Gems
(yes I just selfquoted)

Silver Ribbon - One (epic) Plus. Okay. This is very nice, I guess? It was tested in Arena and seems to have inflated Arena a lot.
The point in doing the same with the already pricey Epic Wars? Yes. Inflate them. You just made Android a total warfield, nice one!
Personally I am looking forward to it, but come on, really?

Gold Ribbon - One (epic) Plus. Well. This makes sense, given that #3 gets the (epic)+, too. I guess in general the #2 and #3 Tiers are done well. It will be interesting to see what happens and/or comes from it.
Personally I feel you will inflate prices extremely for 3 cycles, have us dried out by then and we will somehow get cheaper Epic+ than before - So thank you!

Black Ribbon - TWO (epic) Plus. Okay. That is a bit too much, don't you think? As part of the alliance currently controlling #1 Epic Wars on Droid and thus benefiting from it, I still need to ask - WHY? When I had read, that the Top 3 Guilds would be rewarded with a Plus (which was a few hours before the actual Tiers were leaked..) I thought, great, this is a perfect and smart introduction into your planned 6-Star-Tier Armor, good job.
Now, after reviewing and seeing that #1 Receives TWO (epic)+ Armors I must say, how will you implement 6* Armors? Will you give out Two of each to 40 people? That would be pretty terrible and would move away from the initial by-effect of this update, which is to bring the spender:free2Play gap a bit closer together.

EDIT: What would make sense would be for #1 to get a Top10 Epic+ and a Top25 Epic+. Question is, why? Would they want that, or is it going to just add an unnecessary collectors-worth? Really can't wait for tomorrow's EW announcement to find out.

There are so many questions floating around right now... Some of which are listed above, but others remain:
- What happens to Raids, will you implement this identical? Will now only Epic Wars have Plusses for the Top 3 to compensate for the fact they are, let's be blunt, terrible compared to Raid Epics? We all know why you would have possibly done that, don't we? Let's not start the conspiracies, those will make their move-arounds soon enough.

- Won't this totally inflate prices? How will you react once it curves downwards again, Inflate the stats again? Once the stats are inflated, will you then adopt a similar System for Raids?
Answers are appreciated.


Don't get me wrong. I am all for change. But don't you think the way you have implemented this, with literally 32~ Hours of warning, when people spent up to 5000 Gems for Regular Epics during the last weeks, is wrong?
Isn't this what you made the Beta for?
I don't understand why this change is done so abrupt and in the way it has been done. Two Epic+, or whatever it will then one day be for Black Medal does seem to Overkill it for anyone else and frankly I believe you will hear a lot of criticism for this move.



What do others think?
Is this a typical "yay or nay", or does it need further investigation? Why was it done the way it has been, will it affect raids as well to be at least fair in this aspect for once?

I would love to hear your opinion on this!
Please try to remain constructive - I hope we can reach a point where this Thread might be used to tailor and optimize the update that is about to be released, as I feel it is a huge one.

Phill

[Regretz]

Lets be realistic here Phil. This DID NOT at all help bridge the gap between the normal players and the players that throw away paychecks for gems (constant t10). Oh WOW a few fusion boosts and dark prince keys/enchanted keys more for the lower ribbons! Compared to the 2 +epics, along with t3 getting + epics, 4-10 gets 2 epics!

If u think this helped u r sadly mistaken. It only widened the gap, as now the t10 runners will have a huge advantage (much MUCH more than before) over the normal players, and they will spend more on it (which means more blowout wars that demoralize the normal players).

This "revamp" of rewards is pathetic, as it only benefits the t10. Go figure.

[Soberranger]

Lets be realistic here Phil. This DID NOT at all help bridge the gap between the normal players and the players that throw away paychecks for gems (constant t10). Oh WOW a few fusion boosts and dark prince keys/enchanted keys more for the lower ribbons! Compared to the 2 +epics, along with t3 getting + epics, 4-10 gets 2 epics!

If u think this helped u r sadly mistaken. It only widened the gap, as now the t10 runners will have a huge advantage (much MUCH more than before) over the normal players, and they will spend more on it (which means more blowout wars that demoralize the normal players).

This "revamp" of rewards is pathetic, as it only benefits the t10. Go figure.

I have to agree that it seems this will only further the gap. I'm happy that they're taking a step in the right direction, but it seems to me that gree overestimate the values of the outdated legendaries being handed out. The vast majority of people that receive these rewards have absolutely no use for these items outside of fusion fodder. I'm not against handing out fusion fodder as a reward, but lets look at it for what it is..HALF of a CHANCE to get something useful. I think what they should do to close this gap is to introduce some sort of guild quartermaster. Each guildmember gains a currency based off of their participation in guild events that could be traded in for mono element legendaries to use for fusions. The quartermaster could also be leveled up by winning wars or killing raid bosses to unlock goodies for the people that don't need fusion gear in the form of cosmetic items like exclusive titles or capes. The only thing is that points should not transfer between guilds to prevent joining a guild with a leveled quartermaster to reap the benefits.

[Phill - Immortal GM]

Good Idea, sadly will never be implemented.

Anyhow, yesterday night (or day if you're in the US) GREE posted on Facebook that there will only be ONE Epic handed out each Event - Meaning, we are indeed assuming that:
#1 + 2x T10 Epic+
4-10 2x T10 Epic Regular.
11-25 1x T10 Epic Regular.

Now this is very funny and I wonder what on earth they were thinking when doing this, lol.

@Regretz: of course the existing gap between a T10 player and someone that saves up videos from Arena etc. will never decrease again. I also feel it shouldn't.
But at least you may now get T10 Armor (hopefully) cheaper once the stage of inflation is over - Right?
Or are we thinking 26 (Cause someone needs to be that lucky winner of a Legendary+) teams will score 20-30m like the T10 has previously done?
Don't think so. At least not every Event.

[Regretz]

Once again you completely missed the point of my post Phil... I wasnt saying the gap should get closer and closer, as I kno it wont and idc tbh. (Cant get into the mindset of spending more on virtual armor than my mortgage) What I was saying is that in ur original post u were all excited about how this will benefit everybody. My point is... no it doesnt, it only benefits the t10 players.

But oh wait, u mentioned we get a few more keys now (3-5)! Well, those DP keys better be spittin out epics now eh? BUT WAIT! The t10 now get 40-60 DP keys! If u look at it from a wholistic pov instead of just wat they did for t10 runs, u would see its completely unbalanced and only benefits the t10.

And dont say "So buy some gems and do t10 runs". As mentioned above, I cant bring myself to spend $200 every week on virtual armor. I wish I understood wat goes on in peoples heads when they value pixels at such a high price, but hey im more of a realist.

Cheers, Regretz

[Phill - Immortal GM]

That's absolutely fine and was not intended at the slightest. I didn't miss the point nor did I claim you want the gap closer.
The initial thought is that a free player received 0, or 1 DP keys and now receives 3-5,

What a T10 player gets doesn't really matter as these spend up to 200$ a week as you stated. We shouldn't compare those.
But what we may compare are semi-spenders and free players, which considering the way T25 will likely play out must move a bit closer together for the following reason:

Before: Semi Spender goes T25 as often as possible and T10 maybe once every 2 or 3 months.
Before: Free Player goes T25 every 2 or 3 months
Now this T25 will give you an epic that isn't outdated when you receive it. So whilst you won't catch up to the big guys, at least you won't lose as much to the smaller ones (If that makes sense?)

This update is by no means perfect and trust me the spenders are as skeptic as you are right now. In fact they are more against it than you and most consider stopping to spend and/or play.


Personally, whilst (As said in the original post, Gems vs DP keys for high ranks are very imbalanced) these ranks get too many keys, I couldn't really care less as someone that will not go for T10 every single war for reasons we don't need to argue on here.
The fact is and will remain that GREE clearly doesn't care and they won't ever.

[Soberranger]

I guess it really comes down to how many people are willing to pay for the top25 spots and how many gems theyre willing to spend. I like the idea of increasing the amount of people that are receiving rewards..but 2 of the same armor? What if you gave the new epic AND the epic from previous week, it will make top guilds not need to run as often and possibly bring down the amount of gems required for a t25 run. I'm currently in a t250 guild in an alliance that regularly does t10-t25, but im not experienced in that arena. I would love to see f2p develop an endgame that could actually become relevent, but I fear there will always be someone willing to pay and keep that gap alive?

[Phill - Immortal GM]

The gap will always be alive.
My initial hope was for T10 to receive the T25 + T10 epic and for the T25 in EPIC WARS to be on the level of Raids...
With their latest Facebook post however, confirming that only One Epic will be handed out..well.

Many of my subs are T50-250 and I must agree I would love to see them get better stuff for spending the same amount of time and or effort.
Sadly it's been a P2W game since the start of 2014 and it's been moving more and more into that direction.

Let's see what tonight's announcement brings.

In terms of T25, well, I don't think 25 (15 really) guilds can push as big as 10 could before.
So, you might end up with cheaper war epics - But what worth is it if others get two? Kind of Pathetic.


The reasoning that I see behind it is for Epic Wars which are more expensive than Raids, which are in return time consuming, to SET UP the base for Raids.

Say next Element for Raid would be Spirit Fire (It won't), then the guilds ranking 1, 4-10 will have a big advantage over the guilds ranking 2-3 and 11-26: They will have double the output.
Not one war epic of this sort, but two.
For someone that won't spend weekly x00$, this makes absolutely no sense, but having seen the past weeks and two attempts to dethrone DK in raids which were stopped after approximately 30 hours instead of pulling through the entire 48 hours, this seems a brilliant move to lure us straight into spending even more time and money into Raids (as they will likely still have the BETTER reward, even if there are 'less' of it (which makes it even better as it will be rare, and Raid Epics are usually 1 Generation ahead of Epic War Epics currently)

So.. In fact what I see happening:
The already expensive Epic Wars will set the foundation for Raids, which have a better reward. This means we will spend more, to be able to spend more (with bigger output) during raids.
Seems so silly to anyone not running permanently T10 or even #1 (now T3), but IF this is the way it goes, it will cause more Raid pushes and whilst EW are more pricey now, the small function of forced Power Attacks (2 Gems per attack, roughly 76 per energy for ~140k points on a level 6) will then be used more than prior, as the scores between #1 and #2 in raids will be closer, given the decrease in quality of armor...

_conspiracy-talk//off_

[Marco_]

I like the idea of increasing the amount of people that are receiving rewards..but 2 of the same armor? What if you gave the new epic AND the epic from previous week, it will make top guilds not need to run as often and possibly bring down the amount of gems required for a t25 run.
I guess gree hopes that giving out 2 of the same will lead to that power being carried over into raids (where you kind of need 3 of the same) and boosts spending there...

edit: lol, Phill quicker, but if it makes multiple people think the same, is it still "conspiracy talk"?..

[roookey1]

This move just kinda proves my theory I posted related to the "killing" of the heroic mode
that the managers of this company are totally focused on the small group of big spenders,
but have no longer-term perspective or customer-binding strategy at all.

Just look at Google Play. The game was a superstar 1+ years ago, but now pretty much the only positive
comments about it are from those 'join my guild' spammers and 'friend' seekers.
Everyone else feels cheated and squeezed and 'hates' the game for it.
What does Gree do about it? Piss off the masses (and thus the future of the game) by killing the best idea
they came up with during the last year, Heroic mode, and give even more (valuable) rewards to the existing
~500-1000 gem-throwers who are already dominating & buying every event.

[Ant venom]

Honestly I see 4-10 getting two as having an advantage over t3 getting just one epic+ in the new update since if u have the correct armor combination u can beat almost anything(it varies) thus making it feel like going t25 and I belive that t50 should take the place of the former t25 which gets normal epics, if the update hadn't come out yet I would've suggested to give t25 epic+(the epic they normally get) so to give t50 a chance and to get the epic and it would've been this case if this game isn't going at a downhill and also because the top gemmer in raid gets an epic+ and they have spent less than the raid guild going for t25 as a whole making it unfair if u didn't guve those t25 guilds an epic+.

Cheers;
Antvenom

[timsta007]

This is a natural progression for Gree to make. They make the most amount of money on any certain event when the demand for a prize tier far exceeds the supply of prizes being given. For example, when 12 guilds are all pushing for T10 or when 27 are all pushing for T25. With this change, they've added another prize tier at T3 which will likely cause additional competition for the + versions (you can argue about if 1 plus is better than 2 non-plus). Also they have increased the perceived value of the T25 reward when compared to what 26th place gets. I see, at least in the short term, all levels... T1, T3, T10, and T25 will be more expensive because the better prized will increase demand.

[Ant venom]

Honestly I also don't seee the point in paying GREE so much for an epic if it will become outdated in about 2 months and then introducing 6 stars will completely deflate everything and t50 (if GREE decides to give them epics) will be the same as going t500 and then GREE will have to reverse a lot of things to make it work, epics only worked in wars in the beginning b/c wars didnt exist when legendaries came out but now a whole different system and how would they implement it so there is a balance, then the f2p gap would be such a wide gap then there would be quitters more than ppl joining the game.

Cheers;
Ant venom

[ColombianThreatMachine]

This is by far the stupidest thing Gree has done... They have setup a forum specifically for player feedback and they go and do the complete opposite of everyone's request by shortening heroics, and revamping wars at their own discretion without taking any feedback into account. Its as if they were reading feedback from an entirely different game. Seriously Gree, what the heck is wrong with you?!!!!

[Wayne Tay]

This new revamped rewards totally sux. They strengthen top 25 rewards. Top 100/50 rewards doesnt seems attractive for me. Whats the use of dp/golden keys if i have over 100 fusion boosts. And do i use them to up those legend+ ? No logic at all. Cant even giv a weak epic for those tier?
It doesnt matter for me though.

For me ,im not from top25 alliance or guild, but i spend few hundred monthly on chests. Now im gonna stop spending till those guarenteed chest epic plus is going to improve.
Since epic you get now will become comman/weak epic few months later.
Thanks gree.

[Ant venom]

No, Wayne u are exageratting, those epics will be become outdated right when the new update comes out as those war epics will make our epics look like Minnows lol

[Wayne Tay]

Thats better still. Makes our recent normal epics looks weak.

[Ant venom]

Ours are always going to be Minnows because GREE waits until epics are outdated then lets us fuse them and get all excited about something that was released 4 months ago (although this doesnt apply to primordial hide when it was made fusible.

[ColombianThreatMachine]

Vomit... barf... spew...squirt nasty stuff all over this new change. Here comes the new era of everyone fighting got only top 3 or 11-25. Great job Gree for ruining wars once again!

[Smiley80]

I like it, the rewards make using gems more appealing now. I will participate more. the bubble who finishes 4-10th is probably the biggest winner in my opinion. some cases have 2 regular epics is better than 1 plus version (i.e. if a fire/spirit raid boss appears next week)

[ColombianThreatMachine]

I like it, the rewards make using gems more appealing now. I will participate more. the bubble who finishes 4-10th is probably the biggest winner in my opinion. some cases have 2 regular epics is better than 1 plus version (i.e. if a fire/spirit raid boss appears next week)


You will participate more? T25 price is going to go up now, it wont stay at a measly 200 gems anymore. Its going to be like t10 was before or close to it (800 gems and up) and now t10 - t4 will go up as well...... I will in now way pay extra gems for a 2nd t10 armor... that's just pointless. How do you know that gree will make the next raid boss an element weakness to the new epic war armor? In addition by the time the raid boss comes out that is weak to that element armor, there will already be a new epic war armor with the advantage or possibly a raid armor with the advantage.... Having 2 top 10 armors is useless. I do not see how having 2 T10 armors is a bigger winner, because the last armor I got 4 weeks ago from a raid has 1 of the same elements as this new armor.... I personally really do not need to stack the same elements, even for raids. I just need one of the elements. You are assuming that Gree's next raid boss is going to be Fire/Mystic. And you know what happens when you ASSume right?

Gree just created a leech fest, its obvious that not all guilds or alliances will be able to fill all these top 25 runs and many guilds will now just try to get in who they can to do a t25, a bunch of leeches will slime over to try and get into t25 now since the reward us much more attractive to them. The previous T10 guilds will now drop to T25 guilds.... I don't think anyone cares about this new change and the ONLY attractive thing here is T1-3 and T11-25.

[Aneria Heals]

Well, given i don't have great armors as of yet for raids, i have been finding raids to be much more expensive that wars till this new reward system (at least on IOS anyway). And yes, the price for t25 has gone up, but remember, this is the first time anyone has seen these reward tiers, and fire/water war epic is a highly covented armor combo and the last time this combo was a reward, things got nasty (Harliquin war). So many guild leaders set things high just in case. I think t25 prices will level out some eventually (not as low as before...but the rewards are improved). And of course t3 prices will be high, war/raid plusses are NICE! Nothing stays the same forever, guilds will adjust to the system, as will players

[roookey1]

I have decided to do the same a couple of weeks ago, Wanye, no interesting new epics in chests (the 1 or 2 that were would be to expensive to aim for, the odds are just too low).

The wars are some kind of (spending)-elite club for a few hundred competing players, while the rest gets some garbage for 3 (!) days of battling, Heroic mode as it is is ruined, the only thing remaining interesting for me (as a L100+ player) are Raids. I don't have armor slots to put all this stuff (> 1000 items, also because of the lack of interesting things to buy & upgrade), but at least it's fun and you get rewards for the time you're investing.

A devilish voice inside my head hopes that Gree will mess that up as well, then I can wholeheartedly focus on more rewarding activities in my life again. :)

[Phill - Immortal GM]

The Water/Air epic seemed nice. But then again it's still a chest, too much of a gamble for what you could get.

War prizes.. Wow. Pretty funny to see 26 guilds score 30M+ points.
Yupp heroic bit too short, agree. And of course they need to update armor slots rookey1, but do they listen? nope.


overall not too thrilled by new prizing, hope raids remain the way they were withe extension of milestones. Good luck to all t25 guilds for the last hours.

[Wayne Tay]

Those guarenteed epic plus for opening 52 chests is outdated. They have to give something better to match those top25 rewards epic.

[Ant venom]

Wayne, agreed but the new chest charges 82 chests for the new chest epic+ and a guy in my guild got the chest epic before the newest chest epic for only 1 chest(45 gems) and it was a plus, so chests are such a ripoff, btw the guy in my guild is not a noob he pays for the game, sometimes. Plus the war scores are ridiculous, the difference between 26 and 27 is like 25M difference, btw 26 are doing so many points because they think they have a chance or were recently kicked out of t25.

Cheers;
Ant venom

[Wayne Tay]

I dont mind spend 200-300 dollar a month for chests , if by opening bulk , gree guarentee an epic plus thats as good as war rewards. I dont want buy that amount of gems just to go into top 10/25 guild and battle it out. Im happy with my guild and just wan to spend available energy. I going to stop openin chests this month onwards.

[Ju Nation]

well, this new war is madness.

but the reward at the end of it was worth it. hehe

[Regretz]

So spendin an upwards of $250+ was worth it for some pixels. Pixels that are completely useless, worthless, and hold absolutely no monetary value? Sure, I could spend that much per week and have shiny new pixels also. But then id be askin myself y, and kno it wasnt worth it. I just cant bring myself to stoop to that mentality as im not using this game to hide from real life. I mean, maybe if this game required any skill at all to play. Nothing in this game requires skill at all.

Also, pretty funny fact. That shiny epic u bought can be beat by somebody with a free eb+ if the elements match in their favor. Ouch. When this game comes out with an aspect that requires skill to play, possibly I can invest. And dont say "but people put in so much work and effort to score high." Look at it realistically. It isnt hard work and determination, its wasting money and a lack of a social/family life.

That thread where u guys "praised" DK Master T as practically a god for scoring so high in a raid gave me quite a few good laughs. U idolize somebody that shuts himself in the basement for 48 straight hours ignoring friends/family to "be the best" at a skill that requires no skill!?!? BRAVO! The lack of mentality in this community as a whole amazes me.

I guess no matter how hard i try to understand the mentality behind u guys I just cant. My brain thinks money... im not investing money into anything unless I need it or I can make money off of it. Help me to understand and actually make sense. U cant. Insert arrogant, self-centered, pitiful retort here. ↓↓↓

[Mike WDragon]

So spendin an upwards of $250+ was worth it for some pixels. Pixels that are completely useless, worthless, and hold absolutely no monetary value? Sure, I could spend that much per week and have shiny new pixels also. But then id be askin myself y, and kno it wasnt worth it. I just cant bring myself to stoop to that mentality as im not using this game to hide from real life. I mean, maybe if this game required any skill at all to play. Nothing in this game requires skill at all.

Also, pretty funny fact. That shiny epic u bought can be beat by somebody with a free eb+ if the elements match in their favor. Ouch. When this game comes out with an aspect that requires skill to play, possibly I can invest. And dont say "but people put in so much work and effort to score high." Look at it realistically. It isnt hard work and determination, its wasting money and a lack of a social/family life.

That thread where u guys "praised" DK Master T as practically a god for scoring so high in a raid gave me quite a few good laughs. U idolize somebody that shuts himself in the basement for 48 straight hours ignoring friends/family to "be the best" at a skill that requires no skill!?!? BRAVO! The lack of mentality in this community as a whole amazes me.

I guess no matter how hard i try to understand the mentality behind u guys I just cant. My brain thinks money... im not investing money into anything unless I need it or I can make money off of it. Help me to understand and actually make sense. U cant. Insert arrogant, self-centered, pitiful retort here. ↓↓↓

Why do you care what other people do with their money? If people choose to spend money on virtual pixels, why not let them? They may be in a financial position to do so. If it's not worth it to you, then don't spend any money. No one's asking you to. But I don't see why you have to trash other players for what they choose to do with their money. You may not agree with their actions but that doesn't mean your right and everyone else is wrong. It's simply your opinion.

Plus, you have no idea what other people's social/family situations are. What if I'm playing with my family and friends? Then doesn't it become a social activity much like anything else? How do you know a group of friends aren't getting together to play in a social setting somewhere?

Maybe you can be a bit more tolerant of people who don't live the exact same way you do or hold the exact same values as you do. Try it instead of spewing hate and putting other people down. Because honestly, it just sounds like sour g****s. You can't do well in the game so the next best thing is to put down everyone who can do well to make yourself feel a little bit better. I hope you can respect the fact that everyone has a right to play the game however they wish without people like you putting us down and calling us names.

[Regretz]

Ouch Mike that hurt. Nowx before you go posting nonsense read more carefully plz. I said I simply dont understand how ppl can justify spending that amount on the game. Do I care? Hell no, but I can wonder cant I? As for me being "bad" at this game, I have multiple war epics, chest epics, and loads of fusible epics as well as very strong bling. I barely spend any on this game and im easily on par with the people that spend thousands. So before you come on here flexing ur muscles (lmao) get ur facts straight.

Cheers,
Regretz

[P4R4NO1D]

Ouch Mike that hurt. Nowx before you go posting nonsense read more carefully plz. I said I simply dont understand how ppl can justify spending that amount on the game. Do I care? Hell no, but I can wonder cant I? As for me being "bad" at this game, I have multiple war epics, chest epics, and loads of fusible epics as well as very strong bling. I barely spend any on this game and im easily on par with the people that spend thousands. So before you come on here flexing ur muscles (lmao) get ur facts straight.

Cheers,
Regretz

Dude calm down you're acting like we also spend $200 and thats why were defending the Top Players. Look dude if it bothers you so much just stop playing the game. The only reason you're even able to play is because of them and for your question on what goes on in their head, nobody here knows. BUT if they succeeded in their life so much that they can AFFORD to spend 200+ a week let them. Just let them be and stop criticizing people, it doesn't make you any better than anybody.

[Ju Nation]

Regretz regretz ...

Even you regret having such a nick.

What is your problem man? Seriously. Can you share? You having some RL issues?

I get your point. You are speaking like a spoiled kid who cant get what he wants.

"Mummy, the playground is dumb. Its a good thing you dont let me go play. "

First, eb + cant ever beat my epic + even if elements match. Fact. How i know it? Cos i got lots of war epic +.

Second, i have money to spare to play this game so whatever i spend on this game is peanuts compared to what i earn.

Third, who gave you the rights to judge anyone here?

Fourth, sour pu$$$

Fifth, you are definately entitled to your opinions. But can you be more constructive and mature?

Sixth, mike is right. As a matter of fact, my mates and i always meet up at some nice cafe to catch up and war at the same time.

I can go on, but i shall not.

Fyi, i have a wonderful work life, social life and gaming life. :)

[Marco_]

I said I simply dont understand how ppl can justify spending that amount on the game.
Probably similar to someone getting a Ferari when a cheaper car might have much more practical use where they live...
I guess people just love being at top of rankings. (in another game I play, people keep asking them on facebook to open more servers, since getting high up in the rankings is easier on a fresh new server than an existing one. Even though an existing server probably gives you at least equavalent in-game daily bonus resources as getting high up the rankings in a new server would...)



First, eb + cant ever beat my epic + even if elements match. Fact. How i know it? Cos i got lots of war epic +.

lol, yes the EB+ with double element advantage will very likely kill your war epic+ with no element advantage.
Single vs no might be iffy, for double vs single the epic+ will (near) certainly win.

[Ju Nation]

Haha... It might maybe... But i doubt so.

Cos a reg epic with double element boost might not be able to really take out an epic +

But i agree, never say never... Lol

[Mike WDragon]

Ouch Mike that hurt. Nowx before you go posting nonsense read more carefully plz. I said I simply dont understand how ppl can justify spending that amount on the game. Do I care? Hell no, but I can wonder cant I? As for me being "bad" at this game, I have multiple war epics, chest epics, and loads of fusible epics as well as very strong bling. I barely spend any on this game and im easily on par with the people that spend thousands. So before you come on here flexing ur muscles (lmao) get ur facts straight.

Cheers,
Regretz

Really? The entire tone of your post was inflaming and derogatory. If you don't care, why spend the time to even write that post? Your intent was to put people down. Keep telling yourself your on-par with the big boys if that makes you feel better about your game.

[Regretz]

Oooh did I hurt a few feelings? Gotta come post now to defend urselves cuz I tell things like they were? So sorry. Fyi, I am very well off irl, more than most. I spend my cash on other things. So wat if I wonder y ppl value pixels at such a high amount? Good for u. If it makes u happy good. As for u Ju Nation, my point was that even tho I spend minimal on this game and u obviously spend a lot, im easily on par with u. The reason? I kno how to get wat I want while spending next to nothing. My armors trump yours, or at least stay on par with yours. That, my friend, is my point.

As for you Mike, ur again proving another point. There is no "big boys" in this game. If this game had any aspect that required actual skill or thinking than sure. But it doesnt. A 5 year old can grasp every aspect of this game just as easily as an adult. So good job being a "big boy" in a no-skill childlike game. Keep pattin urself on the back over ur huge accomplishment. (Btw I know I have better armors but thats besides the point). Now I, on the other hand, am a big biy at Halo, CoD, LoL. Those games actually require skill, and nobody here could beat me at any of em. I used to play Halo professionally. Like I said, u dont kno who I am or wat ur talkin about.

[Smiley80]

Paying for entertainment??? you are all funny.
Paying for Pixels is a very popular thing. entertainment. pay to go see a pixel movie?
The bottom line is everyone pays for a consumable for entertainment.
I pay to watch a movie that lasts 2 hrs, 7-14$
I have paid 150$ to jump out of a plane. Jump lasted 90 seconds.
I have paid to drive a Ferrari on a race track 300$ for 20 min.
Prostitution is the oldest profession variable rate and variable duration, but nothing remains once your finished (except if get infected).

Now, I spend about 40$ a month on K&D and it entertains me for a significant amount of time. I have blown money on way dumber things. If I did not have a wife, 3 kids, mortgage and endless bills to pay I would probably spend more on K&D!

sure in 2 year I have probably spent more than 600-800$ and you could say I could have bought a lot of stuff with that money, but realistically I would have been bored or I would have done other activities that would have totaled or exceeded that.

QQ

[Regretz]

I agree with u there Smiley, I also spend money every month on KnD. It does entertain me for a bit and stop the boredom. The point im trying to make is there is a line, in my opinion, where this goes from being a hobby when bored to being an addiction overtaking aspects of your life. Im not trying to put anybody down or make fun of anybody, some people just have addictive personalities and im not one of them. I know when to stop (which is y I dont gamble) and take a break so I dont blow insane amounts of money on any 1 hobby. Does that make it more clear for everyone? I can see Smiley understands at least, not all hope is lost.

[Ju Nation]

I agree with u there Smiley, I also spend money every month on KnD. It does entertain me for a bit and stop the boredom. The point im trying to make is there is a line, in my opinion, where this goes from being a hobby when bored to being an addiction overtaking aspects of your life. Im not trying to put anybody down or make fun of anybody, some people just have addictive personalities and im not one of them. I know when to stop (which is y I dont gamble) and take a break so I dont blow insane amounts of money on any 1 hobby. Does that make it more clear for everyone? I can see Smiley understands at least, not all hope is lost.


Now you making sense there.

Anyway, you do what you like. As long as it makes you happy. That's all that matters. Correct?

As for u having armors that are on par with me, dont think so ...

You'll be surprise at my armors. :)

Yes, you are right. I could be spending my money on something else. But i just like spending it on KnD.

But are you sure i dont spend my money on other things as well?

We are all entitled to our opinions, you are too. But if you think that this game is too childlike for your liking , stop playing it then. You dont have to act like some godlike dude who believes that everything he does is right and everyone else isnt. :)

[Regretz]

Never said I was godlike lmao, ive made my fair share and more of mistakes irl. Yes, you are entitled to spend your cash how you please and idk wat and how much u spend. Also, ud be surprised at the armors I have for the amount of money I spend, I kno they r on par with urs... easily. Next, this game is a hobby so I enji y it, but i never said its childish. I said it requires no skill at all to play, and u cant argue with that. I just dont wanna spend too much on a game that doesnt require skill, thats all im sayin. I do spend occassionally tho, and im smart with my gems lol. My armors r wayyyy better than u think, but im not proud of em since theres no skill behind this game... *sigh*

[Wayne Tay]

So much debates. Lol for what.... Gree wants to earn, gree target top guild spenders for more income. Next month better armors come , yeah you need spend again. And whoever armor is better than who ? Yeah if you maintain playing for years, if not who the hell care if your armor is better now or what. We got extra money to spend , thats our own problem. Wan play game with skills ? Go play dota2 etc.

[Ju Nation]

Never said I was godlike lmao, ive made my fair share and more of mistakes irl. Yes, you are entitled to spend your cash how you please and idk wat and how much u spend. Also, ud be surprised at the armors I have for the amount of money I spend, I kno they r on par with urs... easily. Next, this game is a hobby so I enji y it, but i never said its childish. I said it requires no skill at all to play, and u cant argue with that. I just dont wanna spend too much on a game that doesnt require skill, thats all im sayin. I do spend occassionally tho, and im smart with my gems lol. My armors r wayyyy better than u think, but im not proud of em since theres no skill behind this game... *sigh*


Now we're on the same page. :)

I do agree that the gameplay is simple, but u shld really try playing against top guilds. The rotating gms and all.

I'm enjoying this game mainly because of the social aspect of it...

Btw, my acct is full of war epics plus. So its kinda hard to beat or match. :p

[Ant venom]

Now we're on the same page. :)

I do agree that the gameplay is simple, but u shld really try playing against top guilds. The rotating gms and all.

I'm enjoying this game mainly because of the social aspect of it...

Btw, my acct is full of war epics plus. So its kinda hard to beat or match. :p

Post some screenshots here to prove ur war epics plus, I could say I own every single epic ever released in the game (including the pluses) but without proof who would believe me.

Cheers;
Ant venom

[Mike WDragon]

Ant, he does have the war epic +'s. Many, many of them. These guys are T1 regulars.

[Ant venom]

Ant, he does have the war epic +'s. Many, many of them. These guys are T1 regulars.

I still need proof, I could say my mother has 20+ epics but without proof it doesn't mean anything.

[Fossil]

I still need proof, I could say my mother has 20+ epics but without proof it doesn't mean anything.

What a vicious circle. You need proof and he needs to prove nothing.

[Ant venom]

What a vicious circle. You need proof and he needs to prove nothing.

No, not that he needs to prove nothing, just that he can't prove he has war epics because he probably doesn't. I doubt he really is on par with Regretz nonetheless having war epics.

Cheers;
Ant venom

[Smiley80]

Anti Venom is a troll. Screen shot prove this, prove that. That guy is from a top guild on iOS and if you follow the charts posted in the forums you will realize that they are a stable top 10 guild. -1 for anti venom

[Ant venom]

I know the guild he is in is a stable t10 guild, but he could be only in that guild when it is resting for war or not going for t10. -2 for Slimey80.

Cheers;
Ant venom

[Mike WDragon]

No, not that he needs to prove nothing, just that he can't prove he has war epics because he probably doesn't. I doubt he really is on par with Regretz nonetheless having war epics.

Cheers;
Ant venom

Lol, I'm sure even if he did post some pics then you would just say he got those pics off the internet somewhere and you wouldn't believe him anyways. Whether you believe or not does not alter reality.

[Ant venom]

Lol, I'm sure even if he did post some pics then you would just say he got those pics off the internet somewhere and you wouldn't believe him anyways. Whether you believe or not does not alter reality.

I would respect him if he did post the screenshots, as if he did post it from the interent he could have distinctive details in the scrrenshots that I can assume is not from the internet.

Cheers;
Ant venom

[Ju Nation]

I would respect him if he did post the screenshots, as if he did post it from the interent he could have distinctive details in the scrrenshots that I can assume is not from the internet.

Cheers;
Ant venom

hahaha

i dont have to prove anything to you. you are funny.

trying to steal my ss and say it's yours? lol

just go ask around who is Ju from SL.

ios peeps of course.

[Ant venom]

hahaha

i dont have to prove anything to you. you are funny.

trying to steal my ss and say it's yours? lol

just go ask around who is Ju from SL.

ios peeps of course.

Yep, just another excuse to get around the fact that u don't have proof and so maybe u don't even have the so-called war epics that are so great. Good luck being a witness at court when u say someone killed someone else and u don't have any proof.

Cheers;
Ant venom

[Kangaroeland]

Dont feed the trolls and dont give them your SS ;)

[Ju Nation]

Yep, just another excuse to get around the fact that u don't have proof and so maybe u don't even have the so-called war epics that are so great. Good luck being a witness at court when u say someone killed someone else and u don't have any proof.

Cheers;
Ant venom


Hahaha, good try there.

Stop begging others for ss.

I dont have to prove anything.

Well, the court wont steal my proof. Would they? And u're no court. Now run along before you make yourself a even bigger joke than u already are...

[Phill - Immortal GM]

From Epic war (and now Raid) prizing to proving how good one is on here. Nice progress within those 5 days lol.

Ju, is RA having 1-3 on iOS now, or just two of the three?
It's nice to see the android pattern of EMP having 1/3 EW and 2/3 Raid and 3D vice versa.
Was expected. Question is how devalued are regular epics becoming?
Sure it is nice to earn them in a T25 now, but what do they still mean with the amount of people having them?

Let's see how this applies once the 'Dragonforged' 6* are released - Can't wait... (lol..Thank you gree..)

[P4R4NO1D]

From Epic war (and now Raid) prizing to proving how good one is on here. Nice progress within those 5 days lol.

Ju, is RA having 1-3 on iOS now, or just two of the three?
It's nice to see the android pattern of EMP having 1/3 EW and 2/3 Raid and 3D vice versa.
Was expected. Question is how devalued are regular epics becoming?
Sure it is nice to earn them in a T25 now, but what do they still mean with the amount of people having them?

Let's see how this applies once the 'Dragonforged' 6* are released - Can't wait... (lol..Thank you gree..)

Is that what the 6* are going to be called? DragonForged? Maybe Supreme or Ultimate but I guess DF is good enough

[Ant venom]

From Epic war (and now Raid) prizing to proving how good one is on here. Nice progress within those 5 days lol.

Ju, is RA having 1-3 on iOS now, or just two of the three?
It's nice to see the android pattern of EMP having 1/3 EW and 2/3 Raid and 3D vice versa.
Was expected. Question is how devalued are regular epics becoming?
Sure it is nice to earn them in a T25 now, but what do they still mean with the amount of people having them?

Let's see how this applies once the 'Dragonforged' 6* are released - Can't wait... (lol..Thank you gree..)

I wonder when they will come out. And Phill where did u find this intriguing info, I want to see as I am also very excited about it, although it might mean t25 and t10 and t3 are going to be raise another $200 as GREE might make it so that t25,t10, and t3 could get the 6* with an additional new war/raid 5*.

Cheers;
Ant venom

[Ant venom]

^ Which will also make the p2p and f2p gap wider too.

[Ju Nation]

From Epic war (and now Raid) prizing to proving how good one is on here. Nice progress within those 5 days lol.

Ju, is RA having 1-3 on iOS now, or just two of the three?
It's nice to see the android pattern of EMP having 1/3 EW and 2/3 Raid and 3D vice versa.
Was expected. Question is how devalued are regular epics becoming?
Sure it is nice to earn them in a T25 now, but what do they still mean with the amount of people having them?

Let's see how this applies once the 'Dragonforged' 6* are released - Can't wait... (lol..Thank you gree..)

Hi Phil,

As much as we would like, it would be hard to hold all t3 spots.

Last GW was very expensive when we went for 1-2.

I'm hoping they change the tier rewards soon ... no point getting t1 imo ...

[Pimatsu]

Ant venom
I asked to prove your points when you doubled your average points...you didn't do it.
And now you want to proves from others?
Really? Troll

[Ant venom]

Ant venom
I asked to prove your points when you doubled your average points...you didn't do it.
And now you want to proves from others?
Really? Troll

Your statement has nothing to do with the posts that are recently posted, we have moved on from the proof of epics or whatnot, if u wish to have proof or whatnot, feel free to pm me not randomly post something here that is off-topic from the recent posts.

Cheers;
Ant venom

[Marco_]

Let's see how this applies once the 'Dragonforged' 6* are released - Can't wait... (lol..Thank you gree..)
I guess after the introduction of rings and amulets, 6* now have something to distinguish themselves from 5* other that just jumping up atk and def: they could add health to the armors as 3rd stat and keep atk and def mostly the same...

[Phill - Immortal GM]

I guess after the introduction of rings and amulets, 6* now have something to distinguish themselves from 5* other that just jumping up atk and def: they could add health to the armors as 3rd stat and keep atk and def mostly the same...

def. a nicer idea than adding a third element. I like it.
and yes, stats are getting ridic. high, so a third attribute of health would be good, however it would need to be carefully balanced...Don't want an armor with 1200 HP and 5000 def...do we.. Lol




I wonder when they will come out. And Phill where did u find this intriguing info,

GREE releases pictures (rather puzzle pieces) of information on new epic leaks into the code on a roughly monthly basis.
They do the same for Chests, and on a new chest leak there were the prize-messages of "Rare!" "Super Rare!" "Epic!" etc, one of them was "Dragonforged!" so I assumed this is what the 6* will be titled.
It may be wrong (part of the reason I placed it into 'xxx' as it may be wrong, but doubt it)


They should come soon Ant. The prizing update had 2 reasons:
1. Making sure CL players hop over to KnD as 2 Epics is more attractive than one (even though they would have to spend way more for it as the CL T10 mins were roughly 100k)
1. Slow (or fast?) introduction to 6* armor



Hi Phil,
As much as we would like, it would be hard to hold all t3 spots.
Last GW was very expensive when we went for 1-2.
I'm hoping they change the tier rewards soon ... no point getting t1 imo ...

I saw the graph Kent posted, was surprised that your T3 was that high actually. Ours locked down pretty nicely at 50 or 60m.
Difference in T25 was obviously massive as usual, but 30m was way too much for T25 droid lol.


The reason for T1, which is the only real motivation now (ergo, pointless, good job gree) is to hit 100k+ in raids.
I don't see how that is attractive. Some top spenders are now running T3 or T25 as they simply don't want 2x Epic+, you seem to agree and you are usually a T1 runner, too.

SO perhaps gree should overthink that?

[Ju Nation]

I saw the graph Kent posted, was surprised that your T3 was that high actually. Ours locked down pretty nicely at 50 or 60m.
Difference in T25 was obviously massive as usual, but 30m was way too much for T25 droid lol.


The reason for T1, which is the only real motivation now (ergo, pointless, good job gree) is to hit 100k+ in raids.
I don't see how that is attractive. Some top spenders are now running T3 or T25 as they simply don't want 2x Epic+, you seem to agree and you are usually a T1 runner, too.

SO perhaps gree should overthink that?

T1 used to not only be for bragging rights, but also for the rights to be the only 40 dudes getting the war epic +. so now seems like 120 peeps can get it, don't feel that special anymore.

tbh, i feel like just running t25 for a really cheap war epic now. just did t25 raid using only less than 30 gems and i scored 15 Million points.

Gree need to relook at the new reward tiers soon. I hope they do something about it when they release the 6 stars.

[Ant venom]

def. a nicer idea than adding a third element. I like it.
and yes, stats are getting ridic. high, so a third attribute of health would be good, however it would need to be carefully balanced...Don't want an armor with 1200 HP and 5000 def...do we.. Lol


GREE releases pictures (rather puzzle pieces) of information on new epic leaks into the code on a roughly monthly basis.
They do the same for Chests, and on a new chest leak there were the prize-messages of "Rare!" "Super Rare!" "Epic!" etc, one of them was "Dragonforged!" so I assumed this is what the 6* will be titled.
It may be wrong (part of the reason I placed it into 'xxx' as it may be wrong, but doubt it)


They should come soon Ant. The prizing update had 2 reasons:




1. Making sure CL players hop over to KnD as 2 Epics is more attractive than one (even though they would have to spend way more for it as the CL T10 mins were roughly 100k)
1. Slow (or fast?) introduction to 6* armor

I saw the graph Kent posted, was surprised that your T3 was that high actually. Ours locked down pretty nicely at 50 or 60m.
Difference in T25 was obviously massive as usual, but 30m was way too much for T25 droid lol.


The reason for T1, which is the only real motivation now (ergo, pointless, good job gree) is to hit 100k+ in raids.


I don't see how that is attractive. Some top spenders are now running T3 or T25 as they simply don't want 2x Epic+, you seem to agree and you are usually a T1 runner, too.



SO perhaps gree should overthink that?


Phill, Reversal the Mod on the GREE Forum has confirmed that the new 6* will be called DragonForged in this new video, he also had the picture of what the first 6* is gonna look like, the color of what the stars would look like for it and also the name in his video. Phill can u also give me the link to where u found the info for the GREE leaks either here or through pm (as a way so that the info won't be loss, lol).

Thank you and much appreciated,
Ant venom

[Kent Chai]

Phill, Reversal the Mod on the GREE Forum has confirmed that the new 6* will be called DragonForged in this new video, he also had the picture of what the first 6* is gonna look like, the color of what the stars would look like for it and also the name in his video. Phill can u also give me the link to where u found the info for the GREE leaks either here or through pm (as a way so that the info won't be loss, lol).

Thank you and much appreciated,
Ant venom
The official photo has been posted on Facebook.