Serious question for moderators, Gree, regarding the terms of service

[montecore]

Recently I have seen some accounts banned permanently, not for cheating or hacking, but allegedly because they were transferred from the original owner to a new player after the original owner had decided to stop playing the game.

At the same time, I am aware of a number of accounts in Crime City which are still active, but also no longer being played by the original owner.

I am aware that such transfers are a violation of the TOS. For a while, it appeared Gree didn't care so long as the new owner was actively purchasing gold, similar to other TOS violations that Gree selectively ignores (selling uzis/bricks for in game cash, etc, as has been clarified as acceptable by moderators on this forum).

It's now become quite apparent that Gree no longer feels that account transfers are acceptable, if they ever were. If Gree is interested in enforcing this policy across all teams, or at least with a goal of shaking any of these accounts out of the game, I would like to know what SPECIFIC evidence is required for support to go forward with a permanent account ban.

I ask for specifics, because I have seen accounts in The Art of War reported, accounts everyone in the game know are transferred, yet the accounts keep playing. At the same time, it is disheartening to see accounts played by friends suddenly banned for doing the same thing.

We all want a fair game. It's time to enforce this policy consistently, or not at all. Please tell the forum what to provide when reporting accounts. In the event that Art of War accounts are playing by a different set of rules and don't get banned regardless of any and all evidence provided, a public statement to this effect would be equally appreciated.

Thanks.

[montecore]

If anyone is wondering what brought this up, it appears that The Art of War, probably frustrated at being unable to beat SAS head to head and complete streaks, not to mention finally losing first place to SAS, has resorted to reporting accounts.

The Art of War has been selling accounts for a very long time. It appears the board policy is that if the accounts stays in TAW, it is fine. If it goes to another syndicate, that's fine too. If it goes to SAS, it gets reported.

I am not sure if I am going to report any accounts or not. My personal feelings is that people should be able to do what they want with the accounts, but I also understand that my personal feelings are meaningless against the TOS. I will say this, however: I would advise ANYONE with a transferred account to NOT join The Art of War. If you're in TAW with a transferred account now, I suggest you leave.

Reporting accounts is messed up. But having a whole syndicate selling accounts to the community, and then selectively reporting the ones you don't want to see on an opponent, is far worse. FC/TAW have now banned four accounts. SAS has banned zero. Just because TAW is a rats nest doesn't mean SAS should stoop to their level and rat back. But I genuinely don't know what to do when I see a TOS policy so unfairly enforced, and they obviously are too childish to take their losses without resorting to something like this.

[Dipstik]

About time this gets enforced. Apologies will be accepted in private message form... No need to abase yourselves publicly.

[montecore]

About time this gets enforced. Apologies will be accepted in private message form... No need to abase yourselves publicly.

Personally I wish they would just ignore it, but I also understand why they have the policy. It's being enforced. If they aren't going to back off the policy they need to enforce it consistently.

I'm really not sure what to do. Some of the old TAW accounts are on top 100 teams, top 50s, top 10s. The only reasonable thing to do is rat any transferred accounts on TAW until they are banned, and if not, just make sure the whole community knows about this. But I don't want to rat anyone, even TAW scum who bought a TAW scum account.

If anyone has any suggestions other than "just let them ban all the transferred accounts in SAS they can find while you let them keep all their transferred accounts" I would love to hear them.

[Dipstik]

Offer the ones in lower syndicates spots on SAS until they get banned. That would probably work for most of them. Nothing you can do about the ones currently in fight club and still spending fight club levels of gold.

[montecore]

Offer the ones in lower syndicates spots on SAS until they get banned. That would probably work for most of them. Nothing you can do about the ones currently in fight club and still spending fight club levels of gold.

SAS made Fight Club rage quit (in tears!) a while ago. If TAW accounts are immune from TOS violations, that's fine, I just want a moderator to state it as a fact and not just our projection based on how the rules are applied so differently.

[Dipstik]

Of course they'll never make it official, but they're also not going to ban their top spenders. That should be obvious.

[montecore]

One of the accounts that was banned hit the 10k bonus 11 times one year. How is that not a big spender?

[therealbengie]

JHC monte just stop it. now.

no one cares about SAS Vs the world other than SAS, and even then its mainly you. please just leave it alone now, no one cares.

Also do you realise how much of a whiney sore loser you sound with all these pathetic threads?

get over the fact that you are not wanted in the No1 team on this game and move on.

[Winnson]

Employees at Gree are allowed to shuffle an account between them to keep it active.

Real money spending players are not expected to do the same thing.

Hope that clears it up.

[Winnson]

*among them.

Sorry Grammar Nazi.

[Dipstik]

One of the accounts that was banned hit the 10k bonus 11 times one year. How is that not a big spender?

By "big spenders" I meant their BIGGEST spenders. You deal with people in this game that I pretty much ignore... how does that amount compare to the top 20 spenders in Fight Club? It's all relative. That kind of spending probably buys you a lot of leniency from the game administrators, but not enough, obviously.

I'd love to see every cheater in Fight Club banned too, but I also recognize that favoritism exists.

[Winnson]

The problem is not anymore though. After spending that much money for so long, it is no longer necessary for the top accounts.

That is in fact the problem right now.

You can only get so big before getting bigger just doesn't matter that much anymore.

[Vile Lynn]

One of the accounts that was banned hit the 10k bonus 11 times one year. How is that not a big spender?

Are they still hitting the 10k bonus?
"Spending big" and "spent big" are two entirely different players.

Anyway, I've always advocated against the double-standard with transferred accounts.
The most we can do is report and let GREE sort them out.

[Winnson]

Yeah, past tense to get OP doesn't work so well for Tanaka-San's profits right now.

You're as good as your last 10k gold bonus in his eyes bro.

[Winnson]

Yeah, past tense to get OP doesn't work so well for Tanaka-San's profits right now.

You're as good as your last 10k gold bonus in his eyes bro.

[Winnson]

So pay up, or lose the account.

[Dipstik]

So pay up, or lose the account.

Or sell it to someone who will :)

[Winnson]

And then banned.

[Vile Lynn]

yeah, lol!extras

[Hansell]

JHC monte just stop it. now.

no one cares about SAS Vs the world other than SAS, and even then its mainly you. please just leave it alone now, no one cares.

Also do you realise how much of a whiney sore loser you sound with all these pathetic threads?

get over the fact that you are not wanted in the No1 team on this game and move on.

You're right, we don't care. So move along sir. Monte is asking only for consistency and fairness.

[montecore]

JHC monte just stop it. now.

no one cares about SAS Vs the world other than SAS, and even then its mainly you. please just leave it alone now, no one cares.

Also do you realise how much of a whiney sore loser you sound with all these pathetic threads?

get over the fact that you are not wanted in the No1 team on this game and move on.

The #1 team is SAS. Always has been. Emphasis on TEAM.

[Dipstik]

The #1 team is SAS. Always has been. Emphasis on TEAM.

Quiet monte. You made one post that made a little sense, but don't go squandering all your credibility again right away.

[Max Power]

I too believe in consistent application of the rules, and fairness in applying them. I just don't wait until I am on the short end of the stick before mentioning it, for fear that I would look like a butthurt hypocrite.

[Sleazy_P_Martini]

It seems like you are specifically inquiring about taw accounts and nobody else's. Perhaps this would gain more traction if it didn't seem like an attack on taw. I mean let's face it, you've been out for taw blood since day one. So you can see how this would look like just another SAS attempt to weaken them somehow. I know you mean all sold accounts tho. Cuz we've talked about this in chats.

So how can you get gree to take action on this? In clash, whenever a top team doesn't get the response from the devs that they wanted, they create "syndicate" with a name that describes their gripe. Then they rank in first. So everyone sees the message.

Perhaps change name of sas syndicates to something like BAN SOLD TAW ACCOUNTS. Then make sure sas places first in war. How big of a black eye will it be for gree to have that message on the district map? And make sure all sas members change name to same.

That's how I'd bring attention to it.

[Weasel]

The #1 team is SAS. Always has been. Emphasis on TEAM.

Never takes long for montebore to choke on his own foot.

Thanks for the laugh.

You may resume your whining.

[Vile Lynn]

Recently I have seen some accounts banned permanently...

Just curious... How can a ban be premature on an acct that violates the ToS?

[montecore]

By my count, TAW has definitely banned two accounts on SAS, and very likely four. SAS already is getting the short end of the stick. Total accounts on taw banned by SAS: zero. I am bringing this up now, as opposed to a month or two ago, because it appeared GREE stopped caring about transferred accounts some time ago. I kept quiet when one account was banned, because TAW basically said that the original owner is a rat and a rip off artist, and he did it himself. Seeing two in SAS banned out of the blue makes this seem unlikely.

Enforce the rules consistently or don't enforce them at all. I have better things to do than dig through screenshots of old black market ads, but as TAW has apparently given up trying to defeat SAS in a fair fight, they are stooping to this.

I am again warning anyone in TAW with a transferred account to leave before war, and if anyone is considering joining them with a transferred account, they are putting their account at risk. I am not promising that their accounts will be reported but barring reinstatement of the other accounts I am not sure what else to do.

[montecore]

Never takes long for montebore to choke on his own foot.

Thanks for the laugh.

You may resume your whining.

If TAW is a better team, ask why they didn't get streaks last war, and who broke them. I didn't say TAW had less gold. Just that they are an inferior team.

[Evan1000]

I honestly don't see the point in transferring accounts being a bannable offence. Eventually, when I get sick of GREE's crap.. or I just get bored of the game, I'll retire but don't want all the hard work I put into my account wasted, and may pass it on to a friend that would enjoy the game and my account as I did. What's so wrong with that?

Also, come on, sorry Monte, but out of a 60 player syndicate, you can't blame the whole TAW for one tattletale, even though they should boot the tattletale because they're making the syn look bad. Just like you can't blame SAS for complaining about it because, 4 banned accounts is pretty much a **** move on the TAW player's part.

[Perin]

Im pretty sure i know 2 of the 4 banned accounts as they helped my crew a BUNCH. Good guys, they allegedly transferred accounts but I watched this guy go from 700m attack to 2.5 bil over the course of a year battling with TAW, SAS & TCH. I really dont believe they transferred because they are in my mafia also. I say its your account, you should be able to transfer or sell if you please. 2 cool guys i know that havent played in a month or so because someone was bitter

[sister morphine]

Also, come on, sorry Monte, but out of a 60 player syndicate, you can't blame the whole TAW for one tattletale, even though they should boot the tattletale because they're making the syn look bad. Just like you can't blame SAS for complaining about it because, 4 banned accounts is pretty much a **** move on the TAW player's part.
If the allegation (that TAW are behind these bannings) is correct, your argument would be dependant on whether it's one member of TAW dishing the dirt on players with transferred accounts who've moved to SAS (and possibly without the knowledge of other TAW members) or whether it's an agreed policy cooked up by the "board" to indulge in such tactics.

[Evan1000]

If the allegation (that TAW are behind these bannings) is correct, your argument would be dependant on whether it's one member of TAW dishing the dirt on players with transferred accounts who've moved to SAS (and possibly without the knowledge of other TAW members) or whether it's an agreed policy cooked up by the "board" to indulge in such tactics.

That's what SAS is accusing TAW of doing, but I highly doubt it. That'd be stupid on TAW's part, as they have a "reputation" to uphold, and if this got out that they were as a syndicate intentionally reporting accounts on only SAS teams to help them in war, well, that'd be bad.

[Vile Lynn]

Gotta love the massive superiority complex they get after the transfer is complete.
Then they realize being DL is lame and their stats will never grow without tons of gold.

GREE should put some moles in those black market chat rooms and let the hammer fly!

So, what is the score?
TAW 2 bans Vs SAS 4 bans?
SAS wins!

[Weasel]

If TAW is a better team, ask why they didn't get streaks last war, and who broke them. I didn't say TAW had less gold. Just that they are an inferior team.

Ask TAW how much they make SAS overspend. Then ask yourselves why you think you've won anything after letting them wring out your wallets for Gree. It's not like anybody in TAW missing out on a few peanuts of stats will have anything to cry about. For many of them, making SAS overspend is the win. They've been the best since they were Fight Club, they've got nothing left to prove in that department.


I honestly don't see the point in transferring accounts being a bannable offence. Eventually, when I get sick of GREE's crap.. or I just get bored of the game, I'll retire but don't want all the hard work I put into my account wasted, and may pass it on to a friend that would enjoy the game and my account as I did. What's so wrong with that?

Jeeze, who needs enemies if they've got friends like you?

"Hey buddy, I've got this game that was really fun for a while but now I can't %#@$& stand it and want it out of my life. You want it?"

[Weasel]

That's what SAS is accusing TAW of doing, but I highly doubt it. That'd be stupid on TAW's part, as they have a "reputation" to uphold, and if this got out that they were as a syndicate intentionally reporting accounts on only SAS teams to help them in war, well, that'd be bad.

Reputation? In an anonymous internet phone game?

Get real.

[Dipstik]

Evan, you'll probably understand when you're older.

[bdub]

I don't know the rules of the forum, that's why a ****ing cuss and generally and don't give a ****.

[Dipstik]

No, that's never been the rule.

[bdub]

and player names right?

[I love tacos]

and player names right?If you had spent enough for the streaks you would be happier.

[Dipstik]

I'll give you a hint, b... There's a link on the front page. You might want to look at the second paragraph under "inappropriate content."

[Blaggard]

I would advise ANYONE with a transferred account to NOT join The Art of War


By my count, TAW has definitely banned two accounts on SAS, and very likely four.

Well now. Looks like the best place to go for anyone with a transferred account is TAW and absolutely NOT SAS...excellent job on recruiting, Monte.

The TAW inner circle are most pleased with your work.

[Evan1000]

Jeeze, who needs enemies if they've got friends like you?

"Hey buddy, I've got this game that was really fun for a while but now I can't %#@$& stand it and want it out of my life. You want it?"

Aha, sorry you're right, what kind of a friend would I be if I referred anyone to a game ran by GREE

[Evan1000]

Reputation? In an anonymous internet phone game?

Get real.

That's why "reputation" is in quotes

[sister morphine]

That's what SAS is accusing TAW of doing, but I highly doubt it. That'd be stupid on TAW's part, as they have a "reputation" to uphold, and if this got out that they were as a syndicate intentionally reporting accounts on only SAS teams to help them in war, well, that'd be bad.
There's some out there take this game way too seriously. ;)

[Evan1000]

There's some out there take this game way too seriously. ;)

Haha, ik, it's funny. Drama in general is stupid, but over a phone game?

[Garland Greene]

When untold hundrerds of thousands of dollars (millions even) are spent by a single syndicate, drama is inevitable

[montecore]

That's what SAS is accusing TAW of doing, but I highly doubt it. That'd be stupid on TAW's part, as they have a "reputation" to uphold, and if this got out that they were as a syndicate intentionally reporting accounts on only SAS teams to help them in war, well, that'd be bad.

For the record, the first two accounts were banned nine months to a year ago. They were indeed reported by "the board". "The board" or at least the boqrd members I have talked to say they don't know anything about the two recent ones, haven't heard anything, and of course can't be bothered to pursue it or out a stop to it. Very typical TAW lack of accountability.

[montecore]

Well now. Looks like the best place to go for anyone with a transferred account is TAW and absolutely NOT SAS...excellent job on recruiting, Monte.

The TAW inner circle are most pleased with your work.

As I said earlier, my advice for any transferred accounts in TAW is to leave before the next war. And if you plan on joining them with a transferred account,I would advise against that as well.

[HavingFun]

The fact you felt that you needed to add the word serious in your thread title made me chuckle.

[Rjc]

Monte,

SAS and TAW are why this game is so bad and poorly run. The constant over spending just reinforces all of the bad decisions made by GREE. If you really want to make a difference and want GREE to take you/SAS seriously. STOP SPENDING! That's all it will take. No need to complain on the forums. No need for people to insult you or SAS. You can control what happens. Try it. You might actually like the changes that SAS would be responsible for.

[aarondavidsdad]

Monte,

SAS and TAW are why this game is so bad and poorly run. The constant over spending just reinforces all of the bad decisions made by GREE. If you really want to make a difference and want GREE to take you/SAS seriously. STOP SPENDING! That's all it will take. No need to complain on the forums. No need for people to insult you or SAS. You can control what happens. Try it. You might actually like the changes that SAS would be responsible for.

Pride won't allow any of the top teams, especially the top 2, to even consider spending less.

[montecore]

Pride won't allow any of the top teams, especially the top 2, to even consider spending less.

I disagree with this view. A cheap war would be fun.

[Red BD]

SAS made Fight Club rage quit (in tears!) a while ago. If TAW accounts are immune from TOS violations, that's fine, I just want a moderator to state it as a fact and not just our projection based on how the rules are applied so differently.
Montecore, you are SO right on this issue. That said, upon reflection, one could say that the inter-relationships with the big spending conglomerates is reflective of the real life relations between organized crime and the government.
Problem is, it goes beyond the boundaries of a game (in both instances).

[Max Power]

I disagree with this view. A cheap war would be fun.

There is nothing stopping you.

[Weasel]

There is nothing stopping you.

Pride.

Looks like montebore just inserted his other foot.

LOL! Both feet in the same thread this time! What a tool.

[montecore]

Pride.

Looks like montebore just inserted his other foot.

LOL! Both feet in the same thread this time! What a tool.

Wait and see.

[willis3]

Montecore has a personal vendetta against TAW and its members.
When ever something goes wrong , SAS always blames TAW.
THIS THREAD CLEARLY STATES EXACTLY THAT!

[legalious]

Please refrain from attacking each other. If you find that someone has purchased an account from other players, please send in a ticket with any available screen shots and information. Sharing, Selling, Donating accounts that do not belong to you is a breach of the TOS and Gree takes that seriously.

Gree does see from other forms of communications (Line/Groupme), that other people are purchasing accounts and has been banning those.

[Evan1000]

Sharing, Selling, Donating accounts that do not belong to you is a breach of the TOS and Gree takes that seriously.

Why?

Extras

[Dipstik]

If you see a database error, please don't keep hitting "post" over and over...

From Gree's perspective, if someone wants to spend $500 on Crime City, that money should be spent on gold, not to pay off someone who's bored of the game and wants out.
From a player's perspective, we all want to be the strongest in the game. If someone quits, they're out. It's really frustrating watching five different people take over the same account, none of whom have put in the same work or money you've put in, and watching that account beat you over and over again.

[Weasel]

Why? What's the point?

All accounts are owned by Gree. You can't legally sell something that doesn't belong to you. Luckily for those involved, instead of taking legal action Gree is just banning accounts.

There's also the issue of someone technically "saving" thousands of dollars by paying someone a fraction of that for an account rather than paying Gree the cost of building that account. They may still spend a lot with the account, but there's no way for Gree to "recover" the lost revenue from somebody paying a third party for Gree's services.

Not to mention, as Dipstik correctly points out, attrition is an important part of these kinds of games. If the strongest accounts are consistently passed down from one person to the next, eventually nobody will bother paying Gree at all because no amount of money spent by one person on one account can compete with an unlimited number of individuals matching that amount on a single account.

Then there's that gold bonus program. Why spend $10k individually to qualify for the top tier if your syndicate can keep a "group" account on which they can spend $170 each for the same result?

[Dipstik]

Gree cannot sue you for violating the TOS. Their remedy is to ban you from all services and delete any offending accounts.

[Winnson]

I can see why Gree doesn't want OP old accounts passed around. They're OverPowered and if the person playing it left, the account should go with that person. Makes perfect sense.

However, if Gree has turned a blind eye to it until just now and then are selectively banning OverPowered accounts, that sucks.

If all accounts belonging to someone that is not the original owner of that account are being wiped, fine.

If some are going and some are staying depending on your current affiliation, that is definitely not fine.

I believe that's all Monte is trying to say, and it sounds fair enough.

[TheJess]

There is nothing at all morally or criminally wrong with transferring an account for a fee. However, it is common for game companies to attempt to bar such a practice for the reasons Weasel articulated, namely to manage their revenues.

Whether the SAS syndicates decide to report people who sell their accounts is their own prerogative, and whether it is an underhanded way to compete is anyone's to debate.

However, it is clear to nearly everyone, except the usual troll, that it smells of jealousy and desperation. And, the way SAS chose to announce their decision to report transfers leaves the typical bad taste.

[sister morphine]

There is nothing at all morally or criminally wrong with transferring an account for a fee. However, it is common for game companies to attempt to bar such a practice for the reasons Weasel articulated, namely to manage their revenues.

Whether the SAS syndicates decide to report people who sell their accounts is their own prerogative, and whether it is an underhanded way to compete is anyone's to debate.

However, it is clear to nearly everyone, except the usual troll, that it smells of jealousy and desperation. And, the way SAS chose to announce their decision to report transfers leaves the typical bad taste.
And what of the allegation that TAW have already (selectively) reported transfers? Does that taste better or worse.

[Vile Lynn]

GREE does see from other forms of communications (Line/Groupme), that other people are purchasing accounts and has been banning those.

We are discussing outcomes now?

GREE is spying in our 3rd-party chat rooms?
omg, who knew! :confused:

[Weasel]

There is nothing at all morally or criminally wrong with transferring an account for a fee. However, it is common for game companies to attempt to bar such a practice for the reasons Weasel articulated, namely to manage their revenues.

Whether the SAS syndicates decide to report people who sell their accounts is their own prerogative, and whether it is an underhanded way to compete is anyone's to debate.

However, it is clear to nearly everyone, except the usual troll, that it smells of jealousy and desperation. And, the way SAS chose to announce their decision to report transfers leaves the typical bad taste.

There is nothing morally wrong with transferring an account for a fee? I'm no lawyer, so really can't say much about the legality of it, but exchanging for monetary gain an item/product which does not belong to you, thus depriving the actual owner of said item or product of their due earnings, is not right from any angle. IMO, that is tantamount to theft.

Spin it however you want, people who sell accounts are making a profit from selling something which they did not create, invent, produce, etc., and that they do not, have not, and never will control ownership of.

[Evan1000]

If you see a database error, please don't keep hitting "post" over and over...

Sorry, I have a habit of doing that. Even if there is no error :p

And I see your guys points, but I'm looking at it from the point where its a freaking phone game and people shouldn't care if an account is passed down.

If you had something valuable (not saying a crime city account is in any way valuable), and you gave it to your kid, who sells it to his friend. Did you lose anything? Other than something sentimental to you. GREE doesn't lose any money from sold accounts. If anything they just made a new paying customer

[Weasel]

Sorry, I have a habit of doing that. Even if there is no error :p

And I see your guys points, but I'm looking at it from the point where its a freaking phone game and people shouldn't care if an account is passed down.

If you had something valuable (not saying a crime city account is in any way valuable), and you gave it to your kid, who sells it to his friend. Did you lose anything? Other than something sentimental to you. GREE doesn't lose any money from sold accounts. If anything they just made a new paying customer

Your analogy is bad, and you should feel bad.

[Dipstik]

If they thought they came out ahead they'd allow it. Or selectively enforce it in special circumstances. The reason games like this usually have a rule against transferring accounts is because they assume it's better to make someone start from the beginning than to let them take a shortcut. If they want to get ahead that bad they'll spend more before they give up and quit.

Do you even try to think about these things or do you just pick a position and make whatever assumptions you need to support it?

[Evan1000]

If they thought they came out ahead they'd allow it. Or selectively enforce it in special circumstances. The reason games like this usually have a rule against transferring accounts is because they assume it's better to make someone start from the beginning than to let them take a shortcut. If they want to get ahead that bad they'll spend more before they give up and quit.

Do you even try to think about these things or do you just pick a position and make whatever assumptions you need to support it?

Alright, I see where you're getting at with that. Still don't agree with banning the sold account. That's a waste of all the former player's effort and/or cash.

And well, I have my position, but can't find an argument that would match that of a lawyer's and a weasel's

[montecore]

There is nothing at all morally or criminally wrong with transferring an account for a fee. However, it is common for game companies to attempt to bar such a practice for the reasons Weasel articulated, namely to manage their revenues.

Whether the SAS syndicates decide to report people who sell their accounts is their own prerogative, and whether it is an underhanded way to compete is anyone's to debate.

However, it is clear to nearly everyone, except the usual troll, that it smells of jealousy and desperation. And, the way SAS chose to announce their decision to report transfers leaves the typical bad taste.

I never said SAS had decided to report transfers. I still think it's a lame thing to do. It's been talked about.

[smokey77]

Everyone in this game should have to start at the same place, level one with a blank hood and no stats. If someone has enough of the game and quits then they're account should quit with them. The selling of accounts goes on in an industrial scale. When I was looking for a new syn to join recently,I was told by two people that my stats were bad but that wasn't a problem as I could join a room and buy a low level account for $50!! People are so lazy nowadays they want the world and they want it yesterday. It just makes a joke out of the people who actually put the time and effort in to build their player/hood.

[Dat Guy]

There is nothing morally wrong with transferring an account for a fee? I'm no lawyer, so really can't say much about the legality of it, but exchanging for monetary gain an item/product which does not belong to you, thus depriving the actual owner of said item or product of their due earnings, is not right from any angle. IMO, that is tantamount to theft.

Spin it however you want, people who sell accounts are making a profit from selling something which they did not create, invent, produce, etc., and that they do not, have not, and never will control ownership of.

Gree did not do ALL of the creating though. Gree can create the blank hoods and level one characters. It is up to others to do the rest. The characters that are being sold have been "created" by those that have spent, in most cases, YEARS and LOTS of MONEY.

Why shouldn't the creator of those accounts be allowed to be compensated for their effort if a market exists for such creations?

[Dipstik]

Because it's a game and games have rules?

[sister morphine]

Gree did not do ALL of the creating though. Gree can create the blank hoods and level one characters. It is up to others to do the rest. The characters that are being sold have been "created" by those that have spent, in most cases, YEARS and LOTS of MONEY.

Why shouldn't the creator of those accounts be allowed to be compensated for their effort if a market exists for such creations?
It's like any other product in the world of computing. You have a license to use it (in this case the license continues to be free of charge) and nothing more. All rights remain with the company, whether you like it or not. The player's "creation" is limited to use of the various buildings, weapons etc designed by the company for use in the game. How much money any individual player spends to obtain those items is down to them; there's no obligation to spend.

[OffensivelyNamedGuy]

The thing about buying a decent account is that it actually encourages the buyer to use gold to protect his initial investment in the account.

The type of person who is willing to buy a crime city account is not likely to be someone fresh off the street who has never played the game before. It's someone who already knows the game mechanics and economics who can place a value on the stats of the account. The price they pay for the account must be a discount on the price they would pay in gold to reach similar stats.

I would wager that the main reason this person would consider buying another account is because the cost to reach their desired stat level with gold alone is prohibitive. Without the opportunity to buy an account at a discount, this person (and therefore the general population) is likely to spend less on gold.

Remeber guys, Crime City is past its prime. Why would anyone buy in at this point anyway? New blood is obviously on the decline, hence why we see Gree gouging old timers as much as possible with the rerelease of LTBs, the last drop of decency left to milk. It may not hurt if this practice is not wide-spread, but banning sold accounts will not help their bottom line at this point in the game's life-cycle.

[stepxhenlockwood17]

This is a classic case of human trafficking.....these avatars are being pimped against their will and GREE is just looking out for their welfare.

[John_Locke]

Let's keep this on topic, guys. The real issue Monte is bringing up isn't the morality of transferring accounts; behind the thinly veiled jabs and couched words, he's pointing out another instance of Gree giving the top team, and only the top team, an advantage. Remember that war where Lights Out completed the steak and FC didn't, yet both teams got the prize?

Practices like that are what this discussion should be about, not quibbling over details on what's already been decided. It's in the TOS, people; there's nothing you can gain by whining about how unfair it is.

[John_Locke]

The thing about buying a decent account is that it actually encourages the buyer to use gold to protect his initial investment in the account.

One huge exception is if they're buying an overpowered account; I can tell you first hand that stat inflation is a very minor problem at the bottom, and my top 50 account, though it's been stagnant for over a month, still has stats 50x that of puerile I come across in wars. Buying a big account for a lower ranked syndicate is a one and done deal; set it up as the DL and watch the defensive wins pile up! Feed all your RB gold to it and watch it singlehandedly take down bosses your syndicate couldn't. Nothing in it for Gree then.

[TheJess]

And what of the allegation that TAW have already (selectively) reported transfers? Does that taste better or worse.

To real people, it just sounds like like the usual whine, lacking credibility.

[Weasel]

Gree did not do ALL of the creating though. Gree can create the blank hoods and level one characters. It is up to others to do the rest. The characters that are being sold have been "created" by those that have spent, in most cases, YEARS and LOTS of MONEY.

Why shouldn't the creator of those accounts be allowed to be compensated for their effort if a market exists for such creations?

"Doing the rest" does not involve creating anything. Gree is the creator of every account.

If possession is 9/10 of the law, and 100% of the information pertaining to any given account is stored on servers owned and opereated by Gree, Gree is also the sole owner of every account.


Let's keep this on topic, guys. The real issue Monte is bringing up isn't the morality of transferring accounts; behind the thinly veiled jabs and couched words, he's pointing out another instance of Gree giving the top team, and only the top team, an advantage. Remember that war where Lights Out completed the steak and FC didn't, yet both teams got the prize?

Practices like that are what this discussion should be about, not quibbling over details on what's already been decided. It's in the TOS, people; there's nothing you can gain by whining about how unfair it is.

According to montebore, the top team has always been SAS.

Gree handles issues on a case by case basis, always have. There is no proof of any favouritism, only what is sometimes perceived by crybabies as special treatment.

The details of any given issue are not shared by Gree, so unless the affected party/parties clearly and fully explain the issue to people who have no part in resolving the matter, the best anyone has is speculation.

And with montebore/SAS, it always devolves into a ridiculous game of broken telephone. An additional problem there is that whatever the original message delivered to them, it was likely intentionally broken to begin with.

Pulling SAS puppet strings has been the real game for a lot of people for a long time. It's cheaper than paying Gree, and while being far from challenging it does provide the same if not greater enjoyment than the actual game itself.

[John_Locke]

Gree handles issues on a case by case basis, always have. There is no proof of any favouritism...

Thanks for that; I need a good laugh today! If you genuinely think companies don't treat big spenders differently than others, you're in sore need of some quality one on one time with the business world.

[montecore]

TheJess: Assuming you feel my accusations lack credibility, many TAW members have basically told me that they think the rat is in TAW, they just don't know who it is.

Weasel: Don't confuse the words "top" and "best". SAS has rarely been the "top" team. They have always been the "best" team.

[Weasel]

Thanks for that; I need a good laugh today! If you genuinely think companies don't treat big spenders differently than others, you're in sore need of some quality one on one time with the business world.

Not entirely relevant to this situation.

A player report is a player report. If a sold account is reported to Gree and an investigation determines the report to be true, the origin of the report is not relevant. OP is just going on about some next "TAW did.. Whatever" rant because that's what he does.

[Dipstik]

Monty may be a tool who's wedded to his overspending second-ranked team, but he's (coincidentally) probably right about this. It may be human nature to bend the rules for your best customers, but as players of a game we should expect even-handed application of the rules.

I hope to see many more accounts deleted as the policy is enforced uniformly.

[montecore]

Not entirely relevant to this situation.

A player report is a player report. If a sold account is reported to Gree and an investigation determines the report to be true, the origin of the report is not relevant. OP is just going on about some next "TAW did.. Whatever" rant because that's what he does.

Yes, it was probably those damned molly maguires who reported the accounts. Could never have been TAW!

[Perin]

Monty may be a tool who's wedded to his overspending second-ranked team, but he's (coincidentally) probably right about this. It may be human nature to bend the rules for your best customers, but as players of a game we should expect even-handed application of the rules.

I hope to see many more accounts deleted as the policy is enforced uniformly.

You said it all.

[Weasel]

I hope to see many more accounts deleted as the policy is enforced uniformly.

This, I agree with.


Yes, it was probably those damned molly maguires who reported the accounts. Could never have been TAW!

Whomever is responsible for sending a player report is irrelevant. Sold accounts violate the TOS regardless of the spend level of the person or persons who report them.

You're just mad because maybe TAW (or someone, anyway) reported some accounts that you would have preferred to keep amongst your group. That's TS for you. Get over it. People buying and selling accounts should be aware of the risks. Buyer beware and all that. Ignorance is not the same as innocence.

[montecore]

And that is why, I am stating very publicly, that SAS will as always take a higher road than TAW did.

IF you are in TAW, or thinking of joining TAW, with a transferred account, leave before battle.
IF you do not, there is a very high likelihood that you account will be reported. There is a higher likelihood that all of the sordid details will be published to the community, and it will be left up to them to report the account or not.
IF TAW tries to do something cute and claim a technicality, such as several players all going to start a new syndicate or join an existing one, the same thing applies.

This gives anyone who bought an account a fair chance to protect it, something TAW never did, and also makes it clear that TAW will only benefit from having transferred accounts on their syndicate if the owners wish to risk them being banned. It also means SAS won't necessarily have to report anyone, which was a revolting prospect. If the game has devolved to a point where it's a matter of which team can screw over more people who bought accounts, I really don't know why anyone would want to play.

[Weasel]

Blah blah blah.

Reporting accounts that violate the TOS is within the rules of the game. If that's become an effective strategy in defeating your rivals, so be it. The ones doing the buying and selling of accounts have only themselves to blame for that. What you're saying is both syndicates knowingly violate(d) the TOS, but only because that is being used against you as an effective strategy do you have an issue with it.

Fight fire with fire, in this case. Forum tears certainly won't do much, if anything.

[montecore]

Blah blah blah.

Reporting accounts that violate the TOS is within the rules of the game. If that's become an effective strategy in defeating your rivals, so be it. The ones doing the buying and selling of accounts have only themselves to blame for that. What you're saying is both syndicates knowingly violate(d) the TOS, but only because that is being used against you as an effective strategy do you have an issue with it.

Fight fire with fire, in this case. Forum tears certainly won't do much, if anything.

Glad we agree on something. Yes, they violate the TOS. Yes, there are transferred accounts on every syndicate in the top 400. SAS has higher standards and would prefer not to act like rats, but as you have said, that may be the only recourse. A shame TAW had to bring it to this.

[Weasel]

Don't act like SAS has some moral high ground to stand on. Violating the TOS is violating the TOS. In other words, cheating is cheating.

And you're as guilty as those you are naming and shaming.

[montecore]

Don't act like SAS has some moral high ground to stand on. Violating the TOS is violating the TOS. In other words, cheating is cheating.

And you're as guilty as those you are naming and shaming.

As guilty as every other syndicate in the game, including yours, which happens to have more than one transferred account. Also worth pointing out that trading uzis for in game cash, bricks for in game cash, bricks for uzis, etc is a TOS violation. Know any players that do this?

[Dipstik]

As guilty as every other syndicate in the game, including yours, which happens to have more than one transferred account. Also worth pointing out that trading uzis for in game cash, bricks for in game cash, bricks for uzis, etc is a TOS violation. Know any players that do this?

I can't remember where, but I'm pretty sure GREE gave us an official position once that said trading in game stuff for other in game stuff is kosher. You just can't bring real money in or glitch the commodities youre trading.

[MK Loves You]

Snitches get stitches and left in ditches where I come from. But anything's fair in love and war.

[montecore]

I can't remember where, but I'm pretty sure GREE gave us an official position once that said trading in game stuff for other in game stuff is kosher. You just can't bring real money in or glitch the commodities youre trading.

So it's OK to buy an account with in game cash, uzis, or bricks?

And in any case, whether a forum moderator said it was OK or not, it's still a violation of the TOS, isn't it?

[Weasel]

As guilty as every other syndicate in the game, including yours, which happens to have more than one transferred account. Also worth pointing out that trading uzis for in game cash, bricks for in game cash, bricks for uzis, etc is a TOS violation. Know any players that do this?

More verbal diarrhoea. You have no clue which syndicate I'm in or what goes on there, there's no sense in pretending like you do.

As for the in game trades, you may have noticed an entire subforum dedicated to precisely that. Enough said there.


So it's OK to buy an account with in game cash, uzis, or bricks?

And in any case, whether a forum moderator said it was OK or not, it's still a violation of the TOS, isn't it?

http://replygif.net/i/114.gif

[Dipstik]

Thanks weasel... I was going to respond to that, but you summed my thoughts up nicely.

[t12pm]

Wouldn't it of been easier to just send tickets about the accounts instead of coming here and saying about it, you wouldn't of had to worry about everyone knowing SAS was ratting and all the other bs in this thread. Although the part about Uzis and bricks was pretty entertaining. The real funny part is you are telling said accounts to leave to be protected while at the same time whining about them being used

[MK Loves You]

Monte you seem like a straight shooting, straightforward, good ole fashion, god-fearing 'Murican......can we be friends?

[Max Power]

More verbal diarrhoea. You have no clue which syndicate I'm in or what goes on there, there's no sense in pretending like you do.



http://replygif.net/i/114.gif

For a guy that hammers on Gree for mispellings, you might consider spellcheck youself....LOL!

[TheJess]

Ironic that an unserious thread, having only relation to OPs usual paranoid trolling on TAW, is titled, Serious.

[Weasel]

For a guy that hammers on Gree for mispellings, you might consider spellcheck youself....LOL!

Spell check is on. No errors were caught. Some words legitimately have more than one correct spelling. Unfortunately for Gree, their typos have never been such words.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/diarrhoea

I could swear I did originally spell tha sans "o", so spell check must be responsible for that. Funny how my spell check inserts a variation of a spelling of a word, and someone tells me to use spellcheck. Having a Gree moment this morning yourself, sir? Lol

[sister morphine]

For a guy that hammers on Gree for mispellings, you might consider spellcheck youself....LOL!
You're picking him up on diarrhoea vs diarrhea? There's nothing wrong with either, though as a European I have to say the second (presumably) US spelling looks odd to me. :)

[Max Power]

Spell check is on. No errors were caught. Some words legitimately have more than one correct spelling. Unfortunately for Gree, their typos have never been such words.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/diarrhoea

I could swear I did originally spell tha sans "o", so spell check must be responsible for that. Funny how my spell check inserts a variation of a spelling of a word, and someone tells me to use spellcheck. Having a Gree moment this morning yourself, sir? Lol

LOL...as I was typing that, I was thinking to myself, "just my luck there will be a goofy international spelling for this".

And there is.

I get a lot of manuscripts from international authors, and I have never seen it spelled that way. Don't do many books on that affliction, fortunately.

[Perin]

Lol this thread is now about diarrhea. Or did it start out about diarrhea and we were unaware? Its all bulldiarrhea

[TheJess]

^^^^ Started that way with the OP. It's just not circumspect any longer.

[Weasel]

LOL...as I was typing that, I was thinking to myself, "just my luck there will be a goofy international spelling for this".

And there is.

I get a lot of manuscripts from international authors, and I have never seen it spelled that way. Don't do many books on that affliction, fortunately.

For what it's worth, I try to make sure I look up a word's correct spelling before pointing out a typo to Gree. And to be honest, I think minor spelling errors on an internet forum are usually insignificant. I certainly don't put them at the same level as spelling errors in a live virtual product run by people who are being paid for their skills. Or lack thereof, in some cases.

[Winnson]

Please refrain from attacking each other. If you find that someone has purchased an account from other players, please send in a ticket with any available screen shots and information. Sharing, Selling, Donating accounts that do not belong to you is a breach of the TOS and Gree takes that seriously.

Gree does see from other forms of communications (Line/Groupme), that other people are purchasing accounts and has been banning those.

http://www.joeclifford.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/InwJbP.jpg

[Winnson]

Someone good at photoshop should make the police car some kind of Greemobile!

:-)

[Winnson]

Everyone in this game should have to start at the same place, level one with a blank hood and no stats. If someone has enough of the game and quits then they're account should quit with them. The selling of accounts goes on in an industrial scale. When I was looking for a new syn to join recently,I was told by two people that my stats were bad but that wasn't a problem as I could join a room and buy a low level account for $50!! People are so lazy nowadays they want the world and they want it yesterday. It just makes a joke out of the people who actually put the time and effort in to build their player/hood.

QFT

Great post.

[HavingFun]

The fact you felt that you needed to add the word serious in your thread title made me chuckle.

My chuckle has transitioned to laughter. Discussing the word diarrhea seems fitting for this thread.

[montecore]

Wouldn't it of been easier to just send tickets about the accounts instead of coming here and saying about it, you wouldn't of had to worry about everyone knowing SAS was ratting and all the other bs in this thread. Although the part about Uzis and bricks was pretty entertaining. The real funny part is you are telling said accounts to leave to be protected while at the same time whining about them being used

I don't want to ban any accounts. I am doing this, and putting it out there, so the transferred accounts can find a syndicate other than TAW, and keep playing without being banned.

Not interested in stooping to the TAW level and anonymously banning accounts.

[Killa Cali]

Stop ratting and play the game. If you want 1st place join TAW instead of crying after every war

[Winnson]

Take away all the sold accounts, and it's a whole new ball game.

[willis3]

SAS reported 4 taw accounts in one war.if I remember correctly ... Why wait to ban them during war montecore? Why not report them now?
Banning in war clearly shows SAS wanting a win and will stoop to new lows to get there.

[Rookeye]

Can those trolling this post separate their animosity against the man/guild (montecore/SAS) from the serious question posed?

The fact that you resort to taunts and name calling, rather than deal with the topic, tells me you're not standing on any moral high ground here.

Interesting question...caught my attention from waaaay over there in another section ;) Truthfully, i hope they ban all transferred accounts equally. It violates TOS. This happens in more than one game, and the rules should apply equally. Period.

[montecore]

SAS reported 4 taw accounts in one war.if I remember correctly ... Why wait to ban them during war montecore? Why not report them now?
Banning in war clearly shows SAS wanting a win and will stoop to new lows to get there.

SAS has never gotten any TAW account banned. What are these four accounts?

[Weasel]

I don't want to ban any accounts. I am doing this, and putting it out there, so the transferred accounts can find a syndicate other than TAW, and keep playing without being banned.

Not interested in stooping to the TAW level and anonymously banning accounts.

So you are pro-sold/bought accounts, you condone violating the TOS (aka cheating), and you're trying to give tips on the subject of ban evasion.


SAS reported 4 taw accounts in one war.if I remember correctly ... Why wait to ban them during war montecore? Why not report them now?
Banning in war clearly shows SAS wanting a win and will stoop to new lows to get there.

What about that time SAS "discovered a cheater" and the whole drama that ensued resulted in a whine thread of unprecedented proportions, ultimately leading to SAS being awarded the 1st rank prizes?

Nobody should be fooled into believing SAS is doing any "favours" by posting this so-called warning. They will report any account they want when it suits them to do so.

[Rookeye]

The question of whether such bought/sold accounts should be banned IS material, and should be separated from the ongoing TAW/SAS rivalry. Whoever violates TOS should be banned. Pretty simple concept. ;)

[quityourwhining]

For a guy that hammers on Gree for mispellings, you might consider spellcheck youself....LOL!

misspelling

[montecore]

So you are pro-sold/bought accounts, you condone violating the TOS (aka cheating), and you're trying to give tips on the subject of ban evasion.



What about that time SAS "discovered a cheater" and the whole drama that ensued resulted in a whine thread of unprecedented proportions, ultimately leading to SAS being awarded the 1st rank prizes?

Nobody should be fooled into believing SAS is doing any "favours" by posting this so-called warning. They will report any account they want when it suits them to do so.

Good analogy. We warned TAW about the hacker before battle. They chose to ignore us and kept him anyway. Hopefully they won't ignore this.

I haven't cared about people buying/selling accounts for a long time. What I care about is a game atmosphere where transferred accounts on TAW get to play indefinitely while transferred accounts on SAS get banned.

Ban them all, or let them all play.

[willis3]

They will report any account they want when it suits them to do so.

In seems to be DURING WAR when sas chooses to ban accounts. This is clearly a tactic to win 1st. Can nobody see that?

Report now! Not IN war!

[Evan1000]

This thread still exists? Who cares? We should be fighting the real enemy GREE.. not each other!

[montecore]

In seems to be DURING WAR when sas chooses to ban accounts. This is clearly a tactic to win 1st. Can nobody see that?

Report now! Not IN war!

TAW reported one of the accounts during war. Further, the way TAW chews up and spits out players we have no way of knowing who will be on the taw roster next battle. Several taw members with transferred accounts have left already, I understand some are planning on staying, and I heard some new ones are joining.

We are being very nice by waiting until war and giving you and the rest of the taw scum a fair warning. A courtesy taw never gave any of the four accounts they have had banned.

[willis3]

TAW reported one of the accounts during war. Further, the way TAW chews up and spits out players we have no way of knowing who will be on the taw roster next battle. Several taw members with transferred accounts have left already, I understand some are planning on staying, and I heard some new ones are joining.

We are being very nice by waiting until war and giving you and the rest of the taw scum a fair warning. A courtesy taw never gave any of the four accounts they have had banned.

Why wait.. If you know of bought accounts, report! What's so difficult to understand? Why give bought accounts a chance?

[Weasel]

Why wait.. If you know of bought accounts, report! What's so difficult to understand? Why give bought accounts a chance?

Because they - OP and affiliated syndicate - want people to be allowed (to continue) to cheat. The whole purpose of this thread is to "warn" others about who might report them for cheating, who might not report them, and generally how to evade being banned for cheating.

There's no point using the terms "bought account", "sold account", or "TOS violation" here, that's just putting lipstick on a pig. This entire thread serves one purpose and one purpose only; to encourage cheating and provide "tips" (accuracy of said tips aside) on ban evasion.

The fact that it hasn't been locked yet and that OP isn't serving some sort of ban is surprising, but upon review of the posting guidelines, the topic of advocating cheating appears to be one of the omissions from this version. Every time they rewrite that code of conduct they miss stuff like this, but that's a different topic.

[Relic]

I'm closing this thread, it's gotten out of control with unfounded accusations of cheating and shaming of guilds. Please - remember that both are against our Code of Conduct (naming and shaming).