Raid Boss health inflation theory

[NexusImperium]

Hey Guys,

A member of my faction raised a point today that got me thinking:

Do the Gree devs use some formula based on the attack stats of the player base to calculate raid boss health?

If so, then the apollo unit glitch fiasco, which massively inflated player stats, may be to blame for the raid boss health situation, especially if the calculation ran before the glitch had been cleaned up.

Thoughts?

[Pidgeot]

Its a good theory but the last few cycles also saw huge increases even though a large amount of players saw a small increase.

[Ozymandias]

Yes, combined with the fact it had got too easy

[Pidgeot]

Yes, combined with the fact it had got too easy

Whats too easy? That subjective.

[Ozymandias]

It used to be that a well drilled t250 faction would just finish prestige, then it got so they could finish masters with a day to spare. That was too easy

[Pidgeot]

It used to be that a well drilled t250 faction would just finish prestige, then it got so they could finish masters with a day to spare. That was too easy

Okay, there are 39,750+ other factions. What about them?

[2MblaZ]

Okay, there are 39,750+ other factions. What about them?

I wouldn't count 80% of them where some minis or minis-minis sitting or just shell factions, or solo factions...

[Pidgeot]

I wouldn't count 80% of them where some minis or minis-minis sitting or just shell factions, or solo factions...

That is true but most top 100 factions have minis. However they still do play and compete.

[Ozymandias]

Okay, there are 39,750+ other factions. What about them?

There's barely 4000 active factions, and getting top 1500 requires only 20 players with a pulse. Normal and as far as they can get in prestige is for them.

[NO_BS]

The underlying overall theory is to increase gold spending for those who want to stay competitive. There is no revenue for Gree if there is parity, and no incentive for addicted heavy gold spenders to spend more if they cannot remain in the Top.

[Layon]

Raid Boss Health is about 10 times higher than last time. That is not inflation that is either a bug or just plain insane.

[Kefa]

What's getting missed is that the big change to RB health isn't so much that it's higher, but that the curve is completely different. It used to get exponentially more difficult as the levels increased, but now it's far more linear, almost perfectly linear, in fact, from level 60 or 70 on up to 150. A level 105 boss is more than 6 times what it was last time, while the 150 boss is only 1.05 times what it was last time.

So, yes, overall the difficulty is quite a bit higher - however, when you're struggling on that 125 and the past memories come up telling you, "if you struggle on a 125, a 150 will be impossible", tell those thoughts to go away because this is not the boss you're used to. If your team can drop a 125 in 60 minutes, you can drop a 150 in 90 minutes. Boss 150 is only 1.4x the HP of boss 125.

[Pidgeot]

There's barely 4000 active factions, and getting top 1500 requires only 20 players with a pulse. Normal and as far as they can get in prestige is for them.

But the cant compete in the bulk of event.

[KillerDriller]

Raid Boss Health is about 10 times higher than last time. That is not inflation that is either a bug or just plain insane.

Some are more than 50 times steonger than last time. Level 60 for example.

[sstuutss]

What's getting missed is that the big change to RB health isn't so much that it's higher, but that the curve is completely different. It used to get exponentially more difficult as the levels increased, but now it's far more linear, almost perfectly linear, in fact, from level 60 or 70 on up to 150. A level 105 boss is more than 6 times what it was last time, while the 150 boss is only 1.05 times what it was last time.

So, yes, overall the difficulty is quite a bit higher - however, when you're struggling on that 125 and the past memories come up telling you, "if you struggle on a 125, a 150 will be impossible", tell those thoughts to go away because this is not the boss you're used to. If your team can drop a 125 in 60 minutes, you can drop a 150 in 90 minutes. Boss 150 is only 1.4x the HP of boss 125.
If the above is true I'd say its actually fairer(is that even a word?) to do it(in one sense). You know at lvl 50 you aren't going to make it, instead of finding out at lvl.130. Though gree must like.it as the teams that can finish had to use much more in total.
but I may have that all wrong as I haven't bothered with RB in some.time

[Napgar]

What's getting missed is that the big change to RB health isn't so much that it's higher, but that the curve is completely different. It used to get exponentially more difficult as the levels increased, but now it's far more linear, almost perfectly linear, in fact, from level 60 or 70 on up to 150. A level 105 boss is more than 6 times what it was last time, while the 150 boss is only 1.05 times what it was last time.

So, yes, overall the difficulty is quite a bit higher - however, when you're struggling on that 125 and the past memories come up telling you, "if you struggle on a 125, a 150 will be impossible", tell those thoughts to go away because this is not the boss you're used to. If your team can drop a 125 in 60 minutes, you can drop a 150 in 90 minutes. Boss 150 is only 1.4x the HP of boss 125.


That's a great observation, Kefa (should seen that myself...) - there is indeed some logic in this change...

[Layon]

So, yes, overall the difficulty is quite a bit higher Understatement. We used to be able to make Prestige. Now we are struggling already at the low levels of Prestige. I have over 1 Billion attack and can barely make a dent in a level 70 boss with a FA.
Insane.

[CAPT MICKY D]

Insane it is I tells ya... ruined my favorite event they did

[Speed ump]

Pidgeot, I see you're still trying to have all teams being able to compete with the top teams in events. That was never the intention, even if it did work that way for a while, that's why the changes, to make more of a differential between the levels. If you're playing for free, or very close to it, don't expect to be able to finish the higher levels. Goes along with their stated intentions of having different levels to make it a challenge for all. Maybe it's a challenge for some teams to complete normal. That's the whole idea.

[Kefa]

If the above is true I'd say its actually fairer(is that even a word?) to do it(in one sense). You know at lvl 50 you aren't going to make it, instead of finding out at lvl.130. Though gree must like.it as the teams that can finish had to use much more in total.
but I may have that all wrong as I haven't bothered with RB in some.time

No need to wonder if it's true - Larry Jackson posted all the data from the past several RB events, and the current HP is verifiable by looking in game. A quick copy from Larry's post and paste into a spreadsheet, and voila...

http://i62.tinypic.com/1775a8.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/1775a8.jpg


The overall health is too high, and I still stand on my statement that the top 100 teams represent the top 4% of players in the game and ought to be able to finish RB Master with full team participation. However, frankly, it's supposed to be a team event, so I think it's a good thing if a level 60 boss requires more than one person's quick attack to defeat. I'm glad the slope is more linear now, but the angle should come down a bit.

[Layon]

I stand corrected. This is not insane. This is ridiculous.
Total health is 10 times higher in 2 months ?!?!?!
There is no use even starting these mission unless you are already top 10% player because only then you can do prestige.
Rewards for normal are to crappy to bother.
A word of advice to people considering to start with this game: don't bother unless you are willing to spend at least $100,- a month.
If you want to become a top player be prepared to spend more than $1000,- a month.

[Annihilator2]

I stand corrected. This is not insane. This is ridiculous.
Total health is 10 times higher in 2 months ?!?!?!
There is no use even starting these mission unless you are already top 10% player because only then you can do prestige.
Rewards for normal are to crappy to bother.
A word of advice to people considering to start with this game: don't bother unless you are willing to spend at least $100,- a month.
If you want to become a top player be prepared to spend more than $1000,- a month.

Agree. 10 times is too much.

[Ragin Asian]

Based on recent events, Gree is pushing hard for people to spend money

[Annihilator2]

Based on recent events, Gree is pushing hard for people to spend money

I think opposite: Gree is pushing for people to understand that spending money will not help in this game.

[WWW]

No need to wonder if it's true - Larry Jackson posted all the data from the past several RB events, and the current HP is verifiable by looking in game. A quick copy from Larry's post and paste into a spreadsheet, and voila...

http://i62.tinypic.com/1775a8.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/1775a8.jpg


The overall health is too high, and I still stand on my statement that the top 100 teams represent the top 4% of players in the game and ought to be able to finish RB Master with full team participation. However, frankly, it's supposed to be a team event, so I think it's a good thing if a level 60 boss requires more than one person's quick attack to defeat. I'm glad the slope is more linear now, but the angle should come down a bit.
Kefa, you are definitely right. The diagram gives good basis for explanation of the whole situation. Total player's effort is represented on the diagram by the area under the boss health curve. As we all know GREE staff isn't good in math ;-) so they didn't realize that. And area under the red curve is more than twice as big as area under the yellow one. They probably wanted to change effort curve to linear but missed the consequences of keeping end point on the old height. I suspect your diagram will make some stir in MW designers room :-D

[NexusImperium]

Outstanding analysis, WWW

[Pidgeot]

Pidgeot, I see you're still trying to have all teams being able to compete with the top teams in events. That was never the intention, even if it did work that way for a while, that's why the changes, to make more of a differential between the levels. If you're playing for free, or very close to it, don't expect to be able to finish the higher levels. Goes along with their stated intentions of having different levels to make it a challenge for all. Maybe it's a challenge for some teams to complete normal. That's the whole idea.

The last time I check, easy and normal were do the easy going and weaker player or am I wrong and the only people who should get boost are the top?

[Layon]

I suspect your diagram will make some stir in MW designers room :-DIt definitely should and they should at least apologise and correct this the next time. But don't hold your breath.
As I said before: we used to be able to just make prestige. Now there is no way we can make normal.

[plavine]

My faction barely finished the level 60 boss - 65 will take everyone ( impossible since some are sleeping now - at least this break means I can do KA trials

[sstuutss]

I suspect your diagram will make some stir in MW designers room :-D
I doubt gree will.that graph a seconds thought. What they will graph is how much money they made last RB and how much money they made this RB.(and I'm not saying thats a bad thing, thats just how it is).
Now if grres graph showed they made a lot less money things might change

[garen argon]

i doubt gree will.that graph a seconds thought. What they will graph is how much money they made last rb and how much money they made this rb.(and i'm not saying thats a bad thing, thats just how it is).
Now if grres graph showed they made a lot less money things might change

bingo !!!!