Armor Trading Debate

[Ly0n0]

As I was reading through the "What Kind Of New Content..." thread I noticed a lot of posts that were about trading armors. There were many that want some type of armor trading system, but there were also quite a bit who are against the idea. This thread is dedicated to that debate.
Would a trading system be helpful or detrimental to KnD? How? There is no "right" answer, but I know alot of you have interesting ones. Of course stick to the forum's conduct policy and remember counter arguments don't need to belittle other people.

[Mos20]

Nope, nope & nope! Would it be fair if people just starting or fairly new to the game were able to be virtually gifted Epics because they got lucky in a guild that had someone with excess epics? Epics should be earned not traded for!

[zelfgal]

Nope, nope & nope! Would it be fair if people just starting or fairly new to the game were able to be virtually gifted Epics because they got lucky in a guild that had someone with excess epics? Epics should be earned not traded for!

Epics can trade only with epics under some conditions, such as epic element or how old the epics are...i find it a good idea under conditions of course...
And epics i dont think that they re really earned, a big part based on luck(chests, fusions). only some players earn them through wars or raids...

[Ly0n0]

I would say you "earn" epics through fusion. The only 2 epics I have I got through fusion...and I had to fuse A LOT of armors (99% being 4* armors) and got a lot of weak, not-worth-it armors. I agree anyone can get epics from the chance chests, but if you're a supporter of the trade system do you see recieving an epic through a trade system more "earned" than getting one through fusion?

[Konny]

I think armor trading should not be posssible. K&D is a game where the best armors cost serious money to get and being able to trade them between A and B actually effects player C (A giving a T10 armour to non-gemmer B who now has a better armour than C who gemmed T25).

Writing that as a non-gemmer myself.

[Royil]

Make it only to people in guild :)

[Lord P]

No armor trading...... I can't stand it that people can sell accounts to other people who haven't "earned" the right to own good armor. Account buying circumvents that privilege and armor trading would do the same thing.

[Rhaegal]

Im opposed to armor trading but I think players should be allowed to "auction" away armors where the player puts the armor up and sets a minimum price they'll accept. Then people have x amount of time to bid. Then gree gets a cut of the gems used by the winning bidder and the remainder would go to the player.

I think this could work because it would allow players to get armors they want and not negatively impact gree's bottom line. After all, someone had to purchase the gems to win the armor and gree would get a cut as the "auction house" removing those gems from play.

Plus it eliminates the "favoritism" aspect of trading that so many players find objectionable since the buyer and seller would both be anonymous.

[Carla Fraser DeVries]

1st time on here. Learning as I go. How the heck do I get Gree to fix a glitch in my game? It has been over a month and it is ridiculous. They keep closing the ticket but never doing anything. Frustrated!

[Ant venom]

1st time on here. Learning as I go. How the heck do I get Gree to fix a glitch in my game? It has been over a month and it is ridiculous. They keep closing the ticket but never doing anything. Frustrated!

Just get used to their act of closing tickets as they obviously lack customer service skills and the people

[Adisty]

IMO, trading would negatively affect GREE's profit margins, however it was implemented. Even with the "Auction" style trading, yes GREE would get money from the gems purchased to make the bid, but it would reduce the amount of gems a player would spend to get the armor they are bidding for, rather than trying to get it in a chance chest or guild event.

[legalious]

1st time on here. Learning as I go. How the heck do I get Gree to fix a glitch in my game? It has been over a month and it is ridiculous. They keep closing the ticket but never doing anything. Frustrated!

For glitches that you notice but not necessarily associated with account details and is graphical or just a nuisance will probably be closed. Those type of tickets do not require further response as the development team is in the process of fixing the error. Once fixed, the update will be pushed into the next available in-game or play store update.

[Relic]

Hi,

Just to add to what legalious wrote, you should still receive a reply from CS before a ticket is closed.

Also, some graphical glitches can be due to a a wi-fi issue and in that case CS won't be able to assist you.

[Regretz]

Well back to topic... I think the auction house is an awesome idea. People with multiple epics, such as the constant t10 runners, I kno they have multiple epics of the same combo. While the weaker ones r outdated for them, theyre still stronger for other ppl who would gladly pay gems for them.
I hear the argument "but then weaker players would have epics they didnt earn", if the auction house is put into place they will "earn" them as theyre paying gems. Also, it takes 2 ppl to make a trade... the person putting up the armor for auction and the person buying it.

Tldr; The auction house is an awesome idea imo and would be a great success if implemented

[Anton-kun]

I'm going to share some of my opinions on this matter, so prepare yourselves for a wall of text. :p

Trading is a pretty nice idea. After all, it kind of connects the community, making it possible to actually interact with other players in other ways than only fighting. However, I can not see armor trading being implemented just like that for several reasons.

First of all, KnD is different from many other mobile app games. Let me use some other games I play as comparisons. Most online games like KnD have some kind of trading system, but they also have multiple currencies used for different things in-game. Basically, when you trade, you can trade for many different things. It would be pointless to trade an armor for another armor with the same stats (and otherwise, why would you trade it?) unless you just want to change elements. And that's a really small thing for a feature like trading to be implemented. So now, of course it's possible to ask for gold or gems too. But the economy in KnD doesn't really work like that. I'll come to this point later.

Another thing that is necessary for trading is the actual demand. Some games require you to possess multiple copies of an item (armor/card etc.) to evolve it which means that you have to trade to get them. And most of these games have more depth to them. KnD is set up with 3 knights in battle and each armor has a regular and plus version. This means that the game works in a different way. Basically, once you get an armor, all you need to do is level it. And you only need 3 armors in your actual team. (Although different elements are important too, but that's beside the point.) What I want to say is that this system doesn't lend itself well to a trading system.

So what is my suggestion? If we want a trading system, KnD needs a massive overhaul. Add some special items and ways to use them? I know that it's really, really vague, but I mean things like events and new features. This is just a random example, but let's say that there's a new feature that allows you to do x to earn special items that can be used to craft y. (Even more vague... but I hope you get what I mean) This special item can also be traded which means that you can trade armors for these special items. Basically, we can't just implement an armor-for-armor or armor-for-gems (Imo, that's just stupid. You gem to get a t10 armor to sell it for gems? Wat) system.

Now, this is purely my opinion, so please don't jump on me and yell if you disagree. ^^;

[tiffaneeb]

What about top level players? Say you were first place in an event and want to step down for a week. What is to stop the GM from suggesting you trade your epic+ to someone entering the guild for a top run in order for you to come back to the guild for a future top run? This could stack a guild with all epic+ armor all the time.

[P4R4NO1D]

+1 An auction house would be a great idea but maybe it shouldn't be limited to armors alone. Make so that you can sell necklaces and rings too.

[Viesczy]

Just another thing that's asking to be abused.

[Regretz]

To those saying y sell a t10 armor for gems if u gem to get it? Ur not being asked to. The players themselvs decide wat to sell and how much to sell it for. So its simple... dont put your t10 epics into the auction house (omg wat a concept!)

[Rhaegal]

I see the point of an auction house could negatively impact gree's bottom line because of reduced chance chest. But it could also greatly expand their revenue if they did it correctly.

1) as the auction house gree gets to keep 10-15% as a commission on the winning bid.
2) make it to where players have to "buy" bids. So even if you don't win, you might spend 20-30 gems on bids just chasing the item.
3) limit the number of items that can be auctioned at a time.
4) limit the types of armors that can be auctioned. Make it for war epics only, let's face it most people wouldn't bid on chest epics anyway because if they just wait a few months those can be fused.

This would do multiple things. Constricting the number of items up for auction creates artifical demand. Selling "bids" makes even those who don't win spend gems that all go to gree. Ever seen that e-bids commercial where someone won an iPad for $46.00? Yea they won for $46.00 but 400 other people spent $20 on losing "bids". So that ipad actually brought in thousands of $$$.

If done correctly it could bring a new item to the game AND make gree a ton of $$$.

[Ant venom]

I have played many games with aution and what not and they seem fine with it (i.e. EA Sports FIFA 15)

[ColombianThreatMachine]

Im opposed to armor trading but I think players should be allowed to "auction" away armors where the player puts the armor up and sets a minimum price they'll accept. Then people have x amount of time to bid. Then gree gets a cut of the gems used by the winning bidder and the remainder would go to the player.

I think this could work because it would allow players to get armors they want and not negatively impact gree's bottom line. After all, someone had to purchase the gems to win the armor and gree would get a cut as the "auction house" removing those gems from play.

Plus it eliminates the "favoritism" aspect of trading that so many players find objectionable since the buyer and seller would both be anonymous.



I like your idea much better :)

[Kangaroeland]

Im just afraid any form of armor trading will end up in people selling armors scamming others etcetera hence i would dislike this feature to be added in any form

[watermelon]

The whole argument about how people should be able to "earn" their epics seem a little moot. Already, as a newbie player if you dont want to put in the effort to build your account up, venues exist where you can purchase accounts from retired players.

If players want epics the easy way, there's always a way. But yeah, opening up formal trade venues for armors will only make things easier and therefore more widespread.

The only question I have is what's in it for gree? They're not going to waste their resources on new content that doesn't make them $. I'm thinking that if this ever happens, you will have to pay gree a few hundred gems per trade.

[Ant venom]

But the point of games is to have fun but not for the developers to make money so 7th Gree implements trading to make money than that beats the pups of games.

[Smiley80]

Armor trading will be abused of.

1) people selling armors individually.
2) creating storage accounts. Solve all you bag storage space by having 2 or more accounts. trade all your armour to yourself.
3)When leveling a new armor have all your 2 or more account's armorsmiths crafting armor and trade all the armor to the one guy to level stuff much quicker.
4) Leacher can trade all their armors and change accounts and Leach multiple times and more effectively
5)Top guilds will pool the best 3 armors possible for raids for all their members
6)for raids equip all the best armors fight then trade off for someone else to use.

Overall bad idea

IF they incorperate gems in trades it would avoid most issues. The top guilds will still pool all the best armors.

[roookey1]

I also think that things like 'Auction Houses' etc. would probably be complicated for Gree to implement, and there are all the whiners again concerned about poor Gree maybe not making enough money from it, already starting to openly think (for Gree! lol) on how to squeeze even more $$$ out of us. The idea of happy customers staying in the game and being much more valuable to a company on the long run than squeezing the existing ones like lemons until they leave the game pissed and angry, seems to be too hard to grasp for some of these individuals.

What I'd really wish for are means to donate armors in-guild. This should not be too complicated in fact, and would hardly have a negative impact on Gree's income as well. Let me explain why: players who have the funds OR (lol!) are willing to pay for their armor do it anyway. The others don't. So a player not having the money or not willing to pay, also won't buy in some 'auction house'. Players who are ready to buy chests or a war result (if Gree keeps up this incredible imbalance) will continue to do so. But I as someone who has good armor (often enough, 2 or 3 of the same type, yes, opening chests makes you feel that stupid about yourself!) would like to pass some of it to 'poorer' players in my guild, like students or ppl with less income.
Since I've started to play this game, many of them, after a short phase of 'trying their very best' (and becoming valuable to the guild doing that!) got frustrated and gave up playing because they felt inferior to the rest of the guild or felt that they didn't have the same chances the top half in the guild had. If I or another player could donate selected pieces of my armor to such motivated players within my guild, it would help to keep such guys going, it could be a motivation for in-guild competitions, and these people also WILL buy stuff from Gree sooner or later ...if Gree could manage to make them stay in the game long enough! Give them this extra feature that would at least to some extent balance out the huge gap between 'win buyers' and occasional/fun/hobby players who would only buy gems once or twice in a year. Let's not be delusional and forget: this group of players is probably the largest in the game, and over some amount of time, would certainly flush in an amount of money that compensates Gree for the effort of providing a more balanced game that feels 'fair'.

Oh and by the way, for the whiners: many of the players who enjoy to show-off how much money they are ready to pump into the game may even buy more amor with this in-guild feature, and be it just to be able to 'graciously' donate them to their 'poor' guildmates aka 'family members', and feel even more important because of that - so no worries about Gree getting bankrupt over it. :rolleyes:

[UP Tide]

I think the CONS outweigh the PROS in this debate.

DON'T DO IT GREE!

[Cuffy Meigs]

OK so who really cares how I got my armor, its mine. If I want to give it away or sell it so be it.
As far as top guilds stacking armors? What do you think they do now? Look at the top players they all use war epics to win war epics. No impact there.
Personally I have about 60 epics, I've started using them like fusion boosts to enhance armors. 4 centurion aegis go a long way improving my finmail+
You can only use 2 monos anyway. Lots of spill over.
Having a trading system where you might just give em away does seem like much but I would like a straight out gem buy by gree for my epics. They can steam clean them and put up there own prices on it, be it for cash or gems. They already charge you $100 for an epic the make it a prize in the arena like two weeks later.
Having a list in game where I can just buy an epic, prices based on how relevent that epic armor is, would be a nice compromise. As long as I could get some gems for an arena run or war run I'd be happy with that.

[mrsalami37]

As long ad it could be implemented without glitches etc I think it could be good. It really sucks fusing an epic and seeing it as only a fusion boost.

[Viesczy]

Armor trading will be abused of.

1) people selling armors individually.
2) creating storage accounts. Solve all you bag storage space by having 2 or more accounts. trade all your armour to yourself.
3)When leveling a new armor have all your 2 or more account's armorsmiths crafting armor and trade all the armor to the one guy to level stuff much quicker.
4) Leacher can trade all their armors and change accounts and Leach multiple times and more effectively
5)Top guilds will pool the best 3 armors possible for raids for all their members
6)for raids equip all the best armors fight then trade off for someone else to use.

Overall bad idea

IF they incorperate gems in trades it would avoid most issues. The top guilds will still pool all the best armors.
This right here. Terrific post.

[Ly0n0]

So the basis for wanting a trade/auction system is for low lvl, weaker players a "fast track" to being stronger and stronger players who have long passed the "endgame" to shuck some extra armors in exchange for gems. The opposing side of this debate mainly sees this commercial activity as an easy target for scamming. I don't think anyone really gives a crap about how it affects Gree, but I don't think Gree gives a crap knowing they have control over what is and isn't in the game. One question that comes to mind though is how a system that allows such ease of access to (since we're mainly talking about them) epic armors could flood the game with them and how that would affect KnD. For example, with epics being more easily obtainable, should they only be usable after a the player hits a certain level (especially in the case of trading/donating) or not (especially if bought)? What are other ways this would affect KnD besides quick advancement/gem profit(For) and scamming(Against)?

[Kangaroeland]

I just really hope they never do this as the risks are huge

also:

Armor trading will be abused of.

1) people selling armors individually.
2) creating storage accounts. Solve all you bag storage space by having 2 or more accounts. trade all your armour to yourself.
3)When leveling a new armor have all your 2 or more account's armorsmiths crafting armor and trade all the armor to the one guy to level stuff much quicker.
4) Leacher can trade all their armors and change accounts and Leach multiple times and more effectively
5)Top guilds will pool the best 3 armors possible for raids for all their members
6)for raids equip all the best armors fight then trade off for someone else to use.

Overall bad idea

IF they incorperate gems in trades it would avoid most issues. The top guilds will still pool all the best armors.

Pretty much this, although any form of trading in games always leads to horror.

[Cuffy Meigs]

The real sad part of this whole thing is basicly were mostly talking about fusable epics being traded. As they make up the overwhelming volume of epics in the game.
Right now there are more war epics than fusable epic types. Why aren't we talking about making outdated war epics available for fusion first before an auction house or armor trading ability?
Lets face it gree is increasing the power of these war epics dramaticly. Its not just a few hundred higher than the best fusable epic any longer.
In order for the gross population to keep up they need to make the lower tier epics available somehow. Armor trading or an auction house or even removing the non plus versions of out dated epics is needed. This divide is widening and will result in a massive loss of player base.
How ever it gets done in needs attention. Players are scrambling to close this divide by the popular discussion of armor trading etc. But its really more about addressing what's the larger problem.

[SylusBlack]

It won't ever be implemented as it's a feature that can be abused and isn't a strong enough feature for GREE to add. It'd have to benefit them and I just don't see how it would.

It would probably create an outside armor selling source (people trading armor for real money) and GREE wouldn't allow something like that to happen. All I have to say is putting in a trading house, auction house or storage doesn't make a game better.

Best example? DIABLO III.

[roookey1]

It'd have to benefit them and I just don't see how it would.

it's kinda amusing to note the masochistic personality some of the people playing K&D seem to have.

A game, first and before all, is there to entertain and 'feel right' for its PLAYERS, who would then maybe turn into future CUSTOMERS (in f2p games), but not for the company that develops it. Just like every other product that's supposed to get sold on this planet. Hmm... what planet are you living on?

The game is supposed to be 'free to play', but not even the free part of it is balanced (think of wars), and where you turn into a paying customer, you feel cheated out of your money (bad chest results etc.). Many players already complain about feeling milked too much.
As already said, I also don't think that something like an 'auction house' would work out well, but in-guild armor donations would at least give 'some' (if only emotional) return value for the players who have spent lots of cash on this game, but as a result, have an armory filled with the 3rd or 4th 'Demortuis' epics and similar (for them, mostly crap) stuff they got out of chests - to motivated, but weaker players in their guilds who wouldn't spend money right now anyway. It's a win-win for both, players/buyers, and even Gree too, if they'd just get that long-term happy customers are good for them as well. But actually, I think even Gree (as they showed it by the way they implemented heroic mode and raid events) thinks smarter and more long-term than certain players here who don't miss any chance of reiterating their resigned 'just forget about your idea to make this game better, because Gree won't make $$$ with that'. Sorry having to say that, but I can just shake my head in disbelief about the hopelessness and acceptance of stagnation your post expresses.

[Rhaegal]

They care about the customer experience, to a point.

Raids have gotten to where t10 costs nearly as many gems as going t10 during war and raid is only 2 days instead of 3 for guild war. T25 on raids has lagged slightly behind t25 during war but again, you're comparing 2 days to 3. On a per day basis raids probably bring in more money than guild war at this point.

Heroic mode. The first heroic mode was 28 days and the drop rate was decent. Each heroic thereafter has gotten steadily shorter with IMO, a steadily worsening drop rate. if this continues, the only way to get the next heroic + will be to spend gems.

So neither of your two examples of how gree cares about happy long term customers stands up to scrutiny, you need to find better examples.

in guild trading especially for epics, won't happen, it would disrupt the chests too much which are a major profit center for the game. Plus, as they have proven recently with the guaranteed chest epic+, war rewards, direct sales, etc, no armor is too old or too outdated for gree to try to make a dollar selling. For this same reason, an auction house is probably doomed as well even though it would add some gems and therefore money to gree's pockets, it has the potential to be too disruptive on gree's plans for it to be implemented.

[SylusBlack]

it's kinda amusing to note the masochistic personality some of the people playing K&D seem to have.


Sorry, I'm just looking at this from a business standpoint not a game standpoint. At the top end of it, KnD is a business it's not a game, GREE makes top dollar on it and won't add something that is player requested if it's completely out of their plans/means.

They would more likely add something to GREATLY benefit them, than add something to greatly benefit players. That being said they are a GAME company and I'd like to see them make their players happy but they're overall goal is to make money, not enjoyment.

[ColombianThreatMachine]

This right here. Terrific post.

Bam tell it like it is!

Better idea was the Auction house, Gree will be able to set a minimum price on epics and take a cut of the gems too and/or add a 10% gem cost to the armor. This would prevent players from most of the above because it would get too expensive for them to do this on a constant basis.

[ColombianThreatMachine]

Sorry, I'm just looking at this from a business standpoint not a game standpoint. At the top end of it, KnD is a business it's not a game, GREE makes top dollar on it and won't add something that is player requested if it's completely out of their plans/means.

They would more likely add something to GREATLY benefit them, than add something to greatly benefit players. That being said they are a GAME company and I'd like to see them make their players happy but they're overall goal is to make money, not enjoyment.



Gree makes money through a players enjoyment...... Not trying to be rude or anything. But the only reason why Gree would appear like they make money on our sadness is because they are really busy and slammed with stuff. If they didn't care about our enjoyment, they wouldn't have a suggestion thread. That thread is there to improve the game and also increase profits while doing it... all through enjoyment.