War scoring system

[Rhaegal]

Can we please fix the war scoring system. I'm not against stripping, or those that employ it as a tactic. That I and my guild don't is our own choice.

However, which the following should yield more points.

1) the opposing gm has 1 knight wearing a maelstrom. I kill him using 1 good armor and two fusion boost armors on my support knights.

2) the opposing gm is using 3 knights all wearing new war epics. I kill him using opposing epic armors.

Which should yield more war points? 1 or 2?

Most people would say option 2. However that is NOT the case.

Option 1 yields 750-800 points
Option 2 yields 570-650 points

Again, I'm not against stripping but at least put us on an equal footing for a points basis.

Thanks

[Head-Hunter Arc]

GREE should go ahead and fix this by making player level/rank the only factors that effect points earned.

[Sol Invictus]

GREE should do a lot of things.

You might actually see this implemented in 4-10 months.

[MisterT]

Family guilds may always see stripping as cheating while alliance guilds don't see it as cheating. This will always stay the same. But i bet a family guild will take the points when they get a guild that forgot to put hard armor on again.

[roookey1]

Plus, reward less points for bought additional fights (see my other thread: "gems should be considered super weapons") AND/OR give less reward points if an opponent is beaten up consecutively.

The game already contains no challenge at all other than hitting the 'special' button at the right time, 'winning' something like this currently only means most gems spent to be able to hit on an identified target as many times as possible. Come up with some minimum 'challenge' a guild war (!) should invoke, like to at least force players to deal with different opponents now and then ... or if they are just point vampires, at least reward them less and less with every hit. Otherwise it's just ridiculous. As mentioned, for any worse ranking than #25, it doesn't take long to figure out that real effort doesn't pay off anyway, as a) a single player in the other guild can completely neutralize the efforts of a 30-40 player's guild and b) the rewards feel more like consolation prizes at these ribbons. And: no worries about the income of Gree, yaysayers - players with ego issues will still buy gems like crazy to make it up to #200 instead of #300, even if they get points deducted the way described above. I'd bet they would even spend more! But the upside would be that players who can't or don't want to engage in gemming contests will feel that their effort at least makes some difference, and won't quit engaging in wars or maybe even stop playing K&D because the 'super power' of money spent in wars is so obvious and can't be overcome by any means.

[Scabs]

Do you think Gree makes money off of the non gemming players? You're failing to realize the point of the game and company. You're *****ing about the game working as it was designed and intended. If you don't like it, then this game is not for you. Gree will always cater to the players who put $ into the game over those who are f2p. It's just the reality of business.

[MisterT]

Plus, reward less points for bought additional fights (see my other thread: "gems should be considered super weapons") AND/OR give less reward points if an opponent is beaten up consecutively.

The game already contains no challenge at all other than hitting the 'special' button at the right time, 'winning' something like this currently only means most gems spent to be able to hit on an identified target as many times as possible. Come up with some minimum 'challenge' a guild war (!) should invoke, like to at least force players to deal with different opponents now and then ... or if they are just point vampires, at least reward them less and less with every hit. Otherwise it's just ridiculous. As mentioned, for any worse ranking than #25, it doesn't take long to figure out that real effort doesn't pay off anyway, as a) a single player in the other guild can completely neutralize the efforts of a 30-40 player's guild and b) the rewards feel more like consolation prizes at these ribbons. And: no worries about the income of Gree, yaysayers - players with ego issues will still buy gems like crazy to make it up to #200 instead of #300, even if they get points deducted the way described above. I'd bet they would even spend more! But the upside would be that players who can't or don't want to engage in gemming contests will feel that their effort at least makes some difference, and won't quit engaging in wars or maybe even stop playing K&D because the 'super power' of money spent in wars is so obvious and can't be overcome by any means.


You always can quite instead of complaining about the persons who spend gems.

[roookey1]

There are in fact no 'non-gemming' players. Even players who don't buy gems get them as freebies. Did you fanboys ever consider why, if their interest is only in players 'who spend money', Gree gives them away?

If you have the slightest understanding of marketing, you would get it. Why do supermarkets discount? Why do companies give away freebies? Why do companies advertise? Because they know they will attract customers by it, and they always want more customers. Some player may never have planned to 'buy gems' and only play with the free ones, but one day he will spend money for them - when he can. Because he is already used to it. Even obsessive non-spenders have friends and family members of which a few they may attract to the game (and spend $$$), they may build guilds of which some may turn into big spenders, they will ask for Google Play cards for Christmas to be able to buy gems ... you (may) get the picture.

I am tired of reading the mantra 'Gree wants to make money, so just pay or go.' I may already have spent more than you - but unlike you, I want something in return (like good armor when opening chests, no outdated crap; or not be punished when I fuse the epics that have cost me a fortune), be treated fair, and an evolution of the game instead of illogical and questionable rules (like war rankings and other aspects I don't want to repeat now) that I have led countless players to quit or not participate in wars anymore. Another law of marketing: it is always cheaper for a company to entice existing customers to stay and feel comfy than to attract new customers.

[MisterT]

There are in fact no 'non-gemming' players. Even players who don't buy gems get them as freebies. Did you fanboys ever consider why, if their interest is only in players 'who spend money', Gree gives them away?

If you have the slightest understanding of marketing, you would get it. Why do supermarkets discount? Why do companies give away freebies? Why do companies advertise? Because they know they will attract customers by it, and they always want more customers. Some player may never have planned to 'buy gems' and only play with the free ones, but one day he will spend money for them - when he can. Because he is already used to it. Even obsessive non-spenders have friends and family members of which a few they may attract to the game (and spend $$$), they may build guilds of which some may turn into big spenders, they will ask for Google Play cards for Christmas to be able to buy gems ... you (may) get the picture.

I am tired of reading the mantra 'Gree wants to make money, so just pay or go.' I may already have spent more than you - but unlike you, I want something in return (like good armor when opening chests, no outdated crap; or not be punished when I fuse the epics that have cost me a fortune), be treated fair, and an evolution of the game instead of illogical and questionable rules (like war rankings and other aspects I don't want to repeat now) that I have led countless players to quit or not participate in wars anymore. Another law of marketing: it is always cheaper for a company to entice existing customers to stay and feel comfy than to attract new customers.

I got 3 peacocks from chests before they became fusable, when i found out it became fusable i didn't like it but can't change it. So just go with the flow. If you don't like it, there is always the option to quite.

[Rhaegal]

Ok guys this thread is not about gemming/non gemming. This thread assumes the player gems. It's a thread on the scoring system.

[busteroaf]

Ok guys this thread is not about gemming/non gemming. This thread assumes the player gems. It's a thread on the scoring system.

And here I am wondering why Mister T wants me to "quite".

[legalious]

And here I am wondering why Mister T wants me to "quite".

Busteroaf = Roookey1
Good to know, since Mister T was not directing his comment towards you.

My guild was even asked by the opponents fighters named "Strip for us *GuildName*."

[busteroaf]

Busteroaf = Roookey1
Good to know.

My guild was even asked by the opponents fighters named "Strip for us *GuildName*."

Ha. You wish.

And since you're a mod, I'll be polite. But you're dumb. You'd think being a mod you'd have access to see that (I hope, otherwise I have a stalker) myself and Rook are from different places... check IPs and such.

Also, simply read his last post. He thinks things will change and wants "good" things in return. I'm smart enough to know that won't change anytime soon.

But thanks for the laugh Legalious.

[legalious]

Ha. You wish.

And since you're a mod, I'll be polite. But you're dumb. You'd think being a mod you'd have access to see that (I hope, otherwise I have a stalker) myself and Rook are from different places... check IPs and such.

Also, simply read his last post. He thinks things will change and wants "good" things in return. I'm smart enough to know that won't chance anytime soon.

But thanks for the laugh Legalious.

You do know that naming and shaming of other people and their ideas is not allowed. That goes for everyone on the forum.

[busteroaf]

You do know that naming and shaming of other people and their ideas is not allowed. That goes for everyone on the forum.

So, does that also mean YOU since you said I was someone I am not? Granted, you didn't shame me, but comparing me to someone I clearly am not is somewhat offensive. And to say I'm someone I am not is quite a bold statement. Many on this forum could take it as a truth, and it is not. And as a Mod, you should hold the forums to a higher standard. Yourself included.

[Clementine]

A friendly reminder to please keep this thread on topic and follow the Code of Conduct. I do not want to have lock/close this thread.

Thank you.

[busteroaf]

Sorry, I will apologize for my trolling of the topic with my original "quite" comment, and calling Legalious "dumb". But I would also like an apology from Legalious for his inappropriate slander.

Now in keeping to "on topic"... the war scoring, simply in the randomness and fact there is a "range" even on hitting the same target, with no penalty... shows that the war scoring itself is in serious need of overhaul. But it has been like this from Day 1, and we've asked for it since then, and nothing. So, why expect it to change now?

[Rhaegal]

No, sorry I guess I need to clarify. The range is for points off different targets. The way the scoring system works now is that you get identical points for each win on the same target assuming no one changes their armors.

[busteroaf]

They finally changed it so it wasn't random each time? No ****.

Still a jacked system.

[MisterT]

No, sorry I guess I need to clarify. The range is for points off different targets. The way the scoring system works now is that you get identical points for each win on the same target assuming no one changes their armors.

If i beat someone with maxed all seeing eye, firestorm and peacock then points should be the same for everyone with same rank and same line up.

[watermelon]

while we are on this topic, why is stripping still a "thing" in guild wars. GREE should tweak their score generating formula to severely punish knights trying to score off stripped armors.

Stop dumbing down the game. What's the point of winning new war epics if you could have just used a first evolution epic to farm GMs anyway.

[MossDog]

while we are on this topic, why is stripping still a "thing" in guild wars. GREE should tweak their score generating formula to severely punish knights trying to score off stripped armors.

Stop dumbing down the game. What's the point of winning new war epics if you could have just used a first evolution epic to farm GMs anyway.

The point is, Gree makes more money on strips as gems can be used faster. I do not think this is something that will ever be stopped.
The current scoring system, even when not stripping, penalizes for all these new epics (especially a +) being used. More points if EB+ are used. They should not penalize for using strong armors to win.
Either way, it seems new armor is only good for all the other parts of the game (raid, EB, arena)

[Scabs]

while we are on this topic, why is stripping still a "thing" in guild wars. GREE should tweak their score generating formula to severely punish knights trying to score off stripped armors.

Stop dumbing down the game. What's the point of winning new war epics if you could have just used a first evolution epic to farm GMs anyway.


The top guilds are going to be there with or without stripping. Stripping is used to maximize the point return on gems spent. The other thing is that there's really no easy solution to stripping. If you don't give many points for someone who is stripped, then that will be used as a defensive strategy as well.

I used to be opposed to stripping when I was part of an independent guild. After being in an alliance, it makes sense why the top guilds utilize this technique. If you're going to spend 1000+ gems in a war, you want to make sure you get as many wins as possible and separate your guild from the 11+ guilds. You'll spend less gems that way. The other thing is that strip wars only happen a few times per war event. It's tough to get a strip matchup, so your epics matter in those other 80% of battles. Top guilds are on a whole other level of communication that is just lacking from the lower ranked guilds.

[Aneria Heals]

I'd say we get strip matches about 50% of the time. Lets face it here, we are gamers, gamers will always find the way to get max points. Even if gree adjusts it, someone will figure out a way and that info will get passed down to the rest of the alliance/family/whatever. I was amazed at how organized top guilds are when i first joined our alliance. But it makes sense, gamers are competitive.

[greenwing]

I agree with TS, the point-system should be reworked. Stripping should result in less points. That way people can either strip (usually a quicker and more secure kill) or keep wearing good armours (less quick and might be a loss). The better the armors are the more points you should get. The current system where you get more points if you kill somebody with bad armors is pretty weird :)

[B Legit]

There are in fact no 'non-gemming' players. Even players who don't buy gems get them as freebies. Did you fanboys ever consider why, if their interest is only in players 'who spend money', Gree gives them away?

If you have the slightest understanding of marketing, you would get it. Why do supermarkets discount? Why do companies give away freebies? Why do companies advertise? Because they know they will attract customers by it, and they always want more customers. Some player may never have planned to 'buy gems' and only play with the free ones, but one day he will spend money for them - when he can. Because he is already used to it. Even obsessive non-spenders have friends and family members of which a few they may attract to the game (and spend $$$), they may build guilds of which some may turn into big spenders, they will ask for Google Play cards for Christmas to be able to buy gems ... you (may) get the picture.

I am tired of reading the mantra 'Gree wants to make money, so just pay or go.' I may already have spent more than you - but unlike you, I want something in return (like good armor when opening chests, no outdated crap; or not be punished when I fuse the epics that have cost me a fortune), be treated fair, and an evolution of the game instead of illogical and questionable rules (like war rankings and other aspects I don't want to repeat now) that I have led countless players to quit or not participate in wars anymore. Another law of marketing: it is always cheaper for a company to entice existing customers to stay and feel comfy than to attract new customers.

There is obviously very little understanding of marketing going on... Also quite contradictory

You say you want to be treated fair, then ask for bonus goodies since you spend gems. Gems are not "superweapons,' (really? that's even more ridiculous than saying that players with good armors owe Gree LMAO), they are a tool. I get you're upset, about what is hard to tell since each post goes off on some strange tangent. But if it's the fact that you don't get great armor every time you open chests, then perhaps you should look into RNG's and how they work? If anything the game is fair, everyone gets the same chest odds, fusion odds, etc...if you're unhappy with it, well then that's fine, but it's fair.
Again what you said makes sense, but you claim that nobody understands marketing, I think you should take another look and see Gree is actually doing a fantastic job...from their point of view, which is really all that matters.

Oh and regarding the point system, yeah it's terrible, but it creates the most profitable outcome for Gree.

[Porkch0p]

It's really a darned if you do, and darned if you don't situation. If they change it to give less points for stripped opponents, then a guild could rank all their heavy hitters as commanders, with weaker members making up hc and above. Have all hc's and above strip to ruin the points of an opposing guild, while the strong commanders get extra points off the rank difference.

[Rookeye]

I think GREE is brilliant at marketing, and so long as they continue to turn a profit on KnD I am HAPPY...because it means they won't pull the plug on my favorite game.

I may quibble on how many legendaries I must fuse before I get a "decent" epic, I may repudiate the chances of epic chests, I may dislike the apparent advantage of strips (highest point outcome possible?), but I love KnD. I want it to go on.

I haven't stripped yet. I don't belong to an alliance yet. That may change. It's anyone's game, even though those who shell out a fortune seem to come out ahead. So?? They play at their tier, I play at mine. There are winners at a number of levels in this game...it's one of the reasons I still play it. :)

[Drizzt79]

It took me a while to read through all the "off-topic" comments about gem/$$$ spenders. I fail to see the connection. Anyway, I think the way the game determines points needs to be addressed too. I think the score calculation should exists of 4 parts:

1. player level difference.
2. Guild rank difference.
3. player att+def difference. (add all att+def, incl. rings and amulets)
4. DC for 25% +/- luck

[Rhaegal]

I hate to say it but I think just use base points.

Kill on commander 200 pts
HC 250 pts
GC/GS 275 pts
GM 300 pts
That way stripped or not the points are at the very least the same. People could still strip for quick/easy kills if they wanted but they wouldn't get 60% more points for doing it.