Looks like Stats have no relevance in battles anymore

[SUPpose So]

Losing to ppl 40 bil below me in stats, as they have completed masters ILTQ already, and their equipment is stronger than mine...... Only single figure defence vs attack equip, but it looks like this is all thats being counted.

Lol this game has totally lost the plot... 3 years of playing and building flushed down the toilet.... Lol

This WD is going to be a real laugh. Not !

[Asto]

I thought I was bad losing to people 7 bil lower than me lol. Gree have finally completely ruined pvp and ultimately that has ruined the game and coincidentally it's just in time for a 7 DAY WD EVENT!! Well played again gree, you really do know how to kick your player's in the teeth, bend them over and teach them a lesson from behind. 3 years of practice and it has finally paid off I guess, congratulations.

To add to that, stats had become 90% irrelevant as it is but now to make them 99.9% irrelevant really is the biggest cock-slap-in-the-face ever. Everything we have worked for is now useless and worthless. Might as well restart the game

[Evil Mastermind]

You are correct. GREE's way of making everyone essentially start a new game. For those long timers to remain at top of the mountain, they will have to continue to build their account all over again....more MONEY for GREE.

Historical army stats are on 50% power but you now also have to win on soldier attack and soldier power. So you must get at least 2/3. Therefore, your army you built all this time only 1/3 of the equation now and at 50% power. Silly.

[Cannot Connect To Server]

hi 40bn below you? dang how high are your stats i wonder.

and you are right that wld suck all that hard work for nothing just cos these new bits we hv to upgrade with.

if its now based on that whats the point in beating ltqs for high units?

heres a few questions too for gree or anyone...

if v5.x is having massive pvp issues and this new equipment is also messing things up...

what do u think will happen if a v4.x pvp a v5.x?

or for those not on v5.x at all... will the WD and pvp run regular for them until they battle a v5.x?

who will have the advantages old vs old. old vs new?

[rainman875]

PvP seems to be so random for win or loss, can you post examples of how the new system works with regards to the weighted system.

[Tony81]

Goodbye campers. You won't be missed. (By the way, all equipment can be easily had for free with a little prestaging and tapping)

[SUPpose So]

Goodbye campers. You won't be missed. (By the way, all equipment can be easily had for free with a little prestaging and tapping)

And the "Aviator 1 attack 1 defence Forums most stupid post trophy" goes to..... *drum Roll....
Tony"i bend over to talk"81

[Stumps]

Any idea if the att/def skill points are factored into it?

[Tony81]

And the "Aviator 1 attack 1 defence Forums most stupid post trophy" goes to..... *drum Roll....
Tony"i bend over to talk"81

I see math isn't your strong point. Let me know when you can grab a calculator and are willing to understand simple addition and percentages.

PS, I don't fly planes or actively defend anything. (I believe you mean defenSe)

[Danger Mouse]

Given that attacks are now a raffle due to player and army equipment stats that you can't see, and stats are therefore largely irrelevant in assessing whether to go ahead, it's going to take a lot more than attack/defence bonus units to entice me to spend gold on events now. Why would you? Gree don't seem to realise what they have done to the game in the name of "progress".

[Tony81]

I honestly don't get all the fuss. If you're active and get the equipment, you'll be fine. It's a percentage of the win/loss decision. This early on, it will be swayed heavily to seem unfair to "campers" if you're not gathering equipment. That's on you, not Gree.

Equipment is not handed out in the forums. Go collect it and quit'cher belly-achin'

[Danger Mouse]

Getting the equipment is not the issue. Having some sort of idea what your opponents equipment strength is, is. At the moment any attack is completely in the dark, whereas the game situation from day one has always been that you could at least make an educated decision on whether to attack or not based on relative stats. Now?
-
So my point was, given that stats have been relegated as no longer the paramount factor in PvP, why would I bust my wallet acquiring them as hard as ever? If Gree want me to spend, they need more enticement than that now. Attack/defence boosts no longer seem quite so attractive.
-
Your point was? Did you have one?

[Tony81]

Getting the equipment is not the issue. Having some sort of idea what your opponents equipment strength is, is. At the moment any attack is completely in the dark, whereas the game situation from day one has always been that you could at least make an educated decision on whether to attack or not based on relative stats. Now?
-
So my point was, given that stats have been relegated as no longer the paramount factor in PvP, why would I bust my wallet acquiring them as hard as ever? If Gree want me to spend, they need more enticement than that now. Attack/defence boosts no longer seem quite so attractive.
-
Your point was? Did you have one?

I thought my point was pretty clear... Get the equipment and your opponents' equipment won't matter. Now if you're saying that all you've done is hit what docbot told you to hit, that's on you. I don't think you're supposed to know how strong a person is until you hit them. Now if they have more equipment than you, they have a chance of defending your attack. Kudos to them. If you have 20b attack to their 5b defense and your equipment is the same or at least similar, you'll still win.

It's simple. Keep playing and you'll keep winning. Stop playing and bit... whine about changes, and us active guys will mop the floor with your... lack of equipment.

I know it's not like you to post things other than "poor me" posts but this can't be that difficult to understand.

[Danger Mouse]

I thought my point was pretty clear... Get the equipment and your opponents' equipment won't matter. Now if you're saying that all you've done is hit what docbot told you to hit, that's on you. I don't think you're supposed to know how strong a person is until you hit them. Now if they have more equipment than you, they have a chance of defending your attack. Kudos to them. If you have 20b attack to their 5b defense and your equipment is the same or at least similar, you'll still win.

It's simple. Keep playing and you'll keep winning. Stop playing and bit... whine about changes, and us active guys will mop the floor with your... lack of equipment.

I know it's not like you to post things other than "poor me" posts but this can't be that difficult to understand.

equipment is now king, worth as much if not more than units. I say more because I can check an opponents unit strength through the game profile page, whereas we now have no FN clue what equipment they are packing. So the game dynamic of attack and defence has become a mystery black box that completely devalues unit strength.

Given all that, why would I pursue even more deflated unit bonuses with gold when there are already plenty of examples on the forums that 2 points of unknown, unpredictable equipment strength outweighs 20Bn points of unit strength? Where is the incentive to keep chasing that goal now? I'll now be reserving gold for those items that allow me to collect equipment more rapidly (energy regen etc).

I would have thought that was a simple concept to follow.

[Bob Belcher]

I'm currently looking for new team oriented game. "Not run by Gree"
If you find one please let us know here! Lots of players looking to flee the game! ROME IS BURNING!
Thanks in advance....

P.S. It's Gree mathematics & we all know how that works!

[Tony81]

equipment is now king, worth as much if not more than units. I say more because I can check an opponents unit strength through the game profile page, whereas we now have no FN clue what equipment they are packing. So the game dynamic of attack and defence has become a mystery black box that completely devalues unit strength.

Given all that, why would I pursue even more deflated unit bonuses with gold when there are already plenty of examples on the forums that 2 points of unknown, unpredictable equipment strength outweighs 20Bn points of unit strength? Where is the incentive to keep chasing that goal now? I'll now be reserving gold for those items that allow me to collect equipment more rapidly (energy regen etc).

I would have thought that was a simple concept to follow.

I'm active. What 'player B' has done or will do has no hearing on how I play the game. I don't need to worry about what equipment someone will have because I more than likely have the same or very close to it. And even if I didnt, I welcome back defensive wins with wide open arms and a smile. HELLO STRATEGY!

The same people griping about the equipment also moan about skill points not working. We have NEVER known what someone's skill points were before an attack. So here ya go... a working "skill point" system you can change in the fly. Again... STRATEGY!

I can't convince you to play a way you are uncomfortable or unfamiliar with so I'll just end with what I've been saying all along... If you don't want to play the game, quit. This IS the game now and no matter what the forum-moaners say, this will be good for the game.

/rant over

[Tony81]

Also, comparing a 3 attack to an 8 defense will affect an outcome a lot more than having a 79 attack face a 85 defense. This is about percentages. Screaming "unfair" is quite... unfair to the new system.

[Danger Mouse]

I'm active. What 'player B' has done or will do has no hearing on how I play the game. I don't need to worry about what equipment someone will have because I more than likely have the same or very close to it. And even if I didnt, I welcome back defensive wins with wide open arms and a smile. HELLO STRATEGY!

The same people griping about the equipment also moan about skill points not working. We have NEVER known what someone's skill points were before an attack. So here ya go... a working "skill point" system you can change in the fly. Again... STRATEGY!

I can't convince you to play a way you are uncomfortable or unfamiliar with so I'll just end with what I've been saying all along... If you don't want to play the game, quit. This IS the game now and no matter what the forum-moaners say, this will be good for the game.

/rant over

Dude. Strangely enough we are closer to agreement than anything else. All I'm saying is that my STRATEGY will be, in a world of finite resources available to spend on a game, to pursue equipment strength over yet more devalued bonus units. Now that Gree has cut the value of each unit in half in terms of gameplay outcomes, they need to ramp up the prizes to get me to rethink that strategy.
-
See, we agree. Don't know what got your panties in a twist?

[Tony81]

Nothing really. I just like to argue things that don't make sense to me. Haha.

If you are only saying that you will have to decide where gold is being spent, that's understandable. Saying stats are irrelevant is not true though. And saying equipment is the new king is just as untrue. If everyone believes this and quits, who will I get to beat up on?

5.0 already works much better than 4.anything. And I don't see any reason to believe the equipment feature isn't working as intended. People are losing to me that have half the equipment I do. If those numbers were 5,000 to 2,500, everyone would understand. Attacks are now A/D+B+C vs. A/D+B+C not just my "A" vs. your "D".

Just give it time and I bet everyone will have fun with a new aspect of the game.

[Danger Mouse]

Nothing really. I just like to argue things that don't make sense to me. Haha.

If you are only saying that you will have to decide where gold is being spent, that's understandable. Saying stats are irrelevant is not true though. And saying equipment is the new king is just as untrue. If everyone believes this and quits, who will I get to beat up on?

5.0 already works much better than 4.anything. And I don't see any reason to believe the equipment feature isn't working as intended. People are losing to me that have half the equipment I do. If those numbers were 5,000 to 2,500, everyone would understand. Attacks are now A/D+B+C vs. A/D+B+C not just my "A" vs. your "D".

Just give it time and I bet everyone will have fun with a new aspect of the game.

I only say that equipment will be king as it has become a real ace up the sleeve. While unit stats are relatively transparent, and skill points irrelevant, the equipment points will be a complete unknown where even the slightest advantage in hidden equipment points do have the potential to completely ruin someone's day that would otherwise have, and previously did have, a massive and unbeatable advantage in A over D, as you say. B + C with small but telling differences will trump massive A vs D differences regular enough that it makes it a far more worthwhile strategy to keep the equipment gap on your side than it is to try and close massive unit stats gaps. Playing the odds in a game where there are already massive unit stats gaps, but we all start fresh on equipment.
-
So, where I will spend my finite resources of gold will go towards that goal, unless Gree offer units and bonuses again to the less-than-high-flyers ibn the middle ranks that help to close that massive unit stats gap and make that strategy worth pursuing. The present units they do offer don't make enough of an incremental change to be worth spending hard currency to pursue, that gap will never be closed enough to matter at that rate when maintaining the equipment inventory will have such a greater impact on outcomes.
-
Gree have tried something new, but completely and massively devalued unit stats as a result of the new equation and starting fresh on equipment. They have brought the big stats old timers down to everyone else's level and made them within reach again, or at least less omnipotent, and I bet they aren't happy about that.

[Tony81]

Dude, Go get the equipment... for free. Gree isn't devaluing stats, it's adding another aspect to fighting.

If the old timers decide to sit on their hands griping about equipment instead of going and getting it, they have no one to blame but themselves. I don't care if you have a trunk full of AK47's... If you forget to bring ammo, my 9mm and 7 bullets will win. Go get the ammo and win battles. Your big gun will still win.

You say you understand but then you go right back to complaining. But I'm done. Time to go home from work.

[Z-Infierno]

wonder if we will be losing equipment during attacks? as we do with units

[Danger Mouse]

Dude, Go get the equipment... for free. Gree isn't devaluing stats, it's adding another aspect to fighting.

If the old timers decide to sit on their hands griping about equipment instead of going and getting it, they have no one to blame but themselves. I don't care if you have a trunk full of AK47's... If you forget to bring ammo, my 9mm and 7 bullets will win. Go get the ammo and win battles. Your big gun will still win.

You say you understand but then you go right back to complaining. But I'm done. Time to go home from work.

Dude, it ain't free. There would be extremely few players out there that could finish Masters in the current ILTQ without spending gold to get there. So now they either have to choose - do they go after Masters and the unit boost, or do they go after equipment in Normal and Prestige to equip their army for the same gold spend, or do they spend more gold and go after both. It most certainly ain't free for the overwhelming majority, so choices have to be made. Before, the top players could just do Masters, collect the reward, collect the temp award along the way, and maintain or increase that gap to the herd. Now, while they do masters to get an advantage in A or D, someone else is collecting all the equipment for probably less cost and keeping level with them in B and building an advantage in C with the extra equipment they got from other levels equipping their army - so clawing back the advantage said top player used to enjoy for finishing Masters, unless they spend more to get that equipment as well.

Who doesn't understand how the game works again?

[Tony81]

Dude, it ain't free. There would be extremely few players out there that could finish Masters in the current ILTQ without spending gold to get there. So now they either have to choose - do they go after Masters and the unit boost, or do they go after equipment in Normal and Prestige to equip their army for the same gold spend, or do they spend more gold and go after both. It most certainly ain't free for the overwhelming majority, so choices have to be made. Before, the top players could just do Masters, collect the reward, collect the temp award along the way, and maintain or increase that gap to the herd. Now, while they do masters to get an advantage in A or D, someone else is collecting all the equipment for probably less cost and keeping level with them in B and building an advantage in C with the extra equipment they got from other levels equipping their army - so clawing back the advantage said top player used to enjoy for finishing Masters, unless they spend more to get that equipment as well.

Who doesn't understand how the game works again?

Many people know you from the forums and let's just say it's not fond memories...

I will do normal through 6, masters through 15, and all of prestige for free. But go ahead, please, don't do the same so we can continue to listen to your ranting on the forums about how life is unfair and eventually you'll retire and then sit on the forums posting constantly about how you are the smart one. We're all tired of it. You don't understand the game as much as you think you do and that's why you complain.

Mods, please block me so I don't feel the need to argue with incompetency.

[Danger Mouse]

Many people know you from the forums and let's just say it's not fond memories...

I will do normal through 6, masters through 15, and all of prestige for free. But go ahead, please, don't do the same so we can continue to listen to your ranting on the forums about how life is unfair and eventually you'll retire and then sit on the forums posting constantly about how you are the smart one. We're all tired of it. You don't understand the game as much as you think you do and that's why you complain.

Mods, please block me so I don't feel the need to argue with incompetency.

So why not masters until the bitter end for the unit reward then? Can't afford it? Decided that other things had higher priority maybe?
-
Thanks for proving my point.
-
By the way, you do realise there's nothing more telling about an argument lost than going the personal attack rather than talk to any of the points raised with a counter argument. "Oh yeah, that may be, but you smell bad!". impressive argument skills.

[Bob Belcher]

You 2 really need to get your own room!
FYI: people aren't having fun with it. Check Kof A forum, nothing is any better!

[Tony81]

so why not masters until the bitter end for the unit reward then? Can't afford it? Decided that other things had higher priority maybe?
-
thanks for proving my point.
-
by the way, you do realise there's nothing more telling about an argument lost than going the personal attack rather than talk to any of the points raised with a counter argument. "oh yeah, that may be, but you smell bad!". Impressive argument skills.

ha! Ha! Ha!

[King Fox]

Many people know you from the forums and let's just say it's not fond memories...

I will do normal through 6, masters through 15, and all of prestige for free. But go ahead, please, don't do the same so we can continue to listen to your ranting on the forums about how life is unfair and eventually you'll retire and then sit on the forums posting constantly about how you are the smart one. We're all tired of it. You don't understand the game as much as you think you do and that's why you complain.

Mods, please block me so I don't feel the need to argue with incompetency.

Amen! Well said.

[Danger Mouse]

Amen! Well said.

Oh, now I'm hurt. I may even pout.

[Ozymandias]

The only thing that this makes less transparent is initial everyday PvP attacks or raids... Although it's unclear why you would be doing those anyway now, and if you did, surely you'd quickly work out different players invisible strength, just as you work out who has a big iph and weaker stats today.

During war, you'd scout out, and presumably docbot would hold records of, both equipment stats... So you'd quickly have the same level of transparency as today. although the more strategic teams would presumably play around with their equipment during war.

[good gawd noooo]

I honestly don't get all the fuss. If you're active and get the equipment, you'll be fine. It's a percentage of the win/loss decision. This early on, it will be swayed heavily to seem unfair to "campers" if you're not gathering equipment. That's on you, not Gree.

Equipment is not handed out in the forums. Go collect it and quit'cher belly-achin'

it is a simple statement of fact. people have spent a lot of time and money or a ton of time and a little money trying to get to the top of the pile. Gree's new change has basically rendered it all completely useless. Due to display glitches in 5.0 I have no clue what my stats actually are to base if I should attack or not. Secondly due to the equipment now playing a HUGE factor even if they are displayed correctly you can still lose to unseen advantages due to avatar equipment. Player spent three years (and yes it is just a game a game they played very well, only to have all the rules changed) building up a good player above average or maybe even a beast among same lvl accounts. One of the things I loved about this game was the simple strategy involved to build a strong account. max Unit buildings up your iph as much as possible complete as many faction side events(and solo in sync) and kick butt in war and fl and you would grow an awesome account. The logic was also simple if your stronger you win... now the logic is you can be insanely stronger but if your avatar isn't equipped your back to square one. Your are also basing you statement on assuming that all the unhappy players are all campers. I am the leader and one of the most active players in my faction on BOTH accounts I run. SO I am far from a camper and I am still VERY unhappy about these changes. All the effort I spent three years building up has been wasted and yes I get it is just a game and when it ends it will be wasted as well. I am far from the strongest of players but for my level I think I do well I am not the strongest on my team but I am in the top 5. I have been debating taking a break from the game due to the fact it was becoming a job... instead now I am seriously thinking of just walking away from the game since it is NOT the game I fell in love with its become a farce of the game I loved. Couple these new upgrades with constant glitches for last few months I honestly believe gree is doing its best to run people off. With the massive failures of recents months and the ios lockout for 6 weeks and this new update that it so glitched it will take months to sort out even IF they don't add anything new. To changing the entire war/pvp/stat makeup of the game so that basically none of the old rules apply... Any person that is management or runs a business or even has a clue of what should be going on will see what gree has been doing is like the book on how to ruin a game in 8 weeks or less

[good gawd noooo]

I'm active. What 'player B' has done or will do has no hearing on how I play the game. I don't need to worry about what equipment someone will have because I more than likely have the same or very close to it. And even if I didnt, I welcome back defensive wins with wide open arms and a smile. HELLO STRATEGY!

The same people griping about the equipment also moan about skill points not working. We have NEVER known what someone's skill points were before an attack. So here ya go... a working "skill point" system you can change in the fly. Again... STRATEGY!

I can't convince you to play a way you are uncomfortable or unfamiliar with so I'll just end with what I've been saying all along... If you don't want to play the game, quit. This IS the game now and no matter what the forum-moaners say, this will be good for the game.

/rant over

if you think a high percentage of long term gold players leaving the game and you think players that walk away with a huge distaste for anything with the gree logo on it is good for the game.. then yes you are absolutely correct. this is not a simple cut and dry picture here/ Glad you like this new version that's awesome you prolly haven't been playing for 3 years. Many light to heavy gold users are just fed up and this isn't the ONLY reason they will walk away but it maybe the straw that broke the camels back. the original point of the post is that the stats everyone works so hard to build mean very little and that is 100% true. so quit bashing the guy that started the post .. and he is also correct that now its all about accessories instead of units.. he clearly stated that he will hold gold use for events that give accessories and NOT chase after units that mean nothing. I really thin Tony just had to pipe up to try to make himself look smart and he FAILED. If he read everything he would of realized the posts made state pretty much the same thing he was droning on about.. oh well cant help the stupid people but he should feel right at home with gree

[SUPpose So]

I see math isn't your strong point. Let me know when you can grab a calculator and are willing to understand simple addition and percentages.

PS, I don't fly planes or actively defend anything. (I believe you mean defenSe)

DEFENCE, dear boy is the correct spelling... Lol

[SUPpose So]

O
if you think a high percentage of long term gold players leaving the game and you think players that walk away with a huge distaste for anything with the gree logo on it is good for the game.. then yes you are absolutely correct. this is not a simple cut and dry picture here/ Glad you like this new version that's awesome you prolly haven't been playing for 3 years. Many light to heavy gold users are just fed up and this isn't the ONLY reason they will walk away but it maybe the straw that broke the camels back. the original point of the post is that the stats everyone works so hard to build mean very little and that is 100% true. so quit bashing the guy that started the post .. and he is also correct that now its all about accessories instead of units.. he clearly stated that he will hold gold use for events that give accessories and NOT chase after units that mean nothing. I really thin Tony just had to pipe up to try to make himself look smart and he FAILED. If he read everything he would of realized the posts made state pretty much the same thing he was droning on about.. oh well cant help the stupid people but he should feel right at home with gree

Agree totally. +1.... +3....... Oh and a masters level19. +9

[Major Elvis Newton]

Yes pvp is totally ****ed for all of us in the billions who spent real money getting there.

[Staffordbhoy]

I don't know if the effect is quite as high as we are thinking. I have 4 players from level 140 to level 275, stats from 4bn attack to 15bn. I have attacked 10 rivals on each, all of which were higher ranks than me and only lost once.
Those of us who have played a long time will remember exactly the same uproar when they brought in units with 40,000 plus stats. We used to have to spend a fortune winning something that big then other night everyone around us caught up. I was the biggest stats player in my faction and dropped to average. A year or so on I'm one of the biggest again.

[Tony81]

I don't know if the effect is quite as high as we are thinking. I have 4 players from level 140 to level 275, stats from 4bn attack to 15bn. I have attacked 10 rivals on each, all of which were higher ranks than me and only lost once.
Those of us who have played a long time will remember exactly the same uproar when they brought in units with 40,000 plus stats. We used to have to spend a fortune winning something that big then other night everyone around us caught up. I was the biggest stats player in my faction and dropped to average. A year or so on I'm one of the biggest again.

Exactly. If you play as you're supposed to, you have nothing to cry about.

All of this uproar is like buying new corvette a few years ago and then when Chevy comes out with a new more-powerful one, you cry because you spent so much on a slower one. Don't like it? Spend more or go buy a different car.

I suggest everyone take that gold money and go by some Kleenex and tampons.

[SUPpose So]

Exactly. If you play as you're supposed to, you have nothing to cry about.

All of this uproar is like buying new corvette a few years ago and then when Chevy comes out with a new more-powerful one, you cry because you spent so much on a slower one. Don't like it? Spend more or go buy a different car.

I suggest everyone take that gold money and go by some Kleenex and tampons.

You are missing the point Tony but nevermind... Its only an app game... Plenty more out there with far less hassle...

happy Xmas

[smbass77]

Perhaps I"m wrong, but this equipment seems just like all the temp boosts. Active players will all get the same things, there by negating the att/def from equipment....so stats are still king.

yes, people who can do Masters itq can get more items. But typically those are the strongest players anyway.

To me, seems like this just puts more distance between the active daily players and the non-daily players.

[Tony81]

Perhaps I"m wrong, but this equipment seems just like all the temp boosts. Active players will all get the same things, there by negating the att/def from equipment....so stats are still king.

yes, people who can do Masters itq can get more items. But typically those are the strongest players anyway.

To me, seems like this just puts more distance between the active daily players and the non-daily players.

Sure does! Hence my "goodbye campers" reference.

And I just like to argue things that don't compute. Forgive me for me rants. Ha. Merry Christmas to you too SUPpose

[Stubby1113]

Tony I was agreeing with you until my last attack. More than double att to def. 9-1 on army equipment. 4-15 on soldier equipment. By Gree's numbers I should have won but no I lost. This really needs to be clarified by gree.

[Tony81]

Tony I was agreeing with you until my last attack. More than double att to def. 9-1 on army equipment. 4-15 on soldier equipment. By Gree's numbers I should have won but no I lost. This really needs to be clarified by gree.

If you listed those correctly, that's totalling 13-16 with you down (without factoring in the 30%/20% deciding factors). I wouldn't say that that's enough of a disparity to say it's broken. The breakdown being 50/20/30 means everything is taken into factor. I'm not going to breakdown every attack I do because I don't care enough (haha) but as numbers grow, the "what the heck" moments will disappear.

[Kefa]

You are missing the point Tony but nevermind... Its only an app game... Plenty more out there with far less hassle...

happy Xmas

Don't you know, it's "Merry Xmas"? hahaha, sorry... couldn't help it ;)

A few people still don't know that there are some slight language differences between UK and U.S.

[Stubby1113]

If you listed those correctly, that's totalling 13-16 with you down (without factoring in the 30%/20% deciding factors). I wouldn't say that that's enough of a disparity to say it's broken. The breakdown being 50/20/30 means everything is taken into factor. I'm not going to breakdown every attack I do because I don't care enough (haha) but as numbers grow, the "what the heck" moments will disappear.

Each section is rated independently so the 13-16 doesn't come into play.

[truthteller]

If you listed those correctly, that's totalling 13-16 with you down (without factoring in the 30%/20% deciding factors). I wouldn't say that that's enough of a disparity to say it's broken. The breakdown being 50/20/30 means everything is taken into factor. I'm not going to breakdown every attack I do because I don't care enough (haha) but as numbers grow, the "what the heck" moments will disappear.

As per greeD statement, you have to win 2 out of the 3 factors, thus that implies you have to account for them individually
so, yes, Stubby1113 SHOULD had win, you cannot "combine" two factors into one (30/20) becuase it defeat its purposes (as per gree)

then again we are dealing with gree Math and Gree logic..........which means all is working as it should and was intented to................. :D

[thebruce]

Yeah... I really don't understand how the PvP math works for the win. It's definitely not straight up win 2 of the 3 options. I've won battles by having higher Att to Def, but less army Atk and less solder Atk.

I'm not sure how a 50/20/30 breakdown of values would work either unless the breakdowns are different for attacker and defender.

What's the actual final math that determines win or loss based on those values?!

[SUPpose So]

Don't you know, it's "Merry Xmas"? hahaha, sorry... couldn't help it ;)

A few people still don't know that there are some slight language differences between UK and U.S.

LoL... You say TomatO !..... We say TomAto !...... Happy Christmas to you too :)

[SUPpose So]

I think i'm going to come back in a year, do an ILTQ and get Equipment worth millions of attack/defence points and be right back at the top again.... It'll save a year of sloggin through mind numbing daily events to get attack/defence equipment that will be useless by then.....

Oh the joys of hindsight ....

[Ozymandias]

Yeah... I really don't understand how the PvP math works for the win. It's definitely not straight up win 2 of the 3 options. I've won battles by having higher Att to Def, but less army Atk and less solder Atk.

I'm not sure how a 50/20/30 breakdown of values would work either unless the breakdowns are different for attacker and defender.

What's the actual final math that determines win or loss based on those values?!

My reading is that it's

50% x army attack/army defence
+
30% x army equip attack/army equip defence
+
20% x solder equip attack/soldier equip defence
*
Some random factor (probably)

[2MblaZ]

I think i'm going to come back in a year, do an ILTQ and get Equipment worth millions of attack/defence points and be right back at the top again.... It'll save a year of sloggin through mind numbing daily events to get attack/defence equipment that will be useless by then.....

Oh the joys of hindsight ....

Sadly, but very, very true... those staying loyal [addicted] to this game get least benefit... Proving that any addiction ends bad lol

[good gawd noooo]

Exactly. If you play as you're supposed to, you have nothing to cry about.

All of this uproar is like buying new corvette a few years ago and then when Chevy comes out with a new more-powerful one, you cry because you spent so much on a slower one. Don't like it? Spend more or go buy a different car.

I suggest everyone take that gold money and go by some Kleenex and tampons.

actually it is EXACTLY.. so he spent over a year to be the biggest on his team only to lose it.. then spent another year to be biggest and LOST IT AGAIN.. and he and others will do it again.. and it is NOT the same as buying a corvette then crying cause next years model is better.. unless you gonna say that you buy the corvette then chevy comes along and rips out all the parts that gives it horsepower..... Gree keeps changing the rules and that way things work and screwing over all the people that spend money to build players up. they are showing is NO POINT to buying gold and building as next year they will just change the rules again. as for the gold for tampons and Kleenex I tried but apparently YOU bought out the whole store aparently your a heavy bleeder.. actually jokes aside instead of turning it to a personal attack you should find constructive comments to make.. or is it your time of the month??? when you build something according to their rules and then when your on top they change the rules you do have a right to complain and when it happens twice you are entitled to a full refund... I know I got a ton back since they changed everything in relation to how game is played and negated all that I and other spent gold on.. gotta love the refund.. almost soiled myself when I saw how much a "light: gold user spends in 3 years

[GI Janers]

Im 400M and winning over guys 800m in regular A and D. Sadly Im losing to some 200M less than me. All based on the new equipment.

[Milburn Pennybags]

We're going to be doing another AMA on Thursday this week where we discuss these or any other questions you have for us.

However, there are also a few things I can clarify now.

First, as far as how the battle works, the calculation is about 50% army power, 30% army equipment, 20% solider equipment. Each one of those is computed separately. Within each segment, the attack of the attacker versus the defense of the defender is the most important factor. We do also allow for the attack of the defender versus the defense of the attacker to have a lesser influence as well. Within each segment we basically look at a margin of victory in percentage terms. Then we add up each segment weighted according to the above to determine the final outcome. Chance also plays some role, as it has throughout the history of warfare. The impact of randomness on battle outcomes in the formula is roughly comparable to where it has been throughout the history of the game.

At this point we haven't changed the impact of player attack and defense stats. We would like to increase the influence these stats have on battle outcomes, but we would like to wait until we can offer players the option to reset their skill points before making such a change in order to be fair to everyone.

The goal of introducing soldier equipment is to allow a new avenue for players to strengthen themselves and bring some importance back to your player in the game. We want you to be able to feel your power grow as you get better and better equipment for yourself and your army. Our goal is that this should be a fun and exciting way to develop your character in addition to building up the army. Your army is still the most important factor in determining your success or failure in war, but equipment will come into play particularly when armies are close in strength.

A number of people have asked about why equipment is not in the store for purchase. Right now, we wanted to allow equipment to be earned in the course of gameplay to reward active players and allow everyone a fair chance to accumulate strength on this. In the future we are planning to increase the number of ways players can get equipment, but for now we wanted to distribute things in the way that seemed the most fun and fair.

As I mentioned before we're having another AMA this week, and we'd love to answer more of your questions during that time.

[Danger Mouse]

We're going to be doing another AMA on Thursday this week where we discuss these or any other questions you have for us.

However, there are also a few things I can clarify now.

First, as far as how the battle works, the calculation is about 50% army power, 30% army equipment, 20% solider equipment. Each one of those is computed separately. Within each segment, the attack of the attacker versus the defense of the defender is the most important factor. We do also allow for the attack of the defender versus the defense of the attacker to have a lesser influence as well. Within each segment we basically look at a margin of victory in percentage terms. Then we add up each segment weighted according to the above to determine the final outcome. Chance also plays some role, as it has throughout the history of warfare. The impact of randomness on battle outcomes in the formula is roughly comparable to where it has been throughout the history of the game.

At this point we haven't changed the impact of player attack and defense stats. We would like to increase the influence these stats have on battle outcomes, but we would like to wait until we can offer players the option to reset their skill points before making such a change in order to be fair to everyone.

The goal of introducing soldier equipment is to allow a new avenue for players to strengthen themselves and bring some importance back to your player in the game. We want you to be able to feel your power grow as you get better and better equipment for yourself and your army. Our goal is that this should be a fun and exciting way to develop your character in addition to building up the army. Your army is still the most important factor in determining your success or failure in war, but equipment will come into play particularly when armies are close in strength.

A number of people have asked about why equipment is not in the store for purchase. Right now, we wanted to allow equipment to be earned in the course of gameplay to reward active players and allow everyone a fair chance to accumulate strength on this. In the future we are planning to increase the number of ways players can get equipment, but for now we wanted to distribute things in the way that seemed the most fun and fair.

As I mentioned before we're having another AMA this week, and we'd love to answer more of your questions during that time.

I'm out, slashed and burned and then onward gave away everything, so I'll say it as it is then leave for ever, so no point banning me for good - in fact you'll do me a favour. Was in the process of deleting account when I saw this.
-
Complete BS. I love the way gree couch hard nosed business decisions as if they are doing us a favour.
-
Gree noticed revenue dropping off on ILTQ events as the big spenders hardly touch them any more, doing faction events instead. What to do about it? Bring in a system where their unit stat A/D buffer is slashed back to the herd and they have to compete in these events to get the prizes, along with everyone else. Sure, some have big energy regen rates so can do it easier, but a hell of a lot don't, so now have to spend more across ALL events to remain competitive.
-
Stop insulting our intelligence. You want everyone under the pump to spend to keep up, not resting through events with a comfortable margin back to the herd. Trouble is, it's backfiring. My entire faction quit, sold up and we just gave it away to a Newbie for free rather than spend another penny on your BS.

Thanks for nothing. Now I'm really gone for good. ban me if you like, couldn't care less.

[Ozymandias]

First, as far as how the battle works, the calculation is about 50% army power, 30% army equipment, 20% solider equipment. Each one of those is computed separately. Within each segment, the attack of the attacker versus the defense of the defender is the most important factor. We do also allow for the attack of the defender versus the defense of the attacker to have a lesser influence as well.

What % of the 50% does defender attack vs attacker defence account for?

[Milburn Pennybags]

What % of the 50% does defender attack vs attacker defence account for?

This is a great question. The answer is that it is not a fixed percent precisely. The greater the disparity between the attack of the attacker and the defense of the defender the less the defense of the attacker and the attack of the defender come into play. In other words, if 10B attack attacks 100M defense, the defender attack vs. attacker defense matters much much less than if 10B attack is going up against 9.9B defense. However, in all cases the defender attack vs. attacker defense counts for less than attacker attack vs. defender defense.

[Led]

This is a great question. The answer is that it is not a fixed percent precisely. The greater the disparity between the attack of the attacker and the defense of the defender the less the defense of the attacker and the attack of the defender come into play. In other words, if 10B attack attacks 100M defense, the defender attack vs. attacker defense matters much much less than if 10B attack is going up against 9.9B defense. However, in all cases the defender attack vs. attacker defense counts for less than attacker attack vs. defender defense.




:confused:



***edit***

Wtf

[Ozymandias]

This is a great question. The answer is that it is not a fixed percent precisely. The greater the disparity between the attack of the attacker and the defense of the defender the less the defense of the attacker and the attack of the defender come into play. In other words, if 10B attack attacks 100M defense, the defender attack vs. attacker defense matters much much less than if 10B attack is going up against 9.9B defense. However, in all cases the defender attack vs. attacker defense counts for less than attacker attack vs. defender defense.

So are you not calculating the two ratios individually and then weighting them... (like with the 50/30/20) ? If so what are the weightings?

[Ozymandias]

Also, if defender attack stats matter, wouldn't it make sense to be able to see them on the results screen when we do an attack?

[Web323]

This is a great question. The answer is that it is not a fixed percent precisely. The greater the disparity between the attack of the attacker and the defense of the defender the less the defense of the attacker and the attack of the defender come into play. In other words, if 10B attack attacks 100M defense, the defender attack vs. attacker defense matters much much less than if 10B attack is going up against 9.9B defense. However, in all cases the defender attack vs. attacker defense counts for less than attacker attack vs. defender defense.

Care to explain how a player can have 22/22 in equipment?

[mugsyny]

Solder equipment, sucks. Now you have to go for masters or you might as well stop playing, or spending a ton of cash on gold. Player vrs player is for gree so they can make more money.

[SUPpose So]

Change is good but change for change sake and dressed up to revive flagging revenues is not...

Most of my playing buddies have migrated to CoC... Think its time to join them...

Biggest exodus i've seen of $5k-$10k per month spend players.... Hope you know what you are doing MoneyPenny but i think your strings are pulled by a higher hand...

have a great Christmas All..... I'm out for good...

[Ozymandias]

At this point we haven't changed the impact of player attack and defense stats. We would like to increase the influence these stats have on battle outcomes, but we would like to wait until we can offer players the option to reset their skill points before making such a change in order to be fair to everyone.

.

It would be really helpful if you could you confirm how player attack and defence stats are working. Are they adding to army stats in the 50%, so are effectively meaningless? Or are they added to soldier equipment in the 20%? Or applied in some other way?

[Asto]

It doesn't matter how active you are, if you don't get the AK47 in this case, you will fall behind. Losing to someone less than half the stats is bad enough, even with the equipment brought into the equation. Take this example:

say you have a knife and some pretty strong, expensive armor (person A) whilst your opponent (person B) has a gun and virtually no armor whatsoever. Even with the strong armor you'd expect person A to lose as person B can freely move about and shoot person person A without any real harm, as long as he stays out of knife reach. If you take out the theory of some ****ed up superpowers or any extremely unlikely events, person B will win hands down. Take that example and put it into this game (I know that I'm comparing real life to some game and most of the time that is incomparable) and you'll realise that this idea is absurd and if equipment is going to have an affect on pvp then maybe gree should reconsider making it have less of an impact on the result. Just my opinion but I believe it's justified

[Ozymandias]

You're forgetting the potential impact of the watch, sunglasses and boots.

[2MblaZ]

It would be really helpful if you could you confirm how player attack and defence stats are working. Are they adding to army stats in the 50%, so are effectively meaningless? Or are they added to soldier equipment in the 20%? Or applied in some other way?

Expect another incoherent response... if main devs appear with cluelessness in their responses - it's a good signal for all guinea pigs who spent real $ to perhaps poke around themselves for either another game that's actually well run and even more fun, or another old forgotten app called "REAL LIFE' - it can be totally cool at times with right worldview... :cool:

Lights out on main act, allies dropped to whatever grunts sitting there, over $200b unvaulted, all those in need of cash will have long time to chip away in $3.6m increments - enjoy! :rolleyes:

mini left to observe end and fade away in small faction - thanks GREE for finishing nailing coffin of once really cool game - few in this market could do such damage to a game if they tried intentionally, or was it the strategy to kill it?...

-_-

[Major Elvis Newton]

Yeah, **** it. I'm bailing too. Ya'll have fun.

[c0t0d0s0]

First, as far as how the battle works, the calculation is about 50% army power, 30% army equipment, 20% solider equipment. Each one of those is computed separately. Within each segment, the attack of the attacker versus the defense of the defender is the most important factor. [...]Within each segment we basically look at a margin of victory in percentage terms. Then we add up each segment weighted according to the above to determine the final outcome.

This makes sense. Let's consider the following scenario though:

I'm attacking someone, and I'm 200% stronger on Army Attack, while the other person is 1000% stronger than me on Equipment because he has just a few extra items where I have 1, and let's say it's a tie on the Soldier stats.

If it's only a question of adding weighed ratios, then i should lose an attack. Yet this does not seem to be happening: a 200% advantage in Army Attack alone seems to guarantee a win no matter what the other 2 stats are.

So, is there a cap on each ratio to prevent unfair losses while the items are in single digits? if so, what is it?