Ability Points Reallocation

[robmurphy]

I know this topic has been on this forum many times, and I don't want it to sound like a whinge because I have over 200 points allocated to both attack and defence (doh........).

But, I think it's a genuine issue as the points allocated to attack and defence seem to have absolutely no affect on attack and defence stats.

Last time this topic was on here, CJ54 told us this was being considered as a one-off option. This had apparently been done in one of Grees other games.

Perhaps the ability points allocated to attack and defence do have some effect in Grees algorithms, but they've never revealed that.

If they are pointless, then surely Gree should remove the option to allocate ability points to attack and defence. If this is too big an infrastructure change to justify, then allow us to reallocate them to stains or energy.

Thoughts Gree?

[I Will Merc You]

Great post rm.

Keep this one at the top.

[doeboy]

Yes please everybody wants this please

[Mr.Grumpy]

+1
............

[robmurphy]

Maybe I should start a running total of the number of days that pass before Gree give an answer.

[Robespierre]

. . . If this is too big an infrastructure change to justify, then allow us to reallocate them to stains or energy.

Yes, please allow us to allocate points to stains . . . please.

[ju100]

Maybe I should start a running total of the number of days that pass before Gree give an answer.

Yes, you should...

[Wingman GRI]

Bump............

[sebasz]

all the skill points I spent on attack an defense.. such a waste. Gree should atleast do something about it. Either make them have some influence on stats or give us the option to allocate them

[killbillbst]

I'll save them having to post the standard stock response...

"Thank you for the suggestion, I'll pass it on to the developers for consideration"

[Snatcher]

Indeed sit back and watch how you wont get An answer from gr33dy gree

[Dog bite]

+1
Some type of feedback on the request would be great.

[robmurphy]

Cool. Let's keep it near the top and Tadaah may notice

[Fergus14]

I'm more than happy with mine, no change please

[I Will Merc You]

Important posts deserve a bump.

Keep this at the top.

[-Commando-]

Yes, More energy please.

[Tadaaah]

This is still in discussion. We don't have anything definitive yet, but there are some other items in the works right now to help with this as well. We can bring up the topic again.

It's possible this could end up being an item in the shop. Thoughts?

[Oski]

Absolutely shocking that Gree will give us a chance to redistribute our skill points if we are willing to pay for it! Always squeezing every nickel you can. Thank you but no Gree.

[I Will Merc You]

Absolutely shocking that Gree will give us a chance to redistribute our skill points if we are willing to pay for it! Always squeezing every nickel you can. Thank you but no Gree.

^ this is not a time to be counter-productive.

Tadaaah, thank you for your post. Very curious to see how a shop item can correlate with skill points. Could you possibly elaborate a little bit, or, is it still too soon in the development to begin throwing out ideas? Again, thank you for your response, and I am very interested to see where this leads! :)

[Oski]

Spoken like a Gree employee.

[Tadaaah]

^ this is not a time to be counter-productive.

Tadaaah, thank you for your post. Very curious to see how a shop item can correlate with skill points. Could you possibly elaborate a little bit, or, is it still too soon in the development to begin throwing out ideas? Again, thank you for your response, and I am very interested to see where this leads! :)

More or less brainstorming for ideas to present to the teams to create a stronger stance. Trying to imagine hypothetical conversations and a range of responses, then create responses to those responses to try and push a feature that has come up more than numerous times here in the forums.

Working on games in the past, I've seen this feature come into play in a number of different ways. So trying to find some balanced middle ground. Maybe when it's first introduced you have a one time, limited time use; then it goes into the store so you can't abuse the feature?

[Adm. J(K96)]

Counter productive? Gree asked for thoughts on selling it. Thoughts are it sucks. They should have worked in the first place, now they want us to pay? Screw that. One more thing to sell that doesn't work. You've got to be kidding!

[Adm. J(K96)]

Here's a hypothetical Taadaaah. You tell them it's broken, that it doesn't work and needs fixing. If they fix it, no problem if they can't or won't, then get rid of it. No problem there either.

Oh wait, none of that's hypothetical. It's reality!

[truthteller]

More or less brainstorming for ideas to present to the teams to create a stronger stance. Trying to imagine hypothetical conversations and a range of responses, then create responses to those responses to try and push a feature that has come up more than numerous times here in the forums.

Working on games in the past, I've seen this feature come into play in a number of different ways. So trying to find some balanced middle ground. Maybe when it's first introduced you have a one time, limited time use; then it goes into the store so you can't abuse the feature?

Tadaaah: thanks for your response

to give you an idea, on the LAW game (Now on life support for a couple more months before they pull they plug), long ago (probably 8 months or more) they introduce the "reset skills scroll" if was given as an easy to win prize (like those kill 1 target event and get the prize).
Gree pull away all assets from LAW to concentrate on other titles, so it should be very easy to implement it in MW using the same coding used in LAW

That feature was only given once, never again, not even as a purchase item on the store, which would have made lots of real cash with all the gold/gem spenders buying it all the time to move their skills from ATK to DEF to Energy depending on what event they would work best

[I Will Merc You]

Spoken like a Gree employee.

Spoken like a Lurker.

Nothing wrong with a little brainstorming! All this topic needs a little time, and pressure, and I personally now know that GREE is giving both. That is OK with me. What else can we possibly ask for?

Perhaps if we can collectively keep this thread from 'locked status' by not traveling the Road of Trolls, this issue could possibly get resolved.

[What?]

If attack and defense points don't do anything, why don't just get rid of them and the points a player had in attack and defense get put back as skill points to disperse for stamina and energy. Case closed. There is no need for an intricate system or purchase option. Players have been bamboozled thinking attack and defense points actually did something for years now. The longer the attack and defense points stay up the bigger the problem, because I'm sure there are still new players that are adding these worthless points.

[robmurphy]

Working on games in the past, I've seen this feature come into play in a number of different ways. So trying to find some balanced middle ground. Maybe when it's first introduced you have a one time, limited time use; then it goes into the store so you can't abuse the feature?

I think this is an excellent suggestion Tadaah.

A one-time free reallocation takes away the problem of what we all see as a broken system.

If players want to subsequently reallocate their ability points to gain an advantage for events etc., then that's fine, but it'll cost them gold.

Thanks Tadaah.

[Tadaaah]

Additional thought (This is under the assumption I understand the problem correctly: is you all think ATK and DEF mean nothing):

Who is to say that those stats will never mean anything (in more obvious ways)? Just food for thought.

[Adm. J(K96)]

If they have a function, then there is no need for a reset. The only real reason most want a reset is because they currently do nothing, and haven't so for some time. While others may want a reset just for the hell of it, having the a/d actually work gives you grounds for not having to do it.

[Auspex]

Tadaaah I'm pretty certain it has been said more then a few times here that we would rather the issue be fixed but if it can't be fixed in a timely fashion (like 6 months ago) then we should be allowed to move points to working choices.

Pretty simply. It doesn't work, It hasn't been fixed, can we all get out points back please. If you are going to fix it 3 months after we all move our points and then give us a paid option to move them back well then 'touche'.

[Kefa]

More or less brainstorming for ideas to present to the teams to create a stronger stance. Trying to imagine hypothetical conversations and a range of responses, then create responses to those responses to try and push a feature that has come up more than numerous times here in the forums.

Working on games in the past, I've seen this feature come into play in a number of different ways. So trying to find some balanced middle ground. Maybe when it's first introduced you have a one time, limited time use; then it goes into the store so you can't abuse the feature?



That is perfect in my view. When it is first released, let everyone reassign their skill points one time for free however they like. Then, going forward, let people reassign all their skill points for 50 gold, like changing your nation flag or game name. A 50-gold purchase would set all allocations to 0 and put all your skill points back in "available skill points" to be distributed.


edit - simply making the attack and def points suddenly valuable in the game doesn't solve it, because then you'll have the other side very upset for having all their points stuck in energy. However, if the game allows for re-allocation, then changing the usefulness of the different skills in game would have less negative impact.

[robmurphy]

That is perfect in my view. When it is first released, let everyone reassign their skill points one time for free however they like. Then, going forward, let people reassign all their skill points for 50 gold, like changing your nation flag or game name. A 50-gold purchase would set all allocations to 0 and put all your skill points back in "available skill points" to be distributed.


edit - simply making the attack and def points suddenly valuable in the game doesn't solve it, because then you'll have the other side very upset for having all their points stuck in energy. However, if the game allows for re-allocation, then changing the usefulness of the different skills in game would have less negative impact.

Excellent additional point kefa

[I Will Merc You]

Additional thought (This is under the assumption I understand the problem correctly: is you all think ATK and DEF mean nothing):

Who is to say that those stats will never mean anything (in more obvious ways)? Just food for thought.

^ Yes, I assume that ATK and DEF ultimately have very little effect on the game play, and, I am very hopeful that I'm wrong :)

[Utisz]

More or less brainstorming for ideas to present to the teams to create a stronger stance. Trying to imagine hypothetical conversations and a range of responses, then create responses to those responses to try and push a feature that has come up more than numerous times here in the forums.

Working on games in the past, I've seen this feature come into play in a number of different ways. So trying to find some balanced middle ground. Maybe when it's first introduced you have a one time, limited time use; then it goes into the store so you can't abuse the feature?

Thank you for this sound answer. Many of us who started out playing a while back were given the understanding that A/D Skill points helped in battle. Based upon that information I allocated 250 skill points to A/D.

Apparently now that is no longer the case. So we have two options.

a) allow us to reallocate our skill points one time. (Lets not make it a everyday thing for the rich and famous)

b) make A/D skill points relevant. (With some idea given to us on how they work so that we are not just blindly allocating points to A/D with no idea if there is a benefit.)

Again thank you for at least acknowledging that we have a real concern and I encourage you to get the powers that be, to actually address this long festering issue.

:)

[backstabber]

Additional thought (This is under the assumption I understand the problem correctly: is you all think ATK and DEF mean nothing):

Who is to say that those stats will never mean anything (in more obvious ways)? Just food for thought.

Yes the current issue is that A/D do not work as announced in game. Everyone that has allocated points to this skill set has essentially lost them.

Even if you do make then relevant, depending on HOW they become relevant, a skill reset is still in order. Maybe someone who had put them all in ATK would now want them to be put under DEF because of the new way the skills are used.

Also, those who have started their accounts after the problem was made public would have zero points allocated here...so they to would be frustrated if ever they did have a purpose again.

Cliffs: in all situations, a change in game mechanics should allow past players to adjust.

As for store item, i do believe that having it in there for 50-100 gold would be a good idea, once we all get a chance at a FREE skill reset.

Gold players could then buy these items and allocate points based on event, ie all energy for ltqs, all stamina if ever PvP events come back, a/d for WD.

[Lift Ticket]

Additional thought (This is under the assumption I understand the problem correctly: is you all think ATK and DEF mean nothing):

Who is to say that those stats will never mean anything (in more obvious ways)? Just food for thought.

They don't now...how can a person with a 1/4 the attack stats of my defensive stats raid my base and be successful 29/30 times when I have 185 def skills points to his 25 att skill points. Clearly they mean nothing, it's just bad programming.

I for one would be more than happy for a one-time (FULL) redistribution of skill points (not just a set amount)

[Gerard Figallo]

Additional thought (This is under the assumption I understand the problem correctly: is you all think ATK and DEF mean nothing):

Who is to say that those stats will never mean anything (in more obvious ways)? Just food for thought.

I have very limited skill point in attack/defence (30 on each) and i've never been disadvantaged in attacking/raiding

[robmurphy]

I'll set up a poll to see what percentage of people would like a one off free reallocation, followed by further reallocations costing 50 to 100 gold

Please make your vote.

[doeboy]

Thank you for the response and I am all for the one time free and pay after how soon
Can we hope for this soon please before fltq after all it is player appreciation month

[Adm. J(K96)]

You had me until the pay after part. Unless something is done to limit it, I see it becoming a big headache down the line.

[Veccster]

I posted in the POLL thread as to why I don't think it's fair to have a reset...whether you pay or not.

It's the decision you made and, as the game evolved, it became the wrong decision. How about the players that started 3 years ago and made the VERY LUCKY decision to not put anything into A/D. Is it fair for them?

I started a new profile so that I could do it right the 2nd time.


There are decisions that we make in this game that are going to pay off and others that won't pay off.
I would LOVE to have back all the upgrade time I have invested into the currently useless Defense Buildings. But that wouldn't be fair.
I would LOVE to have back all the money I initially spent on low stat units that used to have a meaning in this game. But that wouldn't be fair.

The only reason you want the reallocation is because it will benefit your individual armies. So your poll is going to lean toward that. People vote YES because they are thinking of themselves and not what is fair to the majority.

[I Will Merc You]

I posted in the POLL thread as to why I don't think it's fair to have a reset...whether you pay or not.

It's the decision you made and, as the game evolved, it became the wrong decision. How about the players that started 3 years ago and made the VERY LUCKY decision to not put anything into A/D. Is it fair for them?

I started a new profile so that I could do it right the 2nd time.


There are decisions that we make in this game that are going to pay off and others that won't pay off.
I would LOVE to have back all the upgrade time I have invested into the currently useless Defense Buildings. But that wouldn't be fair.
I would LOVE to have back all the money I initially spent on low stat units that used to have a meaning in this game. But that wouldn't be fair.

The only reason you want the reallocation is because it will benefit your individual armies. So your poll is going to lean toward that. People vote YES because they are thinking of themselves and not what is fair to the majority.

I voted no in the poll, for all of the reasons you just posted. Instead of reallocation, simply put skill points to use, equally. "Use" is very loose term. The following is my logic;

Purpose (and reward) for energy: If ALL skill points used exclusively here, the reward is the ability to finish LTQs and receive the bonuses and rewards for doing so.

Purpose (and reward) for stamina: If ALL skill points used exclusively here, the reward is not what it once was with PVP tournaments.

Purpose (and reward) for Attack: If ALL skill points used exclusively here, the reward should be reflected in a player's ability to successfully attack (not raid) a stronger rival.

Purpose (and reward) for Defense: If ALL skill points used exclusively here, the reward should be reflected in a player's ability to successfully defend against a stronger rival's attack.

There are 4 skills, and each should have their own, unique, and equal benefit.

[Adm. J(K96)]

I have to disagree with your basic premise. While your examples of defense buildings and weak units aren't untrue, the fact is at those times you made those choices, there was a benefit. There still is a benefit, although maybe not much of one. They may not be the value they once were, but they still perform exactly the way they were designed to. When you talk about a/d skill points, the fact is they are broken, and as such offer nothing at all. Not because the game has evolved, as in your other examples, but because of a fundamental flaw in the programming. Anyone who made the "right" choice 3 years ago isn't punished in any way if they are reset.

However if a reset is in order, it must not happen unless the ability to use them for a/d is either fixed or removed. Otherwise this issue will just keep rearing it's head.

[Veccster]

I have to disagree with your basic premise. While your examples of defense buildings and weak units aren't untrue, the fact is at those times you made those choices, there was a benefit. There still is a benefit, although maybe not much of one. They may not be the value they once were, but they still perform exactly the way they were designed to. When you talk about a/d skill points, the fact is they are broken, and as such offer nothing at all. Not because the game has evolved, as in your other examples, but because of a fundamental flaw in the programming. Anyone who made the "right" choice 3 years ago isn't punished in any way if they are reset.

However if a reset is in order, it must not happen unless the ability to use them for a/d is either fixed or removed. Otherwise this issue will just keep rearing it's head.

True but are you able to 100% verify that there was absolutely no benefit EVER to this part of the game. Perhaps in the first couple months of the game, having a few points over a rival made a difference?? I don't think anyone but the programmers and developers can confirm that it's a "flaw in the programming". I assume that at some point somewhere along the way, there was a strategy and benefit behind A/D skill allocations. Much like defense buildings, it got lost in the excessive inflation we have seen.

I'll agree though that low stat units still do have meaning for levels < 5.

Defense building do nothing to protect buildings....even for levels < 5. I have a drone account that gets raided by lower stat players and have defense buildings protecting those output buildings.

[Adm. J(K96)]

Well, the defense building thing gets all rolled up into the current larger issue of anybody being able to raid anybody else.

[Auspex]

basically defense in this game is just a joke. You don't really have any defense at all since anyone with almost any stats can raid your buildings.

My question is why do we keep playing? With broken game mechanics and no plan from Gree if you're spending money on this game you're might as well use it in your fireplace for heat. There is NO VALUE for anything you buy in game since there is no clear game mechanic set out in advance.

At this point I think I've logged in about 10 times a month unless we have a faction event then I play to support the faction but even then I'm barely involved. I've just moved on to other games that actually have plans, mechanics that don't change and communication with players. MW was potentially the best game too bad they just hooped it into a piece of crap.

[Splat!]

Please do not suddenly turn on skill points. 6 accts, 15 months of active daily play, and I believe Gree's worst hour was when W/o notice on a Thursday b4 WD, Gree suddenly made saved Valor the single most important decision a player could have made. Dumb players didn't spend their valor, and suddenly vaulted over those who had smartly played by Grees rules and spent it all on units with stats of 45, and I don't mean thousands, but 45.

All the smart planning, strategy, gold spending and such meant nothing at all. Nothing. Screw us for trying. The only thing that mattered was whether one hadn't spent their near useless valor yet prior to that particular Thursday. That arbitrary. That's not a game. That's just random happenings. And many of our officers, Leader and mbrs quit w/in 3 days of that horrible decision and how badly it was implemented. Gree should have converted prior bought units to the 500 times new units. And now Tadaaah, you propose to do that again with skill points. No way.

Smart players either didn't take any skill points, or like me, bought them early on believing no game designer would be so stupid and lazy as to design 1/2 the level up rewards choices have no function at all, and not even put in a warning or say so in this forum. But that is what happened.

Suddenly turning on skill points says to the smart players, you were stupid for knowing better, stupid for seeking out the game rules and playing by them, so now we will punish you severely and elevate the idiot players with 110 defense points and only 800 energy above you just as we did with the Valor fiasco.

Gree screwed up by having them, never making them work, and NEVER admitting to it. Either leave them nonfunctional and remove as a choice, or let us make a 1 time reallocation but ONLY AFTER you clearly announce what the new game rules will be, so informed choices can be made to recover from a major game design flaw, and subsequent cover up.

[Splat!]

I have 6 accts with a wide range of A and D Skill points. There is absolutely no detectable difference between my acct w 87 Attack and my acct with zero Attack skill points. None at all, not on raids Attacks or farming for folders. Nada Bing, Nada Boom!

Those with only 1 acct often convince themselves they must do something, because how else could it be possible in this or any other game to lose to someone with 500M lower defense??? It is possible because their is no connection, and that illogic should surprise no one reading this, am I right, lol. Gree designed in a gynormous randomness factor in raids and Attacks that is the real culprit. Don't believe me, then go raid someone right now whose defense is 3 times your Attack. I guarantee you will win! I win raids every time lately with 1/3rd the Attack needed, whether my acct w 87 attack points or my acct with zero Attack points, makes no difference.

Tadaaah, I know you were trying to be all mysterious, but please don't post misdirections such as, "how do we know?" We know! The best thing to do is come clean, full mea culpa, and only implement a change if, and only if, it does not unfairly penalize or those who had the correct knowledge and made correct use of that knowledge. That does not retroactively alter the balance of the game.

Tadaaah, if Gree simply must, then 1st level the playing field. Transfer EVERYONE's A and D skill points to energy, then implement any new rules prospectively, so their are no winners or losers (except every single player at lvl 300) of a purely arbitrary and utterly unfair mid game rules change, as Gree horrifically did with the Valor fiasco before you hired on here. Dont suddenly turn bad game decisions to stock up on useless A and D into great decisions, and vice versa.

[headfaction]

Yeah there are bigger issues in the game then some skill points. Any other role playing game out there say the player had 5,000,000 defense and you had 4,999,999 attack you would lose every hit. It's BS. No to mention the percentages on unit mods not adding up. That's what we should be fighting for here....

[Mr t]

Hmmm interesting... Hope something will change soon.
Awesome thread.
And give leaders a reset fac points / donations button while changing the game.

Get it done asap plz

[Baltimore Bully]

Yeah there are bigger issues in the game then some skill points. Any other role playing game out there say the player had 5,000,000 defense and you had 4,999,999 attack you would lose every hit. It's BS. No to mention the percentages on unit mods not adding up. That's what we should be fighting for here....

Exactly what I've been thinking about! Finally someone said it. I'm sick of getting beat by players with way less attack then my defense. Gree change this!

[lopesd]

Id like to see def and attack points giving a straight out percentage gain ie every point spent gives 0.5% gain. It would allow greater customization of your account.

Id also like the Ability to change this via gold but there should also be a time limit ie cant change more than once a cycle to stop abuse

[Graves]

This is still in discussion. We don't have anything definitive yet, but there are some other items in the works right now to help with this as well. We can bring up the topic again.

It's possible this could end up being an item in the shop. Thoughts?

Item in shop?
Like unit that gains stats by your ATT/DEF?

Ie. Unit Att = 1.000.000 times your Att points
Unit Def = 1.000.000 times your Att points

[robmurphy]

This is still in discussion. We don't have anything definitive yet, but there are some other items in the works right now to help with this as well. We can bring up the topic again.

It's possible this could end up being an item in the shop. Thoughts?

Hi Tadaaah, I've left it another month since this post was up, have you guys made any decisions yet?

Thanks

Rob

[Tovman]

Wouldn't hold my breath on this one. With latest round of defective updates, shutting players out of their games, it won't matter.

[Agent Orange]

Attack and def skill points actually do 'work' just not the way you would think they should because they do not. But depending on how you allocated them they do seem to make a difference during WD.

[Ninuzzo]

interesting thread.... I would like to see any change in this skills points badly allocated... I've 96 in attack... and it seams they don't work... I'm loosing fight against players that have less def than my att... so this is really strange!

[BrisingrBoss]

Additional thought (This is under the assumption I understand the problem correctly: is you all think ATK and DEF mean nothing):

Who is to say that those stats will never mean anything (in more obvious ways)? Just food for thought.

My suggestion is to make them good for something. have these points be a multiplier for alliance attack and defense % so 1 attack skill gives 1% alliance attack and so on. or even better have them multiply by the player level in a way. like level/100* attack/defense skill

for example, a level 250 would have 2.5%*(number of skill points) attack added per attack skill. so if he has 30 skill points on attack he will have 75% added to attack, or if he puts another 30 on defense, he would have another 75% on defense. and every time he leveled up, he would gain a little bit of stats based on that .01 percent per level that he gets, multiplied by number of skills. so if he puts on 100 skills on attack or defense, he gets 1% extra per level(meaning a total on the example before, 250 percent at level 250, and 251 percent at level 251) that might seem like a lot of attack and defense added all at once, but if you combine that with the option for all the players who didn't invest in attack or defense skills to do so, it would make leveling up desirable again, as it would add a percentual to their attack and or defense based on how many points they have invested there. that's it, people will have to stop complaining about leveling up, AND will stop complaining about their skill points being meaningless. big jump i know, but everyone gets it.

[Rolinz]

I think when Gree changes their algorithm, aka Gree Math, they should give us a token to be able make the change. We decide when to use it.

When they change things up again, we get another token, to use or save for later.

We also don't want to make it complicated in how things are computed. Things get easily screwed up when you do that.

Just my 2 cents.

[SausageFear]

This last war I happened upon many disappointing losses that should have been wins while attacking. While Android falters in so many aspects of MW gameplay equalization (having to find the name in the opposing faction list of up to 60 names EVERY health refresh, to name the obvious), the display of attack and defense skill points on attacks brings this issue to obvious light. When I attack someone with 2.94B atk and 170 atk points, but lose to their 2.4B def and 10 def skill points, that is an outright insult, and when I assume it was a fluke and lose again, that is downright pathetic. If you make them actually do something, fine. But with all the focus on FLTQ for massive units recently, I'd rather have an additional 2000+ energy pool to work with.

[ivez]

So why can't gree do something about this? I have 300 useless skill points invested in attack and defence and it does absolutely nothing. If was the wiser when started would have put more in energy and stamina.

[HellRaizer]

So why can't gree do something about this? I have 300 useless skill points invested in attack and defence and it does absolutely nothing. If was the wiser when started would have put more in energy and stamina.

simple.. They don't give you what you want in the hope that you decide to create a new energy focused LLP. Then before you know it you are spending on both. Six months down the line a new PvP event requires a shed load of stamina and again you are left wishing

[DieselPowered]

I would like an option to change my skill points as well. I would be happy to agree to a free first time and an x-amount of gold to do it in the future. Im sure gree will make money with that option as well. I too have many allocated skill points in attack and defense due to the fact of not knowing that they are as useless as defense buildings at the moment. I also spent many skill points in stam (2+yrs ago) during the pvp events to get battle points then those events were removed and I have a ton of extra that I rarely get to use. I loved those events and missions to raid other bases as well (attack supply depot 10x etc) but they were removed. Now its all about energy. If we had a way of reallocating skill points then as these game changes are made we would have a way of adapting with the game instead of a "sorry about your luck, start a new account". For those that will disagree, this is just my opinion.

[Rolinz]

Give people a token once a year to make the changes. They can use their token right away or save their tokens and use it at a later time.

Gree picks a date. It can be your anniversary date or a specific date Gree decides upon, like Jan. 1st.

The token is issued on that day and is good for only 1 year. When the date comes around again the following year, all unused tokens expire and Gree issues new tokens, again good for only 1 year.

Everybody gets 1 chance per year to make changes as they see fit.

No one can abuse or hoard or buy too many tokens. The tokens are free and only good for 1 time use for a year.

How does that sound?

[Lift Ticket]

Give people a token once a year to make the changes. They can use their token right away or save their tokens and use it at a later time.

Gree picks a date. It can be your anniversary date or a specific date Gree decides upon, like Jan. 1st.

The token is issued on that day and is good for only 1 year. When the date comes around again the following year, all unused tokens expire and Gree issues new tokens, again good for only 1 year.

Everybody gets 1 chance per year to make changes as they see fit.

No one can abuse or hoard or buy too many tokens. The tokens are free and only good for 1 time use for a year.

How does that sound?

This is a great idea and fair to everyone!! +1

[robmurphy]

Tadaaah.................?????

[I Will Merc You]

A friendly bump, as to not get lost in the shuffle.

[Tadaaah]

No update on this right now. The teams focus are on other topics.

[Rolinz]

A friendly bump, as to not get lost in the shuffle.

Lets keep this one alive.

I think we can discuss the pros and cons of such a possibility to make changes to something that has become useless.

[robmurphy]

Lets keep this one alive.

I think we can discuss the pros and cons of such a possibility to make changes to something that has become useless.

Hey Rolinz

I'll bump it every couple of weeks

I guess it's fair when Tadaaah states they're working on other stuff like the update issues.

R

[Mcdoc]

Here is the argument I have in favor of refunding All Skill points to every single account that were spent on Attack and Defense bonuses :

When we started playing this game - we were told that the Attack / Defense skill points were part of some Ramdom Roll of a multiplier dice for both the attacker and defender and those points would come into play on the outcome of each Attack. I,will have to go look up and referemce the "Things we learned from Chef Pepe" where CCMark (Jarod) - the original Community Service Rep for Funzio - came in person to our SoCal Modern War meet-up and gave us some very informative answers to our very pointed questions on the mechanics of the game.


So those of us who paid attention to those explanations - began to plan our long term player accounts on which ever strategy we felt best suited our playing style. I personally am not one to do a lot of raiding so I focused over 300 skill points on defense to try and make myself an "untasty target" for those accounts with bigger stats that tried to take a bite out of my account. Others who were very aggressive Raiders placed a lot of points on Attack.

So based on what I've stated so far - we played the game the way YOU told us it was to be played.

Then comes along a lot of Hackers who manipulated their accounts to have over a million Attack points and over a million defense points. We were then told you tried and tried to close all of the holes in the game that allowed the Skill point hackers to manipulate their game - even one point dilsplaying the constantly changing Attack / Defense results after the Random Dice Roll / skill point results - which quickly allowed us as players to visually SEE the impact of the skill points and quickly spot those who were cheating the skill point algorithm.

So HERE is the part that has to be fair:

YOU changed the underlying mechanics of the game when you completely disabled the Attack / Defense Skill points thus changing the entire player investment in skill points up to that point.

We didn't change anything - you did - so given that fact - the only fair resolution over a year ago would have been to completely refund all skill points spent on Attack and Defense and allow us to place them where we wanted between the two remaining functioning skill point options : Energy / Stamina.

Some people may still hold on to those skill points in the hopes that some day - the developers will find a way to lock out skill point hackers and return the intended function to the game (which would actually bring a welcomed strategic Element back to the game) - in which case - perhaps another skill point reset would be appropriate.

So for anyone claiming a skill point reset would somemo's be "unfair" or somehow skew the dynamics of the game - GREE already did that to those of us who invested skill points before hackers caused those skill points to become irrelevant. We are now simply asking for the obvious / easy fix to this player in-Justice.

I am open to any Intellegent counter argument that would override the above explanation / logical solution.

[Mcdoc]

Here is the thread where CCMark (Jarod) came in person to the SoCal Meet-Up and gave us an advanced understanding of the role that Attack / Defense Skill points played in each Attack.


http://forums.gree.net/showthread.php?38449-Things-we-learned-From-Chef-Pepe-(aka-CCMark)&p=370427&viewfull=1#post370427




The word we got on the Skill points is that they are times a specific un-named multiplier that gets added to all of your final boosted stats - then there is the "random" multiplier added or subtracted after ALL that.

For argument's sake: Say your boosted Attack is 50k going up against someone with a boosted defense of 50k.

The attacker has say 90 to attack skill points and lets say the defender has a defense skill point accumulation of 110.

For our example - lets assume the multiplier is 500 - so ADD 45,000 to the attacker and 55,000 to the defender - so NOW the battle stats are 95k attack against 105k Defense

BUT WAIT: Now there is this TOTALLY RANDOM percent wheel that spins independently for each player - so for our example - lets say the attacker gets a -10% and the defender gets a +25%

So for the first battle - the end result is 85,500 attack against 125,125 defense and the defender WINS!

On the second battle - the RANDOM spin yields a + 30% to the attacker and a -20% to the defender for a final battle result of 123,500 and the defender ends up with 84,000 and this time the attacker wins.

THIS is the way i comprehended what Mark told us and my math is off the top of my head so forgive me if I'm off a little - but you get the point that the Skill points DO matter - but there is this "random" multiplier with each and every attack independently for each player that can totally change the end result.

Wheww - now chew on that for a minute and lets see some 5000 character analysis :)

Summary of the explanation if you don't want to wade through the entire thread